U.S. Bishops Call for Prayers, Pledge to Work for Comprehensive Immigration Bill

[meeshy]

FEAR? FEAR? FEAR!!

1)Yes, fear. This is the quote I was responding to: “If we help everyone, and allow anyone to enter, then we will be a third world country as well. It won’t be long before our infrastructure collapses under the weight.”

2)There is nothing “wrong” with me. I happen to believe the current immigration laws are unjust, and I’d like to see them changed.

Peace,
Meeshy

 

[Godi]

This quote is from the letter of Father John Trigilio to the Gang of 18, dated May 22, 2007.

However, it is also 100% applicable in the immigration reform debate:

“Any and all civil laws which contradict the Divine and/or the Natural Law are invalid and have no obligation upon anyone. If that were not the case, then slavery, segregation and anti-Semitism would have to be tolerated if some legislature or court upheld laws supporting these atrocities. Thankfully, even the evil of apartheid is finally gone, though it had been legal for centuries in South Africa.”

Fr. John Trigilio, Jr., Ph.D., was ordained a priest for the Diocese of Harrisburg in 1988. He is a member of the Board of Directors of the Confraternity of Catholic Clergy and Editor of the Confraternity’s international newsletter. He is a cooperator in Opus Dei, and the founder of the Fraternity of Mary (Fraternitas Marialis Regina Cleri). He appears regularly on EWTN.

Peace,
Meeshy

Then he should know that the golden rule is all 10 comandments into one. If one commandment is violated, you do not love your neighbor. This includes the 4th commandment. Vatican II did not contradict this & Father Trigilio should not either.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

My point, in quoting Father Trigilio, is that our current laws are unjust according to God, but they are just according to man.

Father gives the examples of slavery, segregation, and anti-Semitism in his letter as unjust laws which existed in the past and were enforced by our government and other world governments.

I included that section of his letter specifically to point out that nobody breaking those past laws was truly a criminal, but the governments arrested them, tried them, and punished them as criminals, or in many cases ignored due process and just killed them or tortured them. Those who aided the so-called criminals were also punished, killed, or tortured.

This is exactly what’s going on today. Opponents to immigration hide behind the existing laws, claiming that certain illegals are criminals and those who employ them are criminals also. I don’t see it that way and neither do our Bishops.

Our U.S. Bishops as a whole have declared our current immigration laws unjust. They mention the words “unjust laws” many times on their Justice for Immigrants website. Indeed, even the name of the website indicates that justice is lacking for immigrants.

Feel free to argue the point, but neither I nor our Bishops nor the millions of illegal immigrants and their supporters will change our opinions.

Peace,
Meeshy

So I take it that you believe there is no morality in the concept of a sovereign nation, and that protecting the borders of such a nation, is immoral?

Jim

 

[kellicouch77]

I am impressed that many of my fellow Catholics have come forward to express their opposition to illegal immigration. I am also guessing that these same brave souls are part of the 80% majority of Americans opposed to illegals. Oh, wait, that was just a poll, not representative of Americans. Even though, Quinipac and Gallup are in the “poll making” business.

You want to see how great unfettered immigration works in the rest of the world? Take a look at France, where Muslim immigrants have killed police officers, vandalized homes and businesses, and destroyed cities in that beautiful country. They refused to assimilate, and have instituted sharia law in some cities. While America does not have the problem with Muslim immigrants, we have illegals running across the border with no respect for America’s laws. An example would be to look at crime committed by illegals in border towns, or glimpse at the amount of illegals in the state prison system in California. Look at the amount of illegals who rush the border for the free medical care and welfare benefits. They attend our schools, which cater to them, offering classes in their native language instead of insisting that they learn English.

A change must be made now. Close the border, build the fence, cut off the welfare benefits, free medical care, and access to our public schools! Deport the illegals!

 

[rlg94086]

Who is going to enforce this? How are we going to track them down? What are the penalties for not obeying?

Read the bill.

When Criminals pay no attention to the current laws, what makes you think that they will welcome & obey the new ones? Scoflaws and criminals, what makes you think they will be desirable citizens?

You know…at this point I could care less what happens to this bill.

If it passes, I hope and pray that it is acted on. If it doesn’t, I will tune out the people who killed it, as things get worse.

 

[rlg94086]

A change must be made now. Close the border, build the fence, cut off the welfare benefits, free medical care, and access to our public schools! Deport the illegals!

Guess what? None of this will happen. So, do you think under the status quo, we will have more illegal aliens or less in the future?

Don’t let that keep you from digging your heels in, though. Instead, keep complaining…and take Spanish lessons.

 

[kellicouch77]

I have contacted many Senators and Congressmen about killing this bill. I am hoping that the old adage “squeakiest wheel gets the grease” is true. I support such candidates as Tom Tancredo and Duncan Hunter.

I speak Spanish- not quite fluently, but I have one more semester at Baylor and I will be considered as such.

I believe the illegals will continue to come across the southern border until another terrorist attack. If it can be proven that they came across the southern border without being stopped, then something might be done.

 

[Dee_Dee_King]

it is unjust to create a permanent underclass in society. illegal immigration as it is now is doing just that.

the just thing to do is post the national gaurd along the boarder with mexico to force immigration to occur legally. it’s best for them and us.

this way we can screen them for diseases and weed out the criminals and terrorists and make sure they have a basic understanding of written and spoken english. as for the all of the illegal migrants here now, we should deport them and fine them for breaking the law.

once they naturalize, they can partake in all the privilages america affords its citizens. most importantly, they will be protected to earn a fare wage.

this will never happen because politicans listen to big buisness and cater to the underclass for their support and votes.

 

[Franze]

The bishops of the Catholic Church aren´t right here, there is an excessive immigration and we need more technology not more immigrants, in addition, the immigrants have less wage that american people and the immigration is a discouragement for not developing themselves like in Mejico happens.

 

[Al_Masetti]

The proposed bill allows only 24 hours for a criminal background check. The process takes much much longer and there is already a huge backlog. Right now, it would take about two years for a criminal background check.

There is no reason for the attempted secrecy in this debate and there is no reason for any hurry in pushing the vote on this bill.

There is insufficient time to read the 300+ pages of all the small print in the immigration bill.

Why 300+ pages???

This is a poorly conceived bill and needs to be defeated.

 

[meeshy]

The 4th commandment? Honor your father and mother? Depends on which version of the commandments you’re looking at.

I assume you mean “Thou shalt not steal.” If so, this does not apply to illegal immigrants just because they cross the border or overstay their visa. Those civil offenses have nothing to do with stealing.

 

[meeshy]

I have contacted many Senators and Congressmen about killing this bill. I am hoping that the old adage “squeakiest wheel gets the grease” is true. I support such candidates as Tom Tancredo and Duncan Hunter.

Tancredo? Hmm el apellido me parece muy hispano

Peace,
Meeshy

 

[mary_bobo]

it is unjust to create a permanent underclass in society. illegal immigration as it is now is doing just that.

the just thing to do is post the national gaurd along the boarder with mexico to force immigration to occur legally. it’s best for them and us.

this way we can screen them for diseases and weed out the criminals and terrorists and make sure they have a basic understanding of written and spoken english. as for the all of the illegal migrants here now, we should deport them and fine them for breaking the law.

once they naturalize, they can partake in all the privilages america affords its citizens. most importantly, they will be protected to earn a fare wage.

this will never happen because politicans listen to big buisness and cater to the underclass for their support and votes.

I agree with much of what you say except the part about “big business”. I think many more of these illegals are employed by small businesses trying to make a few bucks for themselves i.e. landscapers, roofers, unskilled construction workers, day laborers, etc.

 

[mary_bobo]

No, it shows that 80% and 92% of **those polled **(1000-5000 people, as I said earlier) want tougher laws or more border security.

Then we should predicate any poll, political or otherwise, as a percent this way or that was “of those polled”. Give me a break!

 

[meeshy]

Then we should predicate any poll, political or otherwise, as a percent this way or that was “of those polled”. Give me a break!

Personally, I don’t give much credence to polls, commentaries, or much of anything the media has to say. We are a media-driven, media-frenzied society, and I for one choose not to involve myself in such hyperbole.

And yes, usually a poll will be qualified by a sentence similar to “of the 1000 people polled, 40% say…” It’s fairly common.

Peace,
Meeshy

 

[Godi]

The 4th commandment? Honor your father and mother? Depends on which version of the commandments you’re looking at.

I assume you mean “Thou shalt not steal.” If so, this does not apply to illegal immigrants just because they cross the border or overstay their visa. Those civil offenses have nothing to do with stealing.

HELLO..... Meeshy..... I was wrong numericly..... Thou shalt not STEAL........ Obey thy Father & Mother............ You know that when you examine youir conscience every night, that this would include stealing someone elses identity (SSN), filing fraudulent information & obidience not only to your parents but laws & Authorities. Obedience.:confused:

 

[meeshy]

HELLO… Meeshy… I was wrong numericly… Thou shalt not STEAL… Obey thy Father & Mother… You know that when you examine youir conscience every night, that this would include stealing someone elses identity (SSN), filing fraudulent information & obidience not only to your parents but laws & Authorities. Obedience.

I am absolutely positive that our Bishops are aware of the ten commandments, and are also aware that every illegal alien in this country broke a law to get here or to stay here.

Still, the Bishops have declared the current immigration laws to be unjust. How can the entire USCCB be wrong? Do you really think that is possible? I do not.

Also, not all illegals have broken laws aside from crossing the border or staying past their visa expiration date.

Some illegals don’t work while they are here (wives, children, elderly), and so have no reason to pay taxes.

Some illegals actually do pay taxes legally, by using an “individual tax identification number.” The IRS issues ITINs to help individuals comply with the U.S. tax laws, and to provide a means to efficiently process and account for tax returns and payments for those not eligible for Social Security Numbers.

Some illegals never drive here, nor sign papers of any kind, nor use false identification, nor apply for public assistance, nor shirk their bills.

It’s not fair to say that because a person breaks one law (an injust law), they must have broken other laws or they must be dishonest somehow. That’s not true.

Besides that, and returning to the ten commandments, Jesus said the greatest commandment–surpassing the original ten–is to love God with all your heart, mind, and soul, and to love your neighbor as yourself. Therefore we forgive. Therefore we do not label people as criminals for trying to feed their families. Therefore we do not label people as criminals for having crossed our border but done nothing else illegal while they were here.

I have broken laws in my life. I am not a criminal. I know God forgives me and gives me a chance to amend my ways. We, too, must forgive and allow others to amend their ways.

Peace,
Meeshy

 

[kellicouch77]

Meeshy made a comment about those illegals who are here that don’t work, and don’t pay taxes (with those pesky fraudulent SSN’s). Interesting point that proves my argument about the drain on our infrastructure.

These same illegals get welfare benefits that should only be accessible to citizens, such as food stamps, public housing, and medicaid. Those same children get free lunch and a free education in our over-extended public school systems.

With reference to “Thou Shall Not Steal”, we can add that one bout coveting the neighbor’s goods. Those who sneak in come here to take what is not theirs- that elusive American Dream. If they were to enter legally, then they would be entitled to seek the American dream, since they fraudulently entered, often with forged documents and fake SSN’s they are breaking a few of the 10 commandments.

I would also like to make note of how many illegals enter in with communicable diseases. Near the border, many towns are seeing a rise in diseases that are prevalent in third world countries. Some diseases, like TB are on the rise because of the illegals who come to America.

 

[meeshy]

These same illegals get welfare benefits that should only be accessible to citizens, such as food stamps, public housing, and medicaid. Those same children get free lunch and a free education in our over-extended public school systems.

From the Medicaid website: “As a general rule, only **qualified aliens **may be eligible for coverage. In addition, some immigrants cannot be eligible for coverage for five years from the date they enter the Country as a qualified alien. Finally, in determining the eligibility of some immigrants, the income and resources of the immigrant’s sponsor must be counted in determining the immigrant’s eligibility.”

From the Food Stamp website: "Non-citizens that are in the U.S. temporarily, such as students, are not eligible. "

From the H.U.D. website: " Public housing is limited to low-income families and individuals. An HA determines your eligibility based on: 1) annual gross income; 2) whether you qualify as elderly, a person with a disability, or as a family; and 3) U.S. citizenship or eligible immigration status. "

Just about the only public assistance an illegal immigrant can get is school lunch and W.I.C., both of which leave a lot to be desired. I have experience with both programs. They’re pretty poor.

As far as overburdened schools are concerned, it depends on the demographics. Not all schools are struggling, even in areas with an influx of illegal immigrants. In matters of funding, the U.S. government has always had a problem funding our schools, even since I was in elementary school in the late 1960’s. This is nothing new and it has nothing to do with illegal immigrants.

Peace,
Meeshy

 

[kellicouch77]

When illegals use fraudulent documents, such as SSN’s and other legal paperwork, they can easily get other welfare benefits. As for medical care, they do indeed get medical cards- my best friend works for an OB/GYN that accepts them, and numerous patients are illegals that do not speak English.

In reference to the schools: When schools have to make accomodations for non-English speakers, valuable dollars are taken away from citizens to provide for the education of illegals. They do not pay into the education system- even if they do use fake SSN’s, they still aren’t paying into the system.

Widespread fraud exists in the welfare system. Implying that the illegals are here only for work, and not for the welfare system is a foolish statement. Why else would they go to great lengths to procure the fraudulent documents? It would be foolish to assume otherwise.