Turn for the worst

[underacloud]

I did not pressure her

Not deliberately.

I reacted emotionally instead of hiding my feelings in a moment of true shock.

Which placed pressure on her. Again, not deliberately. No one is trying to accuse you of being the bad guy here.

See it from my perspective

As I said, all we have is your perspective. You have my sympathy and prayers for your predicament, as does your wife for her issues.

 

[Jay417]

I have a sister that is just like your wife. She was close to our family until one day she just decided to cut us all put one by one and claim she was abused by first dad, them both parents, and eventually all of us siblings. She paints a very ugly picture of us and loves to twist things around for her benefit. Her first husband was her “savior” until he finally put his foot down and stood up for something that was important to him. She ran home to my parents (funny how they are perfect when she needs them) and stayed until she met husband number two. Long story short, she’s now on husband #5 and we are back to being shunned. Her husbands have all worked two jobs, done the house work, cooked, run the errands, and she spends her days doing exactly as she wishes. Eventually each one of them have been called abusive, over bearing ogres and made out to be sexual predators. I’m sure my sister has some sort of mental issues but she’s never been diagnosed with anything. She’s older than me (she was 10 when I was born) so I’m not sure what she was like as a child, but my older siblings say that she was normal until puberty and has never really matured beyond that. She does dress and behave like a teenager and she is now 45 years old. I don’t think there is anyway to really fix your situation. I’ve seen it in my own family and in other families in real life. It’s frustrating because if a man were to treat his wife like that it is no doubt labeled as abuse–and rightfully so. But when the woman is doing it so many people still turn it around on the man and somehow he is still blamed. My sister has been in numerous therapy sessions with each of her husbands and not a thing changes. It still ends up in her filing for divorce. You really deserve better and you should protect yourself. I pray several times daily for my sister but I’m so thankful I haven’t lived near her in years. I’m one of only three siblings who are still on her “good list” (out of 16 of us). I really hope things turn out well for you but honestly I don’t see it happening.

One more thing, my sister does have three children. She had them with husband #3 and it’s been very painful to watch them dragged around through all of this. They are ages 13-19 now and so messed up. They have no real chance in life. The boy is into drugs and the two girls are very promiscuous, including the 13 year old. They can’t relate at all to their same aged cousins. It breaks my heart seeing how it’s all worked out. Be grateful you don’t have to watch your children go through that kind of life.

My wife shares a few of those traits. She dyes her hair unnatural colors, pink, blue, purple etc…but dresses age appropriate. She likes to feel important at all times and never censors herself, as in talks loudly and uses bad language regardless of the crowd or location. Is openly rude to people, but freaks if someone is rude back. She is very immature in many ways, yet mature in others.

 

[DakiniArtist]

May I add to the chorus here?

You’re living in Crazy Town. She may be bipolar; sounds like a possibility. Please set boundaries for her, too. Don’t be doing “all of” the housework, cooking, et cetera. Not healthy. You guys are, ostensibly, a partnership. Coddling her is NOT loving her. Everyone needs boundaries and discipline.

Counseling, counseling. Please don’t bring kiddos into this! I pray for the best possible outcome for you both. However, honey, I’m with the others in that she sounds like she’s already checked out. Regardless, you both have a long, hard road ahead. Period.

Praying for some hardcore miracles.

 

[pianistclare]

My wife shares a few of those traits. She dyes her hair unnatural colors, pink, blue, purple etc…but dresses age appropriate. She likes to feel important at all times and never censors herself, as in talks loudly and uses bad language regardless of the crowd or location. Is openly rude to people, but freaks if someone is rude back. She is very immature in many ways, yet mature in others.

So…how did you meet? How long did you date? What attracts you to her the most?
What are some of her good qualities? Where do you see yourselves in 5 years?

Praying for a great marriage counselor for you both.

 

[Jay417]

So…how did you meet? How long did you date? What attracts you to her the most?
What are some of her good qualities? Where do you see yourselves in 5 years?

Praying for a great marriage counselor for you both.

We met in college, she was a roommate of a friend and we were introduced and hit it off immediately. She and I became friends and about a year later began dating. Six months into it we became engaged and had over a two year engagement. So we did not rush to the altar. I fell for her kindness and her love of life. I am a cautious person by nature and she helped me out of my shell. I loved and still love how much she loves animals and will never let anything go hungry. I love that she is always my champion, beside me through any challenge. She is an amazing artist. I loved that we both felt the call to adoption. I loved her devotion to the church. Physically, she has the most beautiful eyes and smile.

When we met she did not have wild hair, she did not act immature, she had a job, college, and kept up her room. It wasn’t until after marriage she wanted to experiment with other ideas. She said she felt she was too grown up suddenly and needed to do a few young things.

Up until recently we both saw children in the future, we talked and planned, and no it wasn’t all me. Now I see myself finishing my Master’s Degree and she wants to go back to school. I see us possibly moving with her job, a goal we both had since it will give us the chance to live on the coast. I see more travel for us both as a couple. Beyond that I don’t know. I hope we can adopt an older child like she mentioned literally five years from now and not a moment sooner. I see counseling and help.

 

[Jay417]

May I add to the chorus here?

You’re living in Crazy Town. She may be bipolar; sounds like a possibility. Please set boundaries for her, too. Don’t be doing “all of” the housework, cooking, et cetera. Not healthy. You guys are, ostensibly, a partnership. Coddling her is NOT loving her. Everyone needs boundaries and discipline.

Counseling, counseling. Please don’t bring kiddos into this! I pray for the best possible outcome for you both. However, honey, I’m with the others in that she sounds like she’s already checked out. Regardless, you both have a long, hard road ahead. Period.

Praying for some hardcore miracles.

That’s what I said before and people thought I was some being to stern and controlling.

I plan to take her to a psychiatrist as well as a counselor for both of us.

I don’t think she’s checked out, I think she is trying to push me away so she doesn’t have to admit she has any fault in the whole kids debacle. She does that, she has trouble seeing herself as wrong about anything. In our marriage she has probably apologized less than 10 times, and always with, I’m sorry but you caused it, or I’m sorry, but it’s your fault.

Since you mentioned boundaries, I think it is okay for my wife to go and have a fun experience with her girlfriends like a concert sometimes, but not go to a singles scene, like bars, clubs etc… Some people agree, others tell me that anytime a married woman goes out with friends it is trouble. Where is the middle ground? I feel I’m fair, and my wife told me the same thing, She thanked me for her time out, and proved she could be trusted. As a married man, I have no desire to go out with single friends, but my best friend is single and celibate, yes I’m serious, he is celibate by choice. He and I do things like bowling, fishing and church stuff. She is ok with that

 

[Jay417]

One final thought for now. She did say she would stay open to children once we resume having a sex life. If she does that, is that still ok with the church? I mean if I agree to not try for kids, but keep my marriage open for it, I’m still in the clear correct? She also promised that if she did end up able to carry a baby she would never seek an abortion. She might hand it over to me and run and hide, but would not kill the child according to her.

 

[GEddie]

One final thought for now. She did say she would stay open to children once we resume having a sex life. If she does that, is that still ok with the church? I mean if I agree to not try for kids, but keep my marriage open for it, I’m still in the clear correct? She also promised that if she did end up able to carry a baby she would never seek an abortion. She might hand it over to me and run and hide, but would not kill the child according to her.

Good enough!

It is not necessary to “try” for children at all, only that the marriage be accepting of them.

God Bless, you are still in the ice, but it now seems you may not end up in the lifeboat after all. Forget the passenger list for now.

ICXC NIKA.

 

[Lorelei12]

One final thought for now. She did say she would stay open to children once we resume having a sex life. If she does that, is that still ok with the church? I mean if I agree to not try for kids, but keep my marriage open for it, I’m still in the clear correct? She also promised that if she did end up able to carry a baby she would never seek an abortion. She might hand it over to me and run and hide, but would not kill the child according to her.

I mentioned this earlier, but there is no moral obligation to “try” for children. This is why I have been confused about this whole thread. While it seems your wife has many issues to work through, it seems as though you think that unless you are actively trying (by way of charting, monitors, and the like) that she isn’t “open to children”. If you’re intimate and not contracepting, that’s being “open to children”. Up until a more recent post, you’d said that she was not refusing relations. If that’s true, she’s been open to having kids the whole time, regardless of what she’s been telling you.

 

[Jay417]

I mentioned this earlier, but there is no moral obligation to “try” for children. This is why I have been confused about this whole thread. While it seems your wife has many issues to work through, it seems as though you think that unless you are actively trying (by way of charting, monitors, and the like) that she isn’t “open to children”. If you’re intimate and not contracepting, that’s being “open to children”. Up until a more recent post, you’d said that she was not refusing relations. If that’s true, she’s been open to having kids the whole time, regardless of what she’s been telling you.

Yes and no, she often avoided sex during her fertile peak, and when I realized that was happening she started being “sick or tired” during those days. Some months she came to me and wanted to have sex while fertile, so it was a game of chance. Now, I got upset when she told me she would not try anymore at all, and that sex was still okay but not while fertile. I made my peace with that, but when she decided no to kids all together ever that was different.

 

[Jay417]

Update:

More truth out today. She is coming to me to talk, I am listening. I am not bringing stuff up myself.

She is focused on “feeling young” saying she needs a weekly trip out with friends without me, that she needs to feel she needs the freedom to decide “in the moment” if she wants to go out, rather than check with me about plans or obligations first. Said her best friends no longer live nearby or have kids now, so they don’t have time for her. She wants to go out and meet new friends to have fun with separate from our shared circle of friends and friends from church. She needs her own private friends that she doesn’t have to include me in.

She says marriage was a step that meant less time for friends, and she thought she was okay with that, but now feels differently. Also, said to be honest she sees kids as the final straw that “takes her youth” and guarantees no more “friends and fun” other than fun with me or the friends we share from church. Says we have great fun together, but she needs to be able to have fun away from me as well. Told me that having kids means giving up any sense of selfishness and she is not ready for that and that she needs me to accept that. She said to me, “stop thinking about the future, just live for today and let things happen as they will.”

I need to add this is a side of her that is new to me, before when I encouraged her to keep relationships with friends she said, “I just want to be with you” or “I am not into the club or bar scene, I like being at home or just going to dinner” I am not saying this is a bad desire, just that I wasn’t aware of it. I told her that, and she said, “I was afraid to tell you, I figured you wouldn’t approve, or would tell me I was silly” I told her the truth, “If you had of asked me about this I would have said, I trust you, go have fun and call me to give me a heads up.” “Our plans should always come first, but if you are free and want to go, then go. My limits are simply nowhere dangerous or singles clubs.” She was surprised, and apologized for assuming things without asking.

 

[pianistclare]

Marriage counseling. It’s very immature to expect to not fill your spouse in on your plans daily…she’s not single anymore.
But if she’s dying to get away, that’s a red flag that she feels smothered.

At any rate…, only a good priest and marriage counselor will be of any assistance to either of you.

 

[Jay417]

Marriage counseling. It’s very immature to expect to not fill your spouse in on your plans daily…she’s not single anymore.
But if she’s dying to get away, that’s a red flag that she feels smothered.

At any rate…, only a good priest and marriage counselor will be of any assistance to either of you.

I agree. I don’t like this sudden immaturity. I’m waiting for an opening for counseling that is hopefully coming in a day or two.

She is encouraging me to go out more too. Saying all I do is work and do church and kofc functions. I told her I like coming home. She says she does too, but doesn’t like to feel obligated to always be home if she isn’t working

She said she doesn’t feel smothered. Just that she doesn’t have a friend of her own to talk to or see. She said she misses having another woman to confide in that she can trust.

 

[sdeco]

I’m surprised no one has mentioned this, but to me it sounds like this is a pretty clear case of a marriage that was invalid from the start. A permanent intention of never having children means the marriage is not valid.

 

[Loly_Maria]

I’m surprised no one has mentioned this, but to me it sounds like this is a pretty clear case of a marriage that was invalid from the start. A permanent intention of never having children means the marriage is not valid.

IIRC, OP mentioned that they had both wanted children when they first got married.

 

[Jay417]

IIRC, OP mentioned that they had both wanted children when they first got married.

Yes we did, in fact she was adamant that children were a major life goal for her, specifically children through adoption.

We scored the same score on the focus exam in regards to children. I had no idea she had even the slightest reservation.

Now she acts as though she never wanted them, and cannot understand why I got so upset at being told that she decided no kids for our marriage.

Today she told me that she had debated leaving our marriage a few weeks back because of how upset I became over her decision. I am being 100% honest when I say my reaction was one of tears and confusion, not insults or even yelling. I asked if she had lied to me all along and she said yes, and I said what I am supposed to do here? What is going on? Then she said I was a bad spouse for being unable to immediately support her decision. Then I told her I felt she broke our sacrament and that I couldn’t be sexual for a while. This came up because she actually insinuated she wanted sex that same night she said no kids or a divorce!

She asked why did I always equate sex with children, and I told her I considered sex a multi faceted thing that included love, intimacy, pleasure, and the possibility of life. She said for her it was love, intimacy, and pleasure, and the possibility of life was in the back of her mind, but certainly not in the forefront, and could easily be removed.

 

[Jay417]

From bad to worse…

Today I found out I may have cancer. Preliminary results suggest yes, but I won’t know until next week for certain. If not cancer then another disease that destroys the kidneys regardless.

I told my wife, I had no choice since she saw me go to the doctor. She asked the details, gave me a hug and said, “I’ll be here as much as I can, but if it is a long and drawn out thing I will need you to go stay at your parent’s home or let me go stay with friends sometimes.”

I said, this disease may kill me. She said, I know, and I hope not, but if it does you have insurance with the KofC right? How much?

I was there for this woman through so many things, including illnesses that lingered for months, a broken leg that made me have to wait on her for weeks, and a thyroid cancer scare.

 

[Sunbreak]

From bad to worse…

Today I found out I may have cancer. Preliminary results suggest yes, but I won’t know until next week for certain. If not cancer then another disease that destroys the kidneys regardless.

I told my wife, I had no choice since she saw me go to the doctor. She asked the details, gave me a hug and said, “I’ll be here as much as I can, but if it is a long and drawn out thing I will need you to go stay at your parent’s home or let me go stay with friends sometimes.”

I said, this disease may kill me. She said, I know, and I hope not, but if it does you have insurance with the KofC right? How much?

I was there for this woman through so many things, including illnesses that lingered for months, a broken leg that made me have to wait on her for weeks, and a thyroid cancer scare.

I feel bad that you are going through this. I hope the health issue turns out not to be as severe as you suspect. Your wife does not seem supportive at all. She seems only to be thinking of herself and how it will cramp her style.

 

[underacloud]

I’m sorry to hear about this.

I strongly suggest you and your wife avoid any serious conversations outside of therapy for a while. Your communication has become dysfunctional and you need someone to mediate it.

If what you say about your wife and your relationship is accurate, I fear this will not end well.

 

[pianistclare]

This^^^.
Step back from the drama. Do as your doctor advises. Meet with the priest asap.
Praying for you.