U.S. bishops: Vote your conscience Catholics urged to weigh stands on all issues

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Please keep in mind the SUPREME COURT, fellow Catholics, when voting in November.
8 out of the last 10 Supreme Court Juustices were appointed by one party and that party is not Pro-Life. Roe V. Wade should be sad history by now, but it is not. I left that party 16 years ago and right now there is nothing to bring me back.
 
Ok FAMILY PLANNING is the duty of BOTH men and women, so you can’t lay all the blame on Catholic women. Look into Christopher West’s Books to better find out how Catholics are called to be in marriage.

I recommend also listening to talks given by Professor Janet Smith to better understand what contraception has done to our society.

Anyone who supports abortion and contraception hold some responsability as do all that say or do nothing.
 
My understanding is the politicans in the USA are not telling Catholic women that they must have an abortion or that they must use contraception. They are simply saying that a law criminalising aritificial birth contraol would not be well received. And judging by the responses and accusations against me here, it looks to me like the politicians who say that a law criminalising artificial birth control would not be well recieved are correct.
How many people here would be in favor of the death penalty for either the use of abortifacient contraceptive devices or for a Catholic woman who chooses to have an abortion? She is taking a human life, correct? Then why not have the death penalty or at the very least, life imprisonment without parole for these Catholic women?
Perhaps by imposing capital punishment, this crime could be done away with? Is that the best approach for this?
I would say that people, and in particular, Catholic women have to take more personal responsibility for their actions and not go around blaming politicians for not passing laws criminalising these things?
Ok. This is getting redundant, so I’ll make my points and not bother with this thread again.

First point: Catholics (not just Catholic women) need to be more educated regarding the Church’s teachings and the alternatives to birth control.

Second point: A Catholic who wants to be true to Catholic teaching cannot deliberately choose to support a pro-choice candidate when there is a pro-life candidate available. To do so would be a mortal sin, and self-contradictory. Supporting a pro-life candidate does not mean that you want the woman obtaining the abortion to be punished, let alone punished so severely. The two are different.

Third point: Abortion should be illegal. I’m not addressing exceptions in this point. Should the punishment be death? No. A Catholic would not support that either. Should the punishment be life in jail or a long jail term? No, of course not. Yes, abortion is murder, but there are almost always extenuating circumstances surrounding abortion that warrant mercy. The expectant mother going to the clinic is not going because she enjoys killing the life within her. If she does, then a just punishment should be had.

Forth point: Even if the politician over reacts and punishes abortion (or even contraception) with death, or life in prison, can we use the punishment to justify a law allowing abortion? As Catholics, we do not have that luxury. We must vote to preserve life, and the souls of others, or else risk our own eternal damnation. The woman who chooses to kill her unborn child in violation of a law, chooses to do so. She will have to square that with God later.

Put it this way.
Scenario 1: Mr. Catholic does not want a law criminalizing abortion because he fears punishing the tortured women seeking them. So, he votes for a candidate who will not ban abortion. The woman he seeks to protect gets an abortion. None of them seeks forgiveness. How many souls are likely to go to hell? At least 4: the voter, the politician placed there by the voter who votes to support abortion, the woman who gets the abortion, and the doctor performing the abortion. Now add to that all those who continue aborting and contracepting as if it was no big deal.

Scenario 2: Now, let’s look at the alternative. Mr. Catholic votes for the pro-lifer who votes to make abortion illegal despite the punishment. The woman still gets an abortion and gets punished by the justice system. How many souls are likely to go to hell? Probably 2: the woman and the doctor. Of course, how about all the souls who turned away from abortion and contraception because of the heavy punishment? Mr. Catholic should be considered a saint.

As a Catholic, we must try to save as many souls as we can. Scenario 2 wins. Mr. Catholic saves his soul and the politician (for the time being- one less mortal sin).

Now, my wife and I try to be pro-active. We have always advocated that the banning of abortion must be accompanied with Government subsidies to organizations that will help the mothers, adoption programs, and tax incentives to those who adopt (with proper government follow-up). These are just a few ideas we’ve knocked around. We can debate these on another thread. But do not think for a minute that God will tolerate arm chair Catholics who vote to ban abortion and do nothing else. Jesus himself will ask that Catholic, "sure you voted, but did you feed me when I was hungry, clothed…naked… etc.)

The bottom line is this: the life of the unborn matters more than anything else.

I understand that you (and others) may not accept these points. But do not twist the issue from voting according to a belief system with ascribing punishments. Simply because we choose to support life does not mean that we would want the violator to be put to death. The two are different.

God bless you and your family.
 
Third point: Abortion should be illegal. I’m not addressing exceptions in this point. Should the punishment be death? No. A Catholic would not support that either. Should the punishment be life in jail or a long jail term? No, of course not.
This part doesn’t make much sense. If abortion is the murder of an innocent human being, and we have the death penalty for murdering people, then it is only logical and reasonalbe that any Catholic woman who aborts an innocent child should be subject to the death penalty. And the same penalty should apply to any Catholic woman who uses any one of the many abortifacient birth control pills. If we are going to have a long jail term for murdering innocent people, then it is only reasonable that women who use any one of the many abortifacient contraceptive pills should be subject to this long jail term also. And by the way, of all women of child beaing age in the USA, 70% of all Catholic women of child bvearing age (married or not) have used some form of contraception. This compares with 64% of all women of childbearing age who have used contraception. So Catholic women are using artificial contraception at a greater rate than women in the population at large. Similar statistics hold for women who abort in the USA : 27% of all abortions are performed on Catholic women, but Catholics make up only 24% of the population.
 
This part doesn’t make much sense. If abortion is the murder of an innocent human being, and we have the death penalty for murdering people, then it is only logical and reasonalbe that any Catholic woman who aborts an innocent child should be subject to the death penalty. And the same penalty should apply to any Catholic woman who uses any one of the many abortifacient birth control pills. If we are going to have a long jail term for murdering innocent people, then it is only reasonable that women who use any one of the many abortifacient contraceptive pills should be subject to this long jail term also. And by the way, of all women of child beaing age in the USA, 70% of all Catholic women of child bvearing age (married or not) have used some form of contraception. This compares with 64% of all women of childbearing age who have used contraception. So Catholic women are using artificial contraception at a greater rate than women in the population at large. Similar statistics hold for women who abort in the USA : 27% of all abortions are performed on Catholic women, but Catholics make up only 24% of the population.
That goes to show you how poorly the Church is doing at educating the public, BOTH MEN and WOMEN! NFP is the responsiblity of the husband and the wife, not just the wife. If the wife is not using NFP, then neither is the husband. Men created the pill, not women. The two become one and both have a part to play in the sin.
 
Its pretty incredible that a Catholic priest could be advising people to commit a mortal sin and the bishop does nothing about it?
Why are you surprised ? Maybe I just live in a part of the country where this happens and it has been a part of my experience as a Catholic in general to see disobedience in the clergy over the past 15 years…so it doesn’t surprise me. I find that many Priests have not really received good training in seminaries and so i don’t blame them directly. There is a lot of liberalism in the church. it has been a while since you could really say everyone in the church was on the same page!
 
Well, who is the one who wants to make these type of things illegal? Is it honest to blame politicians for the fact that Catholic women are using birth control at a rate greater than women in the general population? Is is honest to blame politicians that Catholic women are having abortions at a rate slightly higher than what would be expected considering the proportion of Catholics in the USA?
Or is this just an attempt by many Catholics to evade personal responsibility in this area?
I would like to see an honest debate of these issues for once in a political campaign. Have you ever noticed how politicians generally avoid this topic or simplify it into being “prolife” or “prochoice”. An honest debate should be had that brings out how abortion and birth control has hurt women.

All these women who are angry about how they were deceived by clinics should be able to speak out.
Health officials should be held accountable for statistics that show 1 out of 4 teens contracting STDs. I have never seen any area of concern being held in such obscurity and so many facts withheld from discussion…no wonder confusion reigns!

And what about the fact that we actually have people who have survived abortions! People who have stories and lives that witness to the fact that it would have been a tragedy if they had died…why are those stories not heard more often. people like Giana Jansen who was aborted in a saline procedure and yet survived. Her vocal cords should have been destroyed but she sings like an angel.
That kind of story should be told.

And the stoies of young women who were victimized by predators, enabled by PP clinics…that story should be publically told.

But all those things are hushed up. The problem to a large extent
resides with a media that is not doing its job and reporting facts so people can make informed decisions on this issue.

And if the church document on voting confuses people so they do not understand fully that the Life issue is primary then it is a bad document and an example of failed shepherding in the church.

Make abortion and contraception illegal but punish doctors and drug companies,or anyone who attempts to harm their baby purposefully, Fund education on natural family planning and make it a required course before issuing marriage licenses.

If there is a legal age of consent then anyone having sex under that age is breaking a law. Schools, clinics and parents who do not safeguard their children from following the law about age and legal consent should be fined heavily. There was newspaper article recently here in my state interviewing a 12 year old going to a clinic on his skateboard to get contraception to celebrate his birthday. Now why isn’t that clinc breaking a law by aiding a minor in having sex when he is not a legal age for consent?Everyone needs to support abstinence education and the practice of celebacy before marriage instead of making ‘virginity’ a bad word.

If a politician lacks commone sense in this area he can’t be trusted in others.
In Christ, maryJohnZ
 
This thread has gone so far off topic.

God bless you all. I believe that this thread has gone as far as possible.
Oh no! :eek:

Don’t go now, we are only on page 7. There is a thread in Social Justice regarding homosexuality which is now on page 48. Heck, we have plenty of room to talk in circles.
 
8 out of the last 10 Supreme Court Juustices were appointed by one party and that party is not Pro-Life. Roe V. Wade should be sad history by now, but it is not. I left that party 16 years ago and right now there is nothing to bring me back.
I am sure that you are aware that the SC cannot just wave a magic wand and do away with abortion. They have to wait for a case to come before it to strick down RvW.
 
I am sure that you are aware that the SC cannot just wave a magic wand and do away with abortion. They have to wait for a case to come before it to strick down RvW.
And if they did strike down RvW, it would just move the issue of abortion back to the states.

In today’s world, not politiician running for state rep would win, if he were supported making abortion illegal in his state.

This is why, we will never see RvW over turned. No one dares bring it back to the local level.

Jim
 
And if they did strike down RvW, it would just move the issue of abortion back to the states.

In today’s world, not politiician running for state rep would win, if he were supported making abortion illegal in his state.

This is why, we will never see RvW over turned. No one dares bring it back to the local level.

Jim
O yee of little faith!
I am sure they thought slavery would never end too or the Dread Scott decision would never be reversed…or women would never have a vote…

Believe me abortion will end.

In Christ, maryJohnZ
 
More than any other thing we all need to be praying the rosary for our country right now.

pray for the Blessed Mother’s intentions for our country and we can be sure her intentions will be what is best for all of our citizens.

Proests for life have a novena to be prayed before the election. The prayer they have posted in here:

priestsforlife.org/novenas/election-day-novena.aspx

God Bless, maryJohnZ
 
sooo true,there are many issues…like McCain voting to confirm Ginsberg to the supremes…a woman in law school who wrote longingly for the age of consent to be reduced down to age 12,and she is also an offical in the anti-Catholic ACLU and which and she stands by this…wants to legalized the ultimate in child abuse…child porn…also there is a commandment I think about stealing…and McCain votes for NAFTA which has resulted in slave labor products under-cutting american made products and thus putting millions of americans out of work…then there is this North American alliance which appears to be in line with Orwells 1984 where in nations are merged to form unions or zones…also this 'hero’seems to swoon over no-win wars that destroy innocent civilian lives and properaty while enriching the pockets of the military-industrial complex…good points to remember ,thank you Catholic Cardinals…
 
Oh no! :eek:

Don’t go now, we are only on page 7. There is a thread in Social Justice regarding homosexuality which is now on page 48. Heck, we have plenty of room to talk in circles.
Fot those of us who set our preference for 100 posts a page we are only on page 2
 
sooo true,there are many issues…like McCain voting to confirm Ginsberg to the supremes…a woman in law school who wrote longingly for the age of consent to be reduced down to age 12,and she is also an offical in the anti-Catholic ACLU and which and she stands by this…wants to legalized the ultimate in child abuse…child porn…also there is a commandment I think about stealing…and McCain votes for NAFTA which has resulted in slave labor products under-cutting american made products and thus putting millions of americans out of work…then there is this North American alliance which appears to be in line with Orwells 1984 where in nations are merged to form unions or zones…also this 'hero’seems to swoon over no-win wars that destroy innocent civilian lives and properaty while enriching the pockets of the military-industrial complex…good points to remember ,thank you Catholic Cardinals…
Good points, but still the dems represent legalized abortion, including partial birth abortion, with no opposition in their party platform and while it is confusing as to whether McCain is too moderate at times, I believe if the majority of our voters vote against he democratic party line it shows alignment with the conservative social view point and directs the country overall toward a corrected social conscience. Going down the other road of voting for dems because they oppose the war in general or oppose death penalty doesn’t have an equal justifucation against their support for embryonic research, homosexual marriage, partial birth abortion, euthanasia…all those are issues dems usually argue for or justify. A vote in that direction is clearly a vote against God’s Law in my mind. neither candidate is perfect but we are called to make the most moral choice possible and let God do the rest.

In Christ, maryJohnZ
 
from our Catechism:

**2240 **Submission to authority and co-responsibility for the common good make it morally obligatory to pay taxes, to exercise the right to vote, and to defend one’s country:
I have a big problem with this statement. To assign a moral right or wrong to whether one bothers to vote or not is micromanagement by the Church. I also think that service in the military is not mandated by God and it’s absurd to say it is.

I think this is an example of a vestige of the time when the Catholic Church was inappropriately aligned with Kings and governments. How dare the Church dictate to me that I’m bound to vote! Absurd!
 
I have a big problem with this statement. To assign a moral right or wrong to whether one bothers to vote or not is micromanagement by the Church. I also think that service in the military is not mandated by God and it’s absurd to say it is.

I think this is an example of a vestige of the time when the Catholic Church was inappropriately aligned with Kings and governments. How dare the Church dictate to me that I’m bound to vote! Absurd!

First, the quote did not mention serving in the military, it said “defend your country”…and you can do that in different ways. But one way to defend you country is to be actively involved in mthe ideas that run the country.

Becoming complacent, passive and not voting is what led to the rise of Hitler. many people have pointed out similarities with the present climate in our country and the climate in Germany when Hitler rose to power, including the way certain candidates are using fear and idealistic talk to garner a strong youth vote…not to mention some passages from certain speeches are almost lifted from some speeches by Karl Marx…

There are serious reasons to be concerned, to be active. This is part of your role in building God’s Kingdom here on earth…to fight for true justice and good will. Given imperfect candidates and an imperfect world, we must make the best choiuce possible and pray God will take it from there knowing our intention to work toward His Kingdom.

Look at history and understand you can’t sit this one out!

I even had a dream about this recently. I was in a room and there were a lot of people around me. Half of the people were causing all kinds of havoc and violence and the other half were perfectly
compalacent and passive and going about their lives as if they could do nothing to fight the evil around them. I tried to say something but no one listend. The I looked and my direction seemed to be directed toward a beautiful woman in the center of the room and I was givne the undersatnding that she has a special gift, asong or poem that only she knew because it was given to her by god. when this woman began to say this song, which was to St. Michael the Archangel, I saw all kinds of angels coming down and syrrounding the passive people. I saw the angels were affecting them and influencing them to become involved and do something. it was this that changed things.

I believe you can interpret the beuatiful woman to be the Blessed Mother in her role as Mediatrix of All Graces. I feel more drawn to
praying the St, Maichael’s prayer but also to ask for the release of mary’s intercession for our country. If you do nothing else, pray, pray, pray…

In Christ, maryJohnZ

In Christ, maryJohnZ
 
On that issue alone? Or on that issue combined with other issues? My mind has been made up for a long time on who to vote for, it sounds to me as though they are trying to give people the go ahead if they feel other issues trump the abortion issue.🤷
My sister was told by her pastor (LA Archdiocese) that if she didn’t vote for candidates who were aligned with the Cardinal’s teachings on immigration, she would not be in full communion with the Church. This from a pastor who flatly refused the KofC request to gather donations for the funeral of a parishioner killed in Iraq or collect Yes on Proposition 8 signatures on the sidewalks next to the church. Yipes.

The Catholics, or for that matter the non-Catholics, with whom I choose to spend the majority of my leisure time, without ever having read it, decided to adhere to CA’s voter guide a long time ago.
 
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