U.S.: Franciscans side with the LCWR

[iloveangels]

Except for the iPhones, blogs, Twitter accounts… not to mention Facebook.

I don’t follow.

Actually, a few Franciscans got burned at the stake by a Pope they refused to obey. Some had to be hidden from others who were hunting them at the behest of the Holy See. Those Franciscans have a darned interesting history for all the talk around here of complete humility and perfect submission.

That’s a few individuals, not the whole order.

And I don’t understand why you are here reading and posting about it.

Because it’s CAF, I have a membership and I can be here if I want to be here. Why are you here? Same reason?

 

[iloveangels]

Oh, I agree. And they made reference to something by Laurie Brink “awhile ago” (or words to that effect), so I don’t think this program is really dated, but yes, it was an opportunity to summarize for a wider audience, perhaps, what’s been bandied about here and there. (And they also referred to the changing nature of the website as well.) They were pulling together, summarizing, condensing, and highlighting. So it is still an important program for the average lay Catholic who may still be confused as to what the heck is even going on, and why.

I understand. Yes, it’s important to get it out into the open and let people know what’s going on so that they don’t make mistakes later that could hurt them.
I listened to part of it online here. It was pretty recent.

 

[JReducation]

The likelihood of any of the orders of men finding themselves in that situation is unlikely for several reasons. The most important being that our infrastructures are very different. We are also led by a conference of superiors, not delegates. The chapter, not the superior, always has the last word. No matter what the CMSM suggests, the chapter can block it. The CMSM functions more like a union, not governing body.

The Conference of Major Superiors of Men (CMSM) has made a very positive statement on this situation. CMSM COMMENTS ON LCWR SITUATION

It reflects very clearly how the men religious and the male societies of apostolic life are thinking about this. It’s very fraternal, but without pointing fingers at anyone.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV

 

[iloveangels]

The likelihood of any of the orders of men finding themselves in that situation is unlikely for several reasons. The most important being that our infrastructures are very different. We are also led by a conference of superiors, not delegates. The chapter, not the superior, always has the last word. No matter what the CMSM suggests, the chapter can block it. The CMSM functions more like a union, not governing body.

The Conference of Major Superiors of Men (CMSM) has made a very positive statement on this situation. CMSM COMMENTS ON LCWR SITUATION

It reflects very clearly how the men religious and the male societies of apostolic life are thinking about this. It’s very fraternal, but without pointing fingers at anyone.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV

Really, this is a good statement. This looks more like something I would expect to see coming out of a large group of religious working together. Although this is a media release. I think the other was directed at the LCWR and copied to the CDF.

 

[JReducation]

You know, sometimes I think you think everyone in your position thinks exactly as you do. I don’t believe that’s reflective of reality.

Reality or not, I have a lot of experience. I’ve been around for a long time. I know how the infrastructure works. We have many checks and balances built into the system so that those who are non compliant cannot fly under the radar, especially if they’re superiors. The community is much more powerful than the superior. There is an internal hierarchy. Even if one superior crosses the line, another will eventually intervene.

Actually, a few Franciscans got burned at the stake by a Pope they refused to obey. Some had to be hidden from others who were hunting them at the behest of the Holy See. Those Franciscans have a darned interesting history for all the talk around here of complete humility and perfect submission.

You proved our point on humility, obedience and submission. The contrary has not been tolerated. People have been burned at the stake, put into prison, dismissed from the order, excommunicated and banned.

There is a difference between saying that we vow to obey without question and saying that no one every violates the vow. The key is to look at the history of what has happened to those who have violated the vow of obedience. It’s never been pleasant. Just look at the Franciscans at Medjugorje. Those who disobeyed were suspended and remain suspended. There is even a dismissal case pending.

Look at the Capuchin Franciscans in Morgon France who followed Archbishop Lefevre. They are no longer part of the Franciscan order.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV

 

[iloveangels]

… We have many checks and balances built into the system so that those who are non compliant cannot fly under the radar, especially if they’re superiors. The community is much more powerful than the superior. There is an internal hierarchy. Even if one superior crosses the line, another will eventually intervene.

Correct, for the Franciscans in the 3 orders. Things can run amok, but it doesn’t last long. It comes around solidly because that’s just how they work. The Dominicans are similar.

As for some of the congregations of women, different story. You have to remember that some of these are more modern–congregations not orders–founded to teach in schools that probably no longer exist, don’t have the structure and history of the Franciscan or Dominican orders and are totally at loose ends. Some of these places had hundreds of teaching sisters in the 50s and now have a handful or two of members all really old, split between factions with more than one leadership structure in the same house. It’s not a pretty picture.

We have an old mother-house like that here. If you visit there on retreat or something, you can walk the halls in the evening and imagine what it must have been like. The rooms are all empty and dark. It’s like being in an abandoned castle. The books in the library are all old and mostly untouched. It’s strange. The whole thing just collapsed.

 

[JReducation]

Correct, for the Franciscans in the 3 orders. Things can run amok, but it doesn’t last long. It comes around solidly because that’s just how they work. The Dominicans are similar.

As for some of the congregations of women, different story. You have to remember that some of these are more modern–congregations not orders–founded to teach in schools that probably no longer exist, don’t have the structure and history of the Franciscan or Dominican orders and are totally at loose ends. Some of these places had hundreds of teaching sisters in the 50s and now have a handful of members all really old, split between factions with more than one leadership structure in the same house. It’s not a pretty picture.

We have an old mother-house like that here. If you visit there on retreat or something, you can walk the halls in the evening and imagine what it must have been like. The rooms are all empty and dark. It’s like being in an abandoned castle. The books in the library are all old and mostly untouched. It’s strange. The whole thing just collapsed.

We have to understand the difference in infrastructure between an order and a congregation. With the exception of the Jesuits, an order, be it secular or regular is always governed by one of the rules: Benedictine, Augustinian, Carmelite, Trinitarian, Basilian or Franciscan. There are no other rules. Those rules have a system of government that cannot be changed. It is what it is. In our own Franciscan rule it says that disobedient friars are to be locked up in a dungeon. This is the meek and gentle Francis writing this. Each time someone derails, eventually someone comes along and sets things right again and the person who did the derailing has consequences. Though not as harsh as our founders prescribed.

The sisters belong to congregations. Congregations are congregations for a reason. These were people, men or women, who came together (congregated) for the sake of an apostolate. Their life is built around an apostolate. For example, the Salesians work with youth. They were given statutes that they could change as the demands of the apostolate changed. This meant that they could also change how they governed themselves.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV

 

[triumphguy]

The thing about the Franciscans (or what I learned from being in formation for 6 yeas with them) is their absolute lack of toleration of ego whether in a Franciscan House or in the Province. They take no guff from anyone in the community (obviously this may take some time to manifest) but they are willing to let people fail (as in - hmm that sounds interesting, what is the worst that can happen? Fail? So not so bad then 'cos we can learn from that…), but they are not willing to be hoodwinked.

They don’t mind being seen as the butt, the fool, the joker - in fact they revel in it - though there is nothing foolish about them.

And they are not wooly headed tree huggers, or soft-hearted caricatures of the* poverello*.

They are a force for good in the Church and see themselves as counter-cultural and prophetic, but wholly in obedience to the Church.

 

[JReducation]

The thing about the Franciscans (or what I learned from being in formation for 6 yeas with them) is their absolute lack of toleration of ego whether in a Franciscan House or in the Province. They take no guff from anyone in the community (obviously this may take some time to manifest) but they are willing to let people fail (as in - hmm that sounds interesting, what is the worst that can happen? Fail? So not so bad then 'cos we can learn from that…), but they are not willing to be hoodwinked.

They don’t mind being seen as the butt, the fool, the joker - in fact they revel in it - though there is nothing foolish about them.

And they are not wooly headed tree huggers, or soft-hearted caricatures of the* poverello*.

They are a force for good in the Church and see themselves as counter-cultural and prophetic, but wholly in obedience to the Church.

You have summarized the family pretty well. We’re laid back enough to say to someone in trouble, “Don’t worry. Pray and trust.” We’re also tough enough to say to our own, “You messed up. Now you must fix it.”

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV

 

[iloveangels]

We have to understand the difference in infrastructure between an order and a congregation. With the exception of the Jesuits, an order, be it secular or regular is always governed by one of the rules: Benedictine, Augustinian, Carmelite, Trinitarian, Basilian or Franciscan. There are no other rules. Those rules have a system of government that cannot be changed. It is what it is. In our own Franciscan rule it says that disobedient friars are to be locked up in a dungeon. This is the meek and gentle Francis writing this. Each time someone derails, eventually someone comes along and sets things right again and the person who did the derailing has consequences. Though not as harsh as our founders prescribed.

The sisters belong to congregations. Congregations are congregations for a reason. These were people, men or women, who came together (congregated) for the sake of an apostolate. Their life is built around an apostolate. For example, the Salesians work with youth. They were given statutes that they could change as the demands of the apostolate changed. This meant that they could also change how they governed themselves.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV

Something you talked about much earlier made an impression on me. I’m going to paraphrase rather than look up the quote, so correct me if I’ve goofed it up, Br. JR.

Franciscans and members of other medieval orders “be” at least as much as they “do.” And when they do something it comes out of their “being what they really are as Franciscans.”

In other words, when a Franciscan teaches in a school and the school closes, he doesn’t go into a tailspin and he’s not at loose ends. He’s still being a Franciscan, expectation of teaching today or no.

When a Franciscan walks through the streets of Brooklyn, he’s being a Franciscan and if that’s all he does, and that’s all he’s supposed to do, then it’s fine. It’s about embodying the charism because the charism is a way of being Catholic and that brings the Church into the world.

This is why Franciscans work like horses to help people in their troubles, but they’re not social workers first. That’s not the point.

 

[iloveangels]

Big differences between the forms of religious life. And big differences in the consequences too. This is one of the reasons why going back to study the foundations was a good thing after Vatican II for the Franciscans.

Not so much so for teaching and nursing congregations of women, some of whom had problems identifying and/or understanding their real foundations. Some of them were literally founded on the fly, specifically to serve in particular schools and hospitals which were long gone or changed beyond recognition. And when the 60s hit…

 

[Cinette]

We have to understand the difference in infrastructure between an order and a congregation. With the exception of the Jesuits, an order, be it secular or regular is always governed by one of the rules: Benedictine, Augustinian, Carmelite, Trinitarian, Basilian or Franciscan. There are no other rules. Those rules have a system of government that cannot be changed. It is what it is. In our own Franciscan rule it says that disobedient friars are to be locked up in a dungeon. This is the meek and gentle Francis writing this. Each time someone derails, eventually someone comes along and sets things right again and the person who did the derailing has consequences. Though not as harsh as our founders prescribed.

The sisters belong to congregations. Congregations are congregations for a reason. These were people, men or women, who came together (congregated) for the sake of an apostolate. Their life is built around an apostolate. For example, the Salesians work with youth. They were given statutes that they could change as the demands of the apostolate changed. This meant that they could also change how they governed themselves.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV

*I go to three different Parishes and one of them is Jesuit. I find Jesuits very permissive. Recently I forwarded an email I received about Georgetown University and the behaviour of Jesuits which is unacceptable - I forwarded it to my Parish Priest and he turned nasty and now our relationship has turned cold! I think he had a duty to reassure me!!!

Cinette*

 

[JReducation]

*I go to three different Parishes and one of them is Jesuit. I find Jesuits very permissive. Recently I forwarded an email I received about Georgetown University and the behaviour of Jesuits which is unacceptable - I forwarded it to my Parish Priest and he turned nasty and now our relationship has turned cold! I think he had a duty to reassure me!!!

Cinette*

We have to be very careful in understanding the Jesuits. They are an order with solemn vows just like monks and friars, which is the highest form of religious profession in the Church. However, they have few of the obligations that go with those vows, but all the rights and privileges. St. Ignatius did not want his men being subject to too many rules and too much oversight. They were to be free, including free of each other, so as to go where the Church needed them to go.

The only person who can ask the Jesuits to explain themselves is the Superior General and the pope. Provincial superiors and local superiors do not have this authority. Laity, other religious and bishops do not have this authority. We do not have the right to say that this Jesuit action or that Jesuit action is unacceptable. We can say it, but it’s only going to be interpreted as a violation of their right to be autonomous from us.

If you observe, Cardinal Wuerl was the only prelate who wrote a formal letter of concern about the Georgetown situation; however, he did not write it to the Jesuits. He wrote to the university administration. He was very careful not to cross that fine line and question the Jesuits. He has the authority to write such a letter to the administration, because the university exists in his diocese. He said that the university’s choices were unacceptable, not those of the Jesuits. He did not cross the line that you may have crossed.

A few years ago, Pope Benedict and the general chapter of the Jesuits reached an agreement. They would support the Holy Father and he would protect them from the rest of us.

If you sounded as if you were asking Father to explain his order’s actions to you, it may have come off the wrong way . . . especially, if the man is already gun shy. It seems fashionable, these days, for Catholics to promote hatred toward the Jesuits, condemn them at every turn, give them no credit for the good that they are doing around the world and inside the Church. They have become the order that Catholics love to hate and feel justified before God and their consciences in doing so. Which is not quite right either.

They have some men who are very good at getting into trouble. This is true. I always think of it as a large family that is always going to have some relatives who are magnets for trouble. Trust me, I have a few in my biological family. They’re good people who do dumb things.

Next time you want to know more about why the Jesuits did this or that don’t send it in writing. Simply approach one of them in a very humble way and say, “I don’t understand. Can you help me understand?” We must remember, Jesuits have no obligation to explain themselves to anyone except the Superior General and the Pope. We can ask for clarifications, but not for an accounting. Wording is very important.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV

 

[triumphguy]

There’s a downside to all “this freedom from” oversight and responsibility …

the Jesuits are “free to” go to some of the most dangerous places in the world and get martyred.

More than 300 Jesuits were martyred in the 20th century.

More than 300 Jesuits died during the 20th century for love of God and their fellow human bings. Some of them were murdered; others died as a result of maltreatment; others were simply made to “disappear” by terrorist regimes who regularly hide their victims. All of them form part of our martyrology for the twentieth century. for the twentieth century. for the twentieth century. for the twentieth century.

The Second Vatican Council declared that the excellence of martyrdom was rooted in the degree of identificaton with Jesus Christ which motiviated a person to give his life for others.

At the end of the millennium Pope John Paul II commissioned a Martyrology for the 20th century, so that we might not forget the witness of love of God and neighbor which so many men and women of our time have given with their lives and with their deaths.

+++ +++ +++
Victims of racial and xenophobic hatred

Murdered during the Boxers’ Revolution in China

* Bl Fr Modeste Andlauer (1847-1900) 19-6-1900: Ouy
* Bl Fr Remi Isoré (1852-1900) 19-6-1900: Ouy
* Bl Fr Paul Denn (1847-1901) 20-7-1901: Tchou-Kia-Ho
* Bl Fr Léon Ignace Mangin (1857-1901) 20-7-1901: Tchou-Kia-Ho

Armenia

* Fr Pierre Aghadjanian (1875-1916) 6-9-1916
* Fr Jean Balian (1867-1915) ?-?-1915

Victims of anti-religious persecutions

Mexico

* Bl Fr Miguel Agustín Pro (1891-1927) 23-11-1927

(The following are currently being considered for beatification)

China

* Fr Tomás Esteban (1879-1933?) ?-?-1933?-: China
* Fr Ismael Avito Gutiérrez Lucio (1895-1932) 18-5-1932: China
* Fr Dositeo López Pardo (1899-1934) ?-11-1934: China
* Fr Joseph Sontag (1899-1938) 8-4-1938: China
* Mr Andrés Fong (1908-1942) 25-1-1942: China
* Fr Joseph He (?-1-41?) 22-11-1941? : China
* Fr Chrétien Homo (1910-1946?) ?-?-1946? : China
* Fr Ricardo Ponsol (1879-1940) 18-10-1940: China

Spain

* Fr José María Alegre Jiménez (1865-1936) 10-11-1936: Madrid
* Fr Bartolomeo Arbona Estades (1862-1936) 29-11-1936: Barcelona
* Br Juan Bautista Arconada Pérez (1890-1934) 7-10-1934: Oviedo
* Fr Ramón Artigues Sirvent (1902-1936) 20-7-1936: Lérida
* Fr Francisco Audí Cid (1872-1936) 3-11-1936: Tortosa
* Fr Jesús Ballesta Tejero (1903-1936) 8-8-1936: Madrid
* Fr Narciso Basté Basté (1866-1936) 15-10-1936: Valencia
* Fr Luis Boguñá Porta (1893-1936) 14-8-1936: Gerona
* Fr Pablo Bori Puig (1864-1936) 29-9-1936: Valencia
* Fr Constantino Carbonell Sempere (1866-1936) 23-8-1936: Gandía
* Fr Andrés Carrió Bertrán (1876-1936) 26-8-1936: Alicante
* Fr Manuel De La Cerda y De Las Bárcenas (1900-1936) 4-12-1936: Madrid
* Fr Olegario Corral García (1871-1936) 28-12-1936: Santander
* Fr Fé1ix Cots Oliveras (1895-1936) 21-7-1936: Barcelona
* Br José Ignacio Elduayen Larrañaga (1884-1936) 7-8-1936: Madrid
* Fr Juan Bautista Ferreres Boluda (1861-1936) 29-12-1936: Valencia
* Br Pedro Gelabert Amer (1887-1936) 23-8-1936: Gandía
* Fr Juan Gómez Hellín (1899-1936) 2-10-1936: Madrid
* Fr Manuel González Hernández (1889-1936) 8-9-1936: Ciudad Real
* Br Ramón Grimaltos Monllor (1861-1936) 23-8-1936: Gandia
* Fr Darío Hernández Morató (1880-1936) 29-9-1936: Valencia
* Br Domingo Ibarlucea Iregui (1906-1936) 8-9-1936: Ciudad Real
* Br Felipe Iriondo Amundaráin (1869-1936) 21-7-1936: Barcelona
* Br Lorenzo Isla Sanz (1865-1936) 25-7-1936: Tarragona
* Fr Manuel Luque Fontanilla (1856-1936) 29-8-1936: Almería
* Br José Llatje Blanc (1893-1936) 5-9-1936: Tortosa
* Br Constantino March Batlles (1877-1937) 16-3-1937: Barcelona
* Fr Emilio Martínez Martínez (1893-1934) 7-10-1934: Oviedo
* Fr Braulio Martínez Simón (1852-1936) 25-7-1936: Tarragona
* Fr Marcial Mayorga Paredes (1902-1936) 15-10-1936: Santander
* Fr Miguel Mendoza Reig (1889-1936) 1-9-1936: Barcelona
* Fr José Muñoz Albiol (1904-1936) 15-10-1936: Barcelona
* Fr Jaime Noguera Baró (1901-1937) 14-2-1937: Barcelona
* Fr Alfonso Payán Pérez (1877-1936) 30-8-1936: Almería
* Fr Manuel Peypoch Sala (1870-1936) 29-7-1936: Manresa
* Fr José Romá Carreres (1895-1936) 21-7-1936: Barcelona
* Fr Juan Rovira Oriandis (1877-1936) 3-11-1936: Tortosa
* Br Pascual Ruiz Ramírez (1901-1936) 7-8-1936: Madrid
* Br Vicente Sales Genovés (1888-1936) 29-9-1936: Valencia
* Br José Sampol Escalas (1899-1936) 27-8-1936: Barcelona
* Fr José SAnchez Oliva (1891-1936) 9-9-1936: Ciudad Real
* Br Antonio Sanchiz Martínez (1906-1936) 9-9-1936: Ciudad Real
* Fr Martín Santaella Gutiérrez (1873-1936) 26-8-1936: Almería
* Fr Alfredo Simón Colomina (1877-1936) 29-11-1936: Valencia
* Fr Tomás Sioar Fortiá (1866-1936) 19-8-1936: Gandía
* Br José Tarrats Comaposada (1876-1936) 28-9-1936: Valencia
* Fr Francisco Javier Tena Colom (1863-1936) 26-8-1936: Barcelona
* Fr Ricardo Tena Montero De Espinosa (1877- 1936) 8-9-1936: Azuaga
* Fr Joaquín María Valentí De Marti (1884- 1936) 14-8-1936: Gerona
* Fr Ignacio de Velasco Nieto (1890-1936) 24-9-1936: Madrid
* Fr José Vergés De Trias (1898-1936) 14-8-1936: Gerona
* Fr Demetrio Zurbitu Recalde (1886-1936) 20-10-1936: Barcelona

examiner.com/article/over-300-jesuits-martyred-the-20th-century

No apologies for the long post - these men died for love of Christ and His Church.

 

[JimG]

. . . The only person who can ask the Jesuits to explain themselves is the Superior General and the pope.
. . .

I believe you; but it does leave people like Cinette and other ordinary Catholics–who may even be subject to their pastoral care–sort of out in the cold. If a Jesuit teaches heresy, one has no recourse except to hope that the Superior General or the Pope steps in to correct him.

 

[Julia_Mae]

You proved our point on humility, obedience and submission. The contrary has not been tolerated. People have been burned at the stake, put into prison, dismissed from the order, excommunicated and banned.

And some of them became the Order of Friars Minor, Capuchin.

It isn’t obedience or humility if you do it because some mad Pope burned your brothers at the stake. It’s fear. It isn’t “fraternal correction” if your brothers hunt you down and kill you.

Just look at the Franciscans at Medjugorje. Those who disobeyed were suspended and remain suspended.

They were not disobeying as much as getting nuns knocked up. But I think we are going off-topic.

 

[triumphguy]

(The following are not currently being considered for beatification)

* Br Catarino Abril Marín (1881-1936) 23-8-1936: Valencia
* Fr Ismael Accensi Cid (1894-1936) 3-8-1936: Tortosa
* Br Diego Aguilera (1912-1938) 29-3-1938: Córdoba
* Br Juan Bautista Andrada Salvador (1898-1936) 25-10-1936: Valencia
* Fr José del Arco (1889-1936) 27-12-1936: Santander
* Br José Manuel Arín Dorronsoro (1887-1936) 26-11-1936: Madrid
* Fr Angel Armiñana Silvestre (1902-1936) 3-10-1936: Alicante
* Fr Leopoldo Barba Caballero (1870-1936) 18-9-1936: Málaga
* Fr Juan ? Fr Beamonte García (1895-1936) 7-8-1936: Valencia
* Fr Manuel Berdún (1879-1937) 15-3-1937: Barcelona
* Fr Paulino Bertrán Sempere (1874-1936) 10-8-1936: Manresa
* Br Tomás Boix Almiñana (1866-1936) 24-8-1936: Barcelona
* Fr Baldomero Bonilla Fernández (1865-1936) 15-10-1936: Murcia
* Fr Ignacio Casanovas Camprubí (1865-1936) 21-8-1936: Barcelona
* Br Ramón Codina Alier (1869-1936) 25-7-1936: Barcelona
* Br José Conti Sala (1865-1936) 9-8-1936: Valencia
* Br Manuel Darder Palahi (1862-1936) 15-10-1936: Valencia
* Br Agustín Díaz y Zapata (1869-1936) 27-7-1936: Toledo
* Br José Fabregat Verdú (1893-1936) 8-9-1936: Valencia
* Fr Agustín Fernández Hernández (1904-1936) 14-8-1936: Gijón
* Fr Manuel Fernández Díaz-Masa (1904-1936) 30-11-1936: Madrid
* Fr José F. Ferragut Sbert (1889-1936) 21-9-1936: Barcelona
* Br Vicente Fonfría Geri (1891-1936) 29-10-1936: Valencia
* Br Tomás Frasno Peñarrocha (1866-1936) 29-7-1936: Barcelona
* Fr Narciso Fuentes Ruiz-Delgado (1875- 1936) 12-8-1936: Valencia
* Br José Gabarrón Pérez (1868-1936) 13-10-1936: Málaga
* Br José García Molina (1911-1936) 14-8-1936: Málaga
* Fr Zacarías García Villada (1879-1936) 1-10-1936: Madrid
* Fr Nemesio Gonzalez Alonso (1866-1936) 14-8-1936: Gijdn
* Fr Luis Gordillo Díaz (1898-1936) 23-7-1936: Málaga
* Fr Vicente Guimerá Roca (1869-1936) 30-9-1936: Valencia
* Fr Joaquín Hernández López (1881-1936) 7-8-1936: Madrid
* Br Antonio Jiménez Blázquez (1885-1936) 13-10-1936: Málaga
* Fr José Juan Martínez (1867-1936) 26-9-1936: Valencia
* Fr Martín Juste García (1863-1936) 27-7-1936: Toledo
* Fr Florentino Laria Sampedro (1866-1936) 5-11-1936: Madrid
* Fr Manuel de Larragan Alfaro (1884-1936) 15-10-1936: Madrid
* Fr Manuel Mañes Bosch (1887-1936) 25-7-1936: Barcelona
* Fr Juan Martínez García (1902-1936) 19-9-1936: Madrid
* Fr Jesús Martínez Hernández (1903-1936) 7-11-1936: Madrid
* Fr Valentino Mayordomo González (1878- 1937) 18-3-1937: Santander
* Br José Mendizdbal Tolosa (1881-1937) 18-5-1937: Santander
* Br Angel Mercader Vatero (1889-1936) 14-8-1936: Valencia
* Fr Pedro Miró De Mesa (1901-1936) 20-11-1936: Barcelona
* Fr Ramón Molina (1904-1938) 19-3-1938 Andorra
* Br Carlos Moncho Montaner (1868-1936) 3-9-1936: Tortosa
* Fr Jesús Montero Carrión (1887-1936) 10-8-1936: Madrid
* Fr Inocencio Muñoz Aguilera (1895-1936) 14-8-1936: Málaga
* Br Joaquín Noguera Martínez (1873-1936) 22-8-1936: Madrid
* Mr José Oortiz Calvo (1911-1936) 8-11-1936: Madrid
* Fr José Palacio Molina (1865-1936) 19-8-1936: Alcalahí
* Br Félix Palacios (1877-1936) 27-7-1936: Toledo
* Fr Miguel Pardo De Donlebún (1881-1936) 9-8-1936: Barcelona
* Fr Luis Perera Canogia (1865-1936) 4-10-1936: Valencia
* Fr José Pedromingo Cotayna (1904-1936) 6-12-1936: Guadalajara
* Br José Rallo Pascual (1863-1936) 24-8-1936: Barcelona
* Fr José Rodríguez De La Torre (1877-1936) 5-10-1936: Málaga
* Mr Gregorio Ruiz Rodríguez (1911-1936) 5-9-1936: Santander
* Fr José Ruiz Goyo (1897-1936) 5-9-1936: Santander
* Fr José Ruiz Pimentel (1887-1936) 15-10-1936: Málaga
* Mr Nicolás Serrano Fernández (1910-1936) 5-9-1936: Santander
* Br José Serres Borrás (1890-1936) 17-9-1936: Barcelona
* Br José Simón Cascales (1873-19:36) 14-8-1936: Valencia
* Fr Pedro Trullás Claramunt (1867-1936) 25-7-1936: Barcelona
* Br José María Valiente Trigueros (1894-1936) 8-11-1936: Madrid
* Fr Ramón Vendrell Vives (1865-1936) 7-8-1936: Tarragona
* Br Ignacio Vila March (1858-1936) 26-9-1936: Barcelona
* Fr José María Vives Castellet (1882-1936) 3-10-1936: Tarragona
* Br Francisco Vives Masses (1898-1936) 15-9-1936: Barcelona
* Fr José Antonio Yáñez González (1870-1936) 14-8-1936: Gijón
* Fr Gerhard Aben (1901-1945) 1-11-1945: Indonesia
* Fr Gerhard Minderop (1885-1945) 1-11-1945: Indonesia
* Fr Johannes Schouten (1894-1945) 1-11-1945: Indonesia
* Fr Joseph Versteegh (1898-1945) 1-11-1945: Indonesia
* Fr Ludwig Weve (1888-1945) 1-11-1945: Indonesia
* Mr Norbertus Dirdjawewita (1915-1945) 1-11-1945: Indonesia
* Mr Willibrordus Mooi-Wilten (1915-1945) 1-11-1945: Indonesia
* Br Dominicus Widijasoepadma (1914-1945) 1-11-1945: Indonesia
* Mr Herman Bouwens (1920-1948) 20-12-1948 1-11-1945: Indonesia

Victims of Nazism and their allies

* Fr Alfred Delp (1907-1945) 2-2-1945
* Fr Alois Grimm (1886-1944) 11-9-1944
* Fr Johann Schwingshackl (1887-1945) 28-2-1945
* Fr Johann Steinmayr (1890-1944) 18-9-1944: Brandeburg
* Mr Robert Albrecht (1907-1942) 17-9-1942
* Mr Antonin Malimánek (1916-1945) 13-3-1945
* Fr Frantisek Ulk (1904-1945) 10-3-1945
* Mr Thomas Munk (1924-1945) 23-4-1945
* Fr Alojzij Zuzek (1865-1941) 15-5-1941
* Fr Victor Dillard (1897-1945) 12-1-1945
* Fr Yves de Montcheuil (1900-1944) 11-8-1941
* Fr Stanislaw Bednarski (1896-1942) 16-7-1942: Dachau
* Br Antoni Bieganski (1900-1944) 2-8-1944
* Fr Antoni Bielen (1880-1939) ?-?-1939
* Fr Blazej Blajer (1885-1939) ?-11-1939
* Br Jan Binkowski (1867-1941) 22-1-1941: Dachau
* Br Klemens Bobritzki (1911-1944) 2-8-1944
* Fr Bronislaw Franciszek Bojulka (1895-1939) ?-?-1939
* Mr Franiszek Bok (1882-1939) 20-10-1939
* Mr Jan Borysiak (1914-1939) ?-11-1939
* Fr Jan Brodowski (1910-1939) ?-11-1939
* Mr Stanislaw Bukowy (1910-1942) 22-12-1942: Dachau
* Br Józef Cag (1912-1945) 13-5-1945: Grossrosen
* Fr Józef Cyrek (1904-1940) 2-9-1940: Auschwitz
* Fr Józef Czudek (1883-1941) 16-2-1941: Dachau
* Mr Julian Czyzycki (1911-1942) 5-12-1942: Dachau
* Fr Kazimierz Dembowski (1912-1942) 10-8-1942: Dachau
* Fr Stanislaw Felczak (1906-1942) 9-5-1942: Dachau
* Br Józef Fus (1906-1944) 2-8-1944
* Mr Bronislaw Gladysz (1913-1942) 6-5-1942: Dachau
* Br Adarn Glaudam (1863-1944) 2-8-1944
* Fr Czeslaw Glowa (1909-1939) ?-11-1939
* Fr Józef Golebiowski (1883-1939) 6-10-1939
* Fr Zbigniew Grabowski (1916-1944) 2-8-1944
* Fr Blazej Jablonski (1871-1942) 11-12-1942
* Fr Franciszek Kaluza (1877-1941) 19-1-1941: Dachau
* Br Stanislaw Komar (1882-1942) 15-7-1942: Dachau
* Fr Józef Konewecki (1893-1939) ?-11-1939
* Fr Edward Jan Kosibowicz (1895-1944) 2-8-1944
* Fr Julian Letowski (1907-1941) 4-3-1941: Auschwitz
* Fr Herman Libinski (1867-1944) 2-8-1944
* Br Piotr Ludwikowski (1905-1939) 20-10-1939
* Fr Jan Madalinski (1911-1944) 2-8-1944
* Fr Michal Malinowski (1887-1942) 13-8-1942: Dachau
* Fr Marian Józef Wojciech Morawski (1881-1940) ?-?-1940: Auschwitz
* Fr Henryk Mroczka (1901-1944) 17-8-1944
* Mr Jerzy Stanislaw Musial (1919-1945) 9-3-1945: Dachau
* Fr Antoni Niemancewicz (1893-1943) ?-?-1943: Berlin
* Br Bernard Nierowisz (1888-1942) 3-8-1942: Auschwitz
* Br Stanislaw Orzechowski (1904-1944) 2-8-1944
* Fr Jan Pawelski (1868-1944) 2-8-1944
* Fr Stanislaw Podolenski (1887-1945) 13-1-1945: Dachau
* Fr Roman Przystas (1908-1942) 29-9-1942: Dachau
* Br Wladyslaw Racinski (1914-1941) ?-12-1941: Mauthausen
* Fr Edmund Roszac (1900-1943) 15-7-1943
* Fr Czeslaw Sejbuk (1906-1943) 20-4-1943: Dachau
* Mr Stanislaw Sewillo (1917-1943) 22-3-1943: Dachau
* Fr Stanislaw Sowa (1886-1944) 13-4-1944
* Fr Karol Sudy (1908-1939) ?-11-1939
* Br Czeslaw Swiecicki (1912-1944) 2-8-1944
* Mr Stefan Szakola (1912-1942) 15-7-1942: Dachau
* Fr Boleslaw Szopinski (1880-1941) 18-1-1941: Dachau
* Fr Adam Sztark (1907-1942) 28-12-1942
* Mr Wladyslaw Antoni Szulc (1910-1941) 27-2-1941: Dachau
* Fr Franciszek Szymanyak (1916- 1944) 1-8-1944
* Br Stanislaw Tomaszeski (1919-1944) 2-8-1944
* Br Henryk Trela (1889-1942) 24-7-1942: Mauthausen
* Mr Leon Wasckielis (1909-1942) ?-?-1942: Dachau
* Br Wojciech Watróbski (1917-1939) ?-11-1939
* Fr Gabriel Weglinski (1906-1940) ?-?-1940: Mauthausen
* Fr Wladyslaw Wiacek (1910-1944) 2-8-1944
* Mr Bronislaw Wielgosz (1916-1942) 29-4-1942: Dachau
* Fr Henryk Wilczynski (1915-1944) 2-8-1944
* Br Julian Wojkowski (1863-1939) ?-11-1939
* Fr Mieczylaw Wroblewski (1912-1944) 2-8-1944
* Fr Edmund Leopold Zabek (1902-1939) ?-11-1939
* Br Jan Zajak (1911-1945) 12-2-1945: Dachau
* Br Eugeniusz Zelezniak (1900-1942) 3-3-1942: Dachau
* Fr Antoni Zwiatopelk-Mirski (1907-1942) 24-12-1942
* Fr Prosper Bernard (1902-1943) 18-3-1943: Canada
* Fr Alphonse Dubé (1891-1943) 18-3-1943: Canada
* Fr Armand Lalonde (1904-1943) 18-3-1943: Canada

continued from above

 

[triumphguy]

Died in Concentration camps

Indonesia

* Mr Constantinus Teurlings (1915-1943) 21-2-1943
* Fr Theodorus Teppema (1899-1944) 31-1-1944
* Fr Hermanus Caminada (1902-1944) 19-4-1944
* Fr Joannes van Rijckeworsel (1876-1944) 21-4-1944
* Fr Mauritius Timmers (1857-1944) 20-5-1944
* Fr Franciscus Sträter (1882-1944) 15-6-1944
* Fr Theodorus Cocx (1887-1944) 17-6-1944
* Fr Antonius van Hoof (1879-1944) 22-9-1944
* Fr Hermanus Jansen (1877-1944) 10-10-1944
* Fr Joannes Sevink (1875-1944) 24-12-1944
* Fr Joannes Bemdsen (1884-1945) 31-1-1945
* Fr Franciscus Oosthout (1875-1945) 16-5-1945
* Fr Josephus Wubbe (1886-1945) 1-8-1945

 

[triumphguy]

Micronesia

* Fr Miguel Timoner y Guadera (1892-1944) ?-11-1944
* Fr Luis Blanco y Suárez (1896-1945) 15-1-1945
* Fr Marino De La Hoz (1886-1945) 15-1-1945
* Br Emilio Del Villar y Blázquez (1893-1945) 15-1-1945
* Fr Bernardo de la Espriella y Mosquera (1890-1945)
* Fr Elías Fernández González (1880-)
* Br Francisco Hernández y Escudero (1887-)

Victims of post-World War II Communist regimes

* Fr Daniel Dajani (1906-1946) 4-3-1946: Albania
* Fr Giovanni Fausti (1899-1946) 4-3-1946: Albania
* Br Gjon Pantaljia (1887-1947) 31-1--1947: Albania
* Fr Ndoc (Antonio) Saraci (1875-1947) 3-5-1947: Albania
* Fr Zef Saraci (1884-1954) 16-9-1954: Albania
* Fr Antonín Zgarbíik (1913-1965) 22-1-1965: Bohemia
* Mr Izidor Bistrovic (1949-1969) 4-12-1969: Croatia
* Fr Franjo Bortas (1903-1947) 7-6-1947: Croatia
* Fr Josip Müller (1893-1945) 28-11-1945: Croatia
* Fr Peter Perica (1881-1944) 25-10-1944: Croatia
* Fr Joze Bric (1907-1945) 21-11-1945: Slovenia
* Bp Lambert Ehrlich (1878-1942) 26-5-1942: Slovenia
* Fr Martin Meglik (1871-1945) 22-2-1945: Slovenia
* Fr Benjamin Jakab (1903-1950) 5-7-1950: Hungary
* Fr Ferenc Kajdi (1884- 1945?) ?-?-1945: Hungary
* Fr Antal Laskay (1909-1945?) ?-?-1945?
* Fr Józef Vid (1898-1952) 18-10-1952: Hungary
* Fr Benediktas Andruska (1884-1951) ?-?-1941: Lithuania
* Fr Joannes Peeperkorn (1898-1947?) ?-?-1947: Lithuania
* Fr Jazeps Püdans (1903-1942) 15-6-1942: Lithuania
* Fr Tadeusz Chabrowski (1909-1941) 9-1-1941: Poland
* Fr Alfons Czyzewski (1897-1953) 16-11-1953: Poland
* Br Kajetan Górski (1879-1942) ?-?-1942: Poland
* Fr Antoni Grzybowski (1904-1943) 20-10-1943: Poland
* Fr Jan Haniewski (1873-1942) ?-2-1942: Poland
* Br Jakub Jagusz (1872-1942) ?-7-1942: Poland
* Fr Kazimierz Konopka (1879-1941) 26-6-1941: Poland
* Fr Mariusz Skibniewski (1881-1939) 28-9-1939: Poland
* Fr Stanislaw Wnek (1859-1944) 27-4-1944: Poland
* Fr Waclaw Zaborowski (1904-1958) 14-5-1958: Poland
* Fr Cornel Chira (1904-1953) 20-8-1953: Romania
* Mr Xavier Robert (1912-?) ?-?-?: China
* Fr Beda Chang (Tsan-) Cheng-Min (1905-1951) 11-11-1951: China
* Fr Joseph Hu Shih-Chao (1908-?) ?-?-?: China
* Fr Andrés Li Shu-Pei (1913-?) ?-?-?: China
* Fr Peter T'Ang Kai-Shan (1906-1957) ?-?-1957: China
* Fr Louis Téteau (1874-1952) 4-5-1952: China
* Fr Antony Wang Che(1912-1953) 17-9-1953: China
* Br Laurentius Chin Lin-Shen (1915-?) ?-?-?: China
* Fr Chrysostomus Chang Szu-Ch'Ien (1910-1961?) ?-?-1961?: China
* Fr Petrus Chang Chin-Shan (1903-1967) ?-?-1967: China
* Fr Stephanus Chou Ju-Yüe (1901-1966?) ?-?-1966?: China
* Fr Aloysius Chu Kuang-Chung (1906-1968) ?-?-1968: China
* Fr Paulus Cheng Wei-Hsien (1903-1970?) ?-?-1970? : China
* Fr Francis-Xavier Chu Shu-Teh (1913-1983) 28-12-1983: China
* Fr Josephus Hsü Ching-Fang (1914-?) ?-?-?: China
* Br Laurentius Ts'Ao Chin-Teh (1893-?) China

Victims of dictatorial regimes or social movements

* Fr Luis Espinal Camps (1932-1980) 22-3-1980: Bolivia
* Fr João Bosco Penido Burnier (1917-1976) 12-10-1976: Brazil
* Br Vicente Cañas Costa (1939-1987) 6-4-1987: Brazil
* Fr Sergio Restrepo Jaramillo (1939-1989) 1-6-1989: Colombia
* Fr Rutilio Grande García (1928-1977) 12-3-1977: El Salvador
* Fr Ignacio Ellacuría Beascoechea (1930-1989) 16-11-1989: El Salvador
* Fr Amando López Quintana (1936-1989) 16-11-1989: El Salvador
* Fr Joaquín López y López (1918-1989) 16-11-1989: El Salvador
* Fr Ignacio Martín Baró (1942-1989) 16-11-1989: El Salvador
* Fr Segundo Montes Mozo (1933-1989) 16-11-1989: El Salvador
* Fr Juan Ramón Moreno Pardo (1933-1989) 16-11-1989: El Salvador
* Fr Carlos Pérez Alonso (1936-1981?) 2-8-1981?: Guatemala
* Fr Bernard Darke (1925-1979) 14-7-1979: Guyana
* Fr Godofredo Atingal (1922-1981) 13-4-1981: Philippines
* Br Nicolas De Glos (1911-1976) 23-5-1976: Chad
* Br Alfredo Pérez Lobato (1937-1973) 1-12-1973: Chad
* Br John Joseph Conway (1920-1977) 6-2-1977: Zimbabue
* Fr Desmond Donovan (1927-1978?) 15?-1?-1978? : Zimbabue
* Br Bernhard Lisson (1909-1978) 27-6-1978: Zimbabue
* Fr Gerhard Pieper (1940-1978) 26-12-1978: Zimbabue
* Fr Gregor Richert (1930-1978) 27-6-1978: Zimbabue
* Fr Christopher Shepherd-Smith (1943-1977) 6-2-1977: Zimbabue
* Fr Martin Thomas (1932-1977) 6-2-1977: Zimbabue
* Fr Silvio Alvés Moreira (1941-1985) 30-10-1985: Mozambique
* Fr João de Deus Gonçalves Kamtedza (1930-1985) 30-10-1985: Mozambique
* Fr Raymond A. Adams (1935-1989) 12-11-1989: Ghana
* Fr Jean de Boisséson (1910-1988) 29-5-1988: Madagascar
* Fr Patrick Gahizi (1946-1994) 7-4-1994: Ruanda
* Fr Chrysologue Mahame (1927-1994) 7-4-1994: Ruanda
* Fr Innocent Rutagambwa (1948-1994) 7-4-1994: Ruanda
* Bp Christophe Munzihirwa Mwene Ngabo (1926-1996) 29-10-1996: Zaire
* Fr Alban De Jerphanion (1901-1976) 14-3-1976: Lebanon
* Fr Louis Dumas (1901-1975) 25-10-1975: Lebanon
* Fr Nicolas Kluiters (1940-1985) 14-3-1985: Lebanon
* Fr André Masse (1940-1987) 24-9-1987: Lebanon
* Mr Richard Michael Fernando (1970-1996) 17-10-1996: Cambodia
* Fr Thomas Anchanikal (1951-1997) 27-10-1997: India
* Fr Thomas E. Gafney (1932-1997) 14-12-1997: India
* Fr Mathew Mannaparambil (1938-1980) 7-3-1980: India
* Fr Francis Louis Martinsek (1912-1979) 24-3-1979: India
* Fr Herman Rasschaert (1922-1964) 24-3-1964: India
* Fr Eugene John Hebert (1923-1990) 15-8-1990: Sri Lanka
* Fr Tarcisio Dewanto 1965-1999 9-9-99: Dili, East Timor
* Fr Karl Albrecht 1929-1999 11-9-99: East Timor

 

[JReducation]

There’s a downside to all “this freedom from”… the Jesuits are “free to” go to some of the most dangerous places in the world and get martyred.

More than 300 Jesuits were martyred in the 20th century.

You’re very right. As you imply, nothing in life is without risks. The problem that we have in the USA with religious is one of control. After WW II Americans rose to be the leading power in economics, military power, and political influence. We thought that we could solve any problem with the push of a button.

Religious constantly shatter that illusion. Here is the most powerful nation in the world, with the power to make or break other countries or destroy the world with a few nuclear warheads. Yet, we can’t control a small group of people.

More than the positions that religious may take, I believe that the most frustrating thing to many American Catholics is the feeling of impotence. Many wish that they could push a button and make religious disappear. They look to the bishops and the popes for the remote control, only to find that there is no such thing.

We don’t like not having control. In this regard, we are very insecure. When faced with a group that we cannot control, we get angry and often very hostile, rather than remain clam and see how it plays out.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV