Two more cardinals back Communion for divorced and remarried

[PRmerger]

I hope this is a facetious post. My head explodes when women think the way to make themselves stronger is by getting men to treat them better. If my strength as a woman depends on you, a man, controlling your desire to dominate and control me, I am still At your mercy. Women must be taught to empower themselves through strength of mind and courage. Women may be physically weaker than men, but that does not make them weak.

In the animal world, the alpha is not the physically strongest, the alpha is the one with Inner strength and force of will.

Is there any person in the bible stronger than Mary?

Yes. Mystical Seeker was being facetious.

 

[ProVobis]

The Church allows divorce, TEPO.

I think what you mean is that the Church recognizes civil divorce. In fact, it requires it before any annulment proceedings get underway. The Church doesn’t perform divorces.

 

[PRmerger]

I think what you mean is that the Church recognizes civil divorce. In fact, it requires it before any annulment proceedings get underway. The Church doesn’t perform divorces.

What other kind of divorce is there, besides “civil” divorce?

And no one has posited that the Church performs divorces.

 

[ProVobis]

Or would this be if they went out and had unmarried sex after divorce – would that be the same sin as having unmarried sex before the first marriage? hmmm…

Things get complicated with third-party involvement. I believe there are separate questionnaires for them in the annulment process. Needless to say, things are much simpler if there are no extramarital affairs and even simple dating, but that would be rare indeed. Parents and friends always seem to put the “move on with your life” type pressures.

 

[Mystical_Seeker]

I hope this is a facetious post. My head explodes when women think the way to make themselves stronger is by getting men to treat them better. If my strength as a woman depends on you, a man, controlling your desire to dominate and control me, I am still At your mercy. Women must be taught to empower themselves through strength of mind and courage. Women may be physically weaker than men, but that does not make them weak.

In the animal world, the alpha is not the physically strongest, the alpha is the one with Inner strength and force of will.

Is there any person in the bible stronger than Mary?

I’m reading a great book on feminism, that shows these people for whom they are. Christina Hoff Summer considers herself an “equality feminist” but says those who have interjected themselves as spokes-people for all women, are what she calls “gender feminists.” It would blow your mind how ridiculous and/or vile some of it is. The whole platform is based on women who are “angry” and “struggling.” Funny thing is those who claim loudest to be “angry and struggling” are making one pretty nice living for themselves, telling women what they should and should think so that they may become more independent. :crazy:

There is a “look inside” at amazon…

Who Stole Feminism?: How Women Have Betrayed Women by Christina Hoff Sommers, 1995.

If the “angry and struggling” read her book, they would no doubt become even angrier, and struggle even harder to make sense out of their stupid agendas.

MS

 

[1newcatholic]

Is there any person in the bible stronger than Mary?

I can think of exactly One.

 

[1newcatholic]

I didn’t flip through ALL 51 pages of the conversation, so maybe this question has already been asked.

What does it mean, when you say “NO – I will NOT accept communion for… X”?

You’re going to leave the Catholic Church if they change the rules a little bit for some people?

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

I didn’t flip through ALL 51 pages of the conversation, so maybe this question has already been asked.

What does it mean, when you say “NO – I will NOT accept communion for… X”?

You’re going to leave the Catholic Church if they change the rules a little bit for some people?

Uh, that is not a little bit. If the Eucharist is the source and summit of our faith and Jesus himself, and we allow sin to desecrate Him, that is a HUGE change of the “rules”

 

[1newcatholic]

Uh, that is not a little bit. If the Eucharist is the source and summit of our faith and Jesus himself, and we allow sin to desecrate Him, that is a HUGE change of the “rules”

So if they change something you REALLY care about (I assume you must personally affected by this rule/rule-change) THEN you’ll leave the Church?

 

[Brandall]

So if they change something you REALLY care about (I assume you must personally affected by this rule/rule-change) THEN you’ll leave the Church?

Just for the record, I’m planning to go nowhere. None of us have any idea whether something significant will be affected or even if there is an intent. Some of the things discussed, here and elsewhere, would likely damage the reputation of the Church. The changes would not personally affect me but the damage to the church would.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

So if they change something you REALLY care about (I assume you must personally affected by this rule/rule-change) THEN you’ll leave the Church?

Well yeah, that is kind of the idea. If the Church denied the divinity of Jesus, if they changed the doctrine of Mary’s Assumption. Or any other number of things that are distinctly Catholic then yes, the Church would be shown to be false. Why would anyone stay with something that was false? Either Marriage is indisolvable or it is not. Either we believe that the Eucharist is Christ or we don’t. The good news is that the Church is not about to change her beliefs. We have argued and split over if Christ was God before. And St Nicholas Punched out Arius. We have argued about marriage and adultery before and the King of England Started his own Church to satisfy his sexual urges.

And that is what this all comes down to. Will we worship our God, or our bodies?

 

[sttcatherinefan]

Okay no one is stating that marriage isn’t inviolable. This includes Cardinal Kasper. The issue the Church is faced with is how does it minister to people who are divorced and civilly remarried. Right now, we have an annulment process. No one including many bishops, except a few canon lawyers like Burke, like the current process. Most divorced Catholics opt to not even get an annulment. It is a very legalistic and bureaucratic process. Depending on the dioceses, it can take years. It takes even longer outside the U.S. This is very true of many urban dioceses with lots of Catholics. Depending on the dioceses as well, the level of service varies drastically. There are reasons why an annulment might not be possible in specific cases

The current system is quite dysfunctional. Just look at the numerous threads about annulments. And I think that we all know people hurt by the current system. The issue is whether we use more duct tape to hold together a system that doesn’t work or whether we radically change it. I think that the latter is a better option because it is very easy to revert to the legalistic system. I remember a few years back the bishops arguing about tightening up the annulment grounds. In fact, I think that Benedict endorsed tightening up the grounds for annulments two months before his resignation. So just changing the current system could lead to whiplash.

 

[muffindell]

The Church allows divorce, TEPO.

If civil divorce remains the only possible way of ensuring certain legal rights, the care of the children, or the protection of inheritance, it can be tolerated and does not constitute a moral offense.CCC 2383

It does not allow divorce and remarriage.

I think that Tepo is correct. The RC church does not allow divorce as such, unless you have been able to get an annulment you are still married forever no matter what your civil marital position is.

 

[PRmerger]

I think that Tepo is correct. The RC church does not allow divorce as such, unless you have been able to get an annulment you are still married forever no matter what your civil marital position is.

How do you respond to this, then, muffindell, which is a quote directly from the Catechism which states that divorce IS permitted?

If civil divorce remains the only possible way of ensuring certain legal rights, the care of the children, or the protection of inheritance, it can be tolerated and does not constitute a moral offense.–2383

Divorce is permitted.

That’s what the Catechism says.

 

[PRmerger]

I think that Tepo is correct. The RC church does not allow divorce as such, unless you have been able to get an annulment you are still married forever no matter what your civil marital position is.

And the Catholic position is that no one is married “forever”.

Death ends all marriages.

Please learn your Catholic faith a bit better.

 

[PRmerger]

And the Catholic position is that no one is married “forever”.

Death ends all marriages.

Please learn your Catholic faith a bit better.

Again, from our Catechism, muffindell:

Between the baptized, “a ratified and consummated marriage cannot be dissolved by any human power or for any reason** other than death**.” -2382

So NOT forever.

 

[muffindell]

How do you respond to this, then, muffindell, which is a quote directly from the Catechism which states that divorce IS permitted?

If civil divorce remains the only possible way of ensuring certain legal rights, the care of the children, or the protection of inheritance, it can be tolerated and does not constitute a moral offense.–2383

Divorce is permitted.

That’s what the Catechism says.

Yes you are correct! Civil divorce is allowed. However, you are still married in the eyes of the church/God until you die, unless annulment is forthcoming.

 

[PRmerger]

Yes you are correct! Civil divorce is allowed. However, you are still married in the eyes of the church/God until you die, unless annulment is forthcoming.

Egg-zactly.

 

[PRmerger]

Yes you are correct! Civil divorce is allowed. However, you are still married in the eyes of the church/God until you die, unless annulment is forthcoming.

Egg-zactly.

And divorce and re-marriage is NOT allowed.

Why? Why would the Church decree this when she has gotten NOTHING but grief and disrespect over not permitting folks to “re-marry” in the Catholic Church?

Why indeed.

Did she just make this rule up…just to be…

mean?

Or does she really feel like she cannot do anything but proclaim that which Christ proclaimed…

even if it’s un-palatable. Dislike-able. Not how we would do things if we were the creators of the world?

 

[muffindell]

And divorce and re-marriage is NOT allowed.

Why? Why would the Church decree this when she has gotten NOTHING but grief and disrespect over not permitting folks to “re-marry” in the Catholic Church?

Why indeed.

Did she just make this rule up…just to be…

mean?

Or does she really feel like she cannot do anything but proclaim that which Christ proclaimed…

even if it’s un-palatable. Dislike-able. Not how we would do things if we were the creators of the world?

Well I’m in eternal sin because I remarried. In effect I have been booted out of the RC church, I cannot receive the most important sacrament of HC, My head is hung low, sorry if I don’t fit in the club through no fault of my own and ultimately in the search for love, for that I do not seek forgiveness. Alas, at least I am still Christian and can hold my head up high. I want no part of a church that cannot see past this huge problem that effects so many lives.