U.S. Soldiers Mercenaries?

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wabrams:
Last time I checked, India was a very stable country and the entire continent of Africa wasn’t held by the British. With regards to the middle east, the British admitted it was a mistake.
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I guess that’s why the Sikh Temple was trashed. I remember from a few years back hearing that India had the most per capita millionaires and among the worst poverty in the world.

The British admitting a mistake?
 
vern humphrey:
So you agree it isn’t “all about oil?”
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I haven’t once said we went to Iraq over oil. If we did, why am I paying over $3 a gallon for 87 octane.
vern humphrey:
Why not? The only real differnce is I don’t accuse anyone of trying to violate my rights – I simply hold up an alternative to their sense of outrage.http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon12.gif
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Might as well if you have to result to using the “love it or leave it” statement, especially when no one is trashing this country.
 
vern humphrey:
Not like India – for example, how many wives get burned to death by their in-laws? How many “untouchables” do we have? How many riots between Muslims, Hindus, Christians and Sikhs?
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AniIbi:
I guess that’s why the Sikh Temple was trashed. I remember from a few years back hearing that India had the most per capita millionaires and among the worst poverty in the world.
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No inequality here? No race riots in the 20th century? No civil war between 2 regions, partially over race? No equality laws? Not to mention one of the highest murder rates of just about any industrialized nation.
 
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wabrams:
I haven’t once said we went to Iraq over oil. If we did, why am I paying over $3 a gallon for 87 octane.
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Congratulations. You’ve broken the code.
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wabrams:
Might as well if you have to result to using the “love it or leave it” statement, especially when no one is trashing this country.
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Economic imperialism backed up by the United States military.
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But no evidence that this was what we did.
Because we were discussing the U.S.'s attempt’s at imperialism/expansion during the first 1/3 of the 20th century, not peacekeeping missions of a superpower in the latter decade of the 20th century.
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And not any evidence to show that what we did then is any different from what we’re doing now.
I don’t see it that way. He sat back for 33 years and watched how the US would “grant” countries independence only to turn around and rig elections to put candidates in office who would do what the US said to do. Based on that, I would say he had every right to be skeptical.
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And no one can tell us which country were “grant(ed)” indepenence like that.

Yet, despite the fact that there is no evidence, we’re still guilty. And that isn’t “trashing this country?”
 
vern humphrey:
Same thing could be said for every one of those British colonies. http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon12.gif
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What in the world are you talking about?
vern humphrey:
So you’re backing off the claim that they did so much better than we?
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Nope.
vern humphrey:
Actually, you might consider that you said, the British “control(ed) a could chunk of the globe.” That is, they were there longer than we were, and had greater control – with no more visible success.
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Let me see, our only 2 success, though not completely on our own, were Japan and Germany. Japan was an old country, but already a good bit westernized before we took over. Germany was part of the old europe; heck, it was almost like dealing with ourselves b/c we had so much in common with the German people. The Brits made countries out of every backwater, hickish hell holes across the globe who had very little,. if anything, in common with Europeans.
vern humphrey:
Even the former Soviet Union had elections – but the same guys always came out on top.http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon12.gif
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Just like Haiti and Nicaragua when we controlled their elections nearly 70 to 80 years ago!
vern humphrey:
As I said, I used to live there – a man from Mars would be pardoned for thinking Egypt was any different from the run of the mill dictatorships that infest the rest of the Middle East.
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On a completely different note, when and how long did you live there? I’ve heard it’s a pretty neat place.
vern humphrey:
Of course – but it helps if we have a deeper understanding of history so we can examine the conditions and sort the mistakes from the successes.
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I think I heard someone else on this thread say that. :rolleyes:
 
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wabrams:
No inequality here? No race riots in the 20th century? No civil war between 2 regions, partially over race? No equality laws? Not to mention one of the highest murder rates of just about any industrialized nation.
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After saying no one is trashing this country, you dredge up everything you can find against the US.

So, how many wives are burned to death by their inlaws in this country? How many sacred shrines have we stormed, killing the people inside?

If India is so much better, I think the cost of living there is cheaper, too. You might want to relocate. http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon12.gif
 
vern humphrey:
Congratulations. You’ve broken the code.

But no evidence that this was what we did.

And not any evidence to show that what we did then is any different from what we’re doing now.

And no one can tell us which country were “grant(ed)” indepenence like that.

Yet, despite the fact that there is no evidence, we’re still guilty. And that isn’t “trashing this country?”
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There is plenty of evidence of this. Many books have been published on this. Take some time out and go to your local library to research it.
 
Originally Posted by wabrams
No inequality here? No race riots in the 20th century? No civil war between 2 regions, partially over race? No equality laws? Not to mention one of the highest murder rates of just about any industrialized nation.
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vern humphrey:
After saying no one is trashing this country, you dredge up everything you can find against the US.
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If you think the quote above is trashing the US, then you need a reality check. I fail to see how showing that we do have some of the same problems as less developed countries makes me un-American. It has nothing to do with the US, or any other country, it’s just human nature, and how much our past shapes our current thinking.
vern humphrey:
If India is so much better, I think the cost of living there is cheaper, too. You might want to relocate. http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon12.gif
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How quaint. You have nothing better or more intelligent to say than basically “love it or leave it.”
 
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wabrams:
Let me see, our only 2 success, though not completely on our own, were Japan and Germany.
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Japan we did on our own – as we did Korea and a few lesser countries. In Germany we were the senior partnet.

Britain has no such accomplishments.
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wabrams:
Japan was an old country, but already a good bit westernized before we took over.
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You HAVE to be kidding!! Bushido is an example of “westernization?”
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wabrams:
Germany was part of the old europe;
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and had a democratic tradition stretching back almost 15 years (the Weimar Republic, which collapsed into Nazism.)
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wabrams:
The Brits made countries out of every backwater, hickish hell holes across the globe who had very little,. if anything, in common with Europeans.
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And from Burma to Iraq, they tended to collapse into tribalism and dictatorships.
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wabrams:
Just like Haiti and Nicaragua when we controlled their elections nearly 70 to 80 years ago!
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Jimmy Carter was around supervising elections in those days? :rolleyes:

One of the things we did was hold supervised elections, and maintain law and order to prevent the elections being influenced by violence. What’s wrong with that?
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wabrams:
On a completely different note, when and how long did you live there? I’ve heard it’s a pretty neat place.
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From '54 to '56 – I was there right after the Nasser-Naiguib “revolution” and watched the “revolution” at work. I still correspond with friends from those days.
 
vern humphrey:
You HAVE to be kidding!! Bushido is an example of “westernization?”
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I was speaking more to the westernization from the 1870’s to the 1920’s (?) when bushido was re-introduced. Enough of a seed took hold that we weren’t working with a feudal society.
vern humphrey:
One of the things we did was hold supervised elections, and maintain law and order to prevent the elections being influenced by violence. What’s wrong with that?
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Nothing’s wrong with that, unless you think it was ok for us to fix those elections.
 
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wabrams:
I was speaking more to the westernization from the 1870’s to the 1920’s (?) when bushido was re-introduced. Enough of a seed took hold that we weren’t working with a feudal society.
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Riiight. The Japanese were Westernized from the 1870s to the 1920s.http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon12.gif

Wrong. The Japanese adopted western industrial techniques and built western-style armies and navies, but never integrated western values into their culture.

As for feudalism, what do you think a zaibatsu is?
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wabrams:
Nothing’s wrong with that, unless you think it was ok for us to fix those elections.
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By preventing violence and fraud, we “fixed” the elections?

Jimmy Carter will be surprised to learn that.http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon10.gif
 
vern humphrey:
Riiight. The Japanese were Westernized from the 1870s to the 1920s.http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon12.gif

Wrong. The Japanese adopted western industrial techniques and built western-style armies and navies, but never integrated western values into their culture.

As for feudalism, what do you think a zaibatsu is?
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Zaibatsu was nothing more than banking clans, almost on par with our mafia. I think the push to dissolve the bushido code in the 1870’s was a huge step in doing away with feudalism.
vern humphrey:
By preventing violence and fraud, we “fixed” the elections?

Jimmy Carter will be surprised to learn that.http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon10.gif
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You can’t prevent fraud when you are the one committing it.

BTW, your Jimmy Carter references hold about as much water as a leaky ship.
 
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wabrams:
Zaibatsu was nothing more than banking clans, almost on par with our mafia. I think the push to dissolve the bushido code in the 1870’s was a huge step in doing away with feudalism.
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You really don’t have a clue, do you?
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wabrams:
You can’t prevent fraud when you are the one committing it.
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You got some documentation for that? I mean some real documentation, not just someone who agrees with you?
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wabrams:
BTW, your Jimmy Carter references hold about as much water as a leaky ship.
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Jimmy will be devastated to hear that.http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon10.gif
 
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