UK Has Record High Abortions

[gam197]

My question had 2 parts. UK Abortion law AND prolife causes. Can you address the second part of my question?

I think most posters on here could give you the overall causes. Refer to post #14.

 

[gam197]

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

99% of abortions in
England & Wales were
funded by the NHS in
2019, with 74% of all
abortions taking place
in the independent
sector.

Figures tell the story.

 

[Allie1]

I think most posters on here could give you the overall causes. Refer to post #14

You are confused about my use of the word cause.
I am not using the word cause as in the causes of abortion in Post 14.

From the dictionary I am using the word “causes” in another way.

Cause- “A principle, ideal, goal or movement to which a person or group is dedicated”

Do you know of prolife causes in the UK? Or, to state another way are you knowledgeable of prolife movements in the UK?

 

[gam197]

I really had no narrative except that abortion rates against were uo in the UK and it has been a pattern

From report…

Of the 209,519 abortions notified as taking place in England and Wales, 207,384
were to residents of England and Wales. This represents an age-standardised
abortion rate (ASR) of 18.0 per 1,000 resident women aged 15-44. The ASR rate
has increased since 2018, (17.4 per 1,000 resident women aged 15-44). This is
the highest rate recorded, exceeding the previous peak in 2007, (17.9 abortions

This is an interesting paragraph because abortion mainly from UK not Ireland.(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

 

[Allie1]

Thank you for the link. I have been spending some time navigating through their website since you posted it to me. It is an interest to me to learn of upcoming abortion legislation currently taking place in the UK. It is also an interest to me to learn about the prolife movements in other countries.

 

[gam197]

Hardly surprising, as Ireland (leaving aside the six counties) is an independent state.
[/quote]

There were seven grounds for abortion A-G but only one was mainly used, C.

In 2019, 98% of abortions (202,975) were performed
under ground C.

That the pregnancy has NOT exceeded its 24th week and
that the continuance of the pregnancy would involve risk,
greater than if the pregnancy were terminated, of injury to
the physical or mental health of the pregnant woman

Late term abortions get muddy

Ground E abortions are those performed because of fetal abnormality at any
gestation. There were 3,183 abortions performed under ground E in 2019. This is
a slight fall since 2018, when there were 3,269

10% of ground E abortions were performed at under 13 weeks in 2019. 66% were
performed at 15 weeks and over. There were 275 ground E abortions at 24 weeks
and over

We do not know because it is not accurate. One figure says 66% were performed at 15 weeks or older. All their other figures don’t have a problem.

 

[_Ruby]

Late term abortions get muddy

Ground E abortions are those performed because of fetal abnormality at any
gestation. There were 3,183 abortions performed under ground E in 2019. This is
a slight fall since 2018, when there were 3,269

10% of ground E abortions were performed at under 13 weeks in 2019. 66% were
performed at 15 weeks and over. There were 275 ground E abortions at 24 weeks
and over

I may have misread the original stats - but which part is ‘not accurate’?

 

[gam197]

I am glad to hear there are at least some groups still fighting to lower rates because seem to increasing.

Interestinly too is that 40% had prior abortions. I can;t imagine the damage being done to their bodies.

 

[_Ruby]

The rates of abortion are way up in the UK,. There is no culpability, no call to look at the issues and reduce the rate.

You don’t think a government/welfare state which relies upon at least replacement rate fertility for its sustenance and a publicly funded healthcare system would NOT want to reduce abortions based on cost factors alone?

Abortion in the UK is not a hot political issue, but all NHS trusts have a vested interest in reducing healthcare costs, and pregnancy prevention is cheaper than abortion. To claim that there is ‘no call’ to reduce the rate shows an outstanding ignorance of the current landscape in the UK.

 

[gam197]

gam197:

Ground E abortions are those performed because of fetal abnormality at any

gestation. There were 3,183 abortions performed under ground E in 2019. This is
a slight fall since 2018, when there were 3,269

10% of ground E abortions were performed at under 13 weeks in 2019. 66% were
performed at 15 weeks and over. There were 275 ground E abortions at 24 weeks
and over

I may have misread the original stats - but which part is ‘not accurate’?

They state the E abortions can be at any age gestation up to birth . We know there are 3,269 E abotions. Sixty six(66) percent were performed at 15 weeks or older so it that at 30 weeks. We do not know. Yet they are precise in most other figures.

 

[gam197]

You don’t think a government/welfare state which relies upon at least replacement rate fertility for its sustenance and a publicly funded healthcare system would NOT want to reduce abortions based on cost factors alone?

Abortion in the UK is not a hot political issue, but all NHS trusts have a vested interest in reducing healthcare costs, and pregnancy prevention is cheaper than abortion. To claim that there is ‘no call’ to reduce the rate shows an outstanding ignorance of the current landscape in the UK.

Are you also from the UK? Ir has been stated that there seem to be no political party that wants to touch it. No real call for change.

 

[_Ruby]

_Ruby:

gam197:

Ground E abortions are those performed because of fetal abnormality at any

gestation. There were 3,183 abortions performed under ground E in 2019. This is
a slight fall since 2018, when there were 3,269

10% of ground E abortions were performed at under 13 weeks in 2019. 66% were
performed at 15 weeks and over. There were 275 ground E abortions at 24 weeks
and over

I may have misread the original stats - but which part is ‘not accurate’?

They state the E abortions can be at any age gestation up to birth . We know there are 3,269 E abotions. Sixty six(66) percent were performed at 15 weeks or older so it that at 30 weeks. We do not know. Yet they are precise in most other figures.

Have you looked at the actual data breakdowns provided?

Abortion statistics for England and Wales: 2019

Statistics and commentary on abortions carried out in 2019.

www.gov.uk

They do breakdown further by gestation. It even clarifies further in the data summary about those over 15 weeks and those over 24 weeks. The one benefit of the NHS being a country wide organisation covering 99% of abortion means that EVERYTHING is coded including the week of pregnancy at the time of termination. There are less than 1% of abortions taking place in the private sector, and any late term abortions are almost exclusively dealt with by NHS hospitals. It is impossible to be ‘inaccurate’, we can not, in any way conceivable, perform a procedure without those basic coding details.

Are you also from the UK? Ir has been stated that there seem to be no political party that wants to touch it. No real call for change.

Yes. And I work in the NHS, hence my more than layman’s knowledge of how medical procedure coding works.

 

[_Ruby]

The impact of Brexit in 2019 would have had no small effect - the predictions of economic collapse, housing market collapse, recession etc etc would have made any person unsure of continuing pregnancy even more unsure.

I had a baby in late 2019 as a couple living just outside of London earning 95k a year as a household. We could only just make it work finically with our mortgage, bills, commuting costs and my stat maternity pay. I could only afford to go back to work because my mum is providing childcare 3 days per week. If she didn’t, I only earn a little over the 40k odd that is required to even make paying for childcare economically feasible in London. With the changes to child benefit, we earn too much to make it worth claiming without the tax penalty.

Our income is far higher than the national average, our house is only a 3 bedroom. I am in awe of how people make it work on less. Those are the actual, tangible issues people are dealing with - not Prince Phillip’s comments on population.

 

[gam197]

There are many factors that play a part if abortion.

They do breakdown further by gestation. It even clarifies further in the data summary about those over 15 weeks and those over 24 weeks. The one benefit of the NHS being a country wide organisation covering 99% of abortion means that EVERYTHING is coded including the week of pregnancy at the time of termination. There are less than 1% of abortions taking place in the private sector, and any late term abortions are almost exclusively dealt with by NHS hospitals. It is impossible to be ‘inaccurate’, we can not, in any way conceivable, perform a procedure without those basic coding details

You sent me a bunch of reports. I has looked through the first one. Could you tell me which exact report explains late term abortion data and gives facts on age on gestation? You believe that these 3,200 abortions are not late term is that, correct?

I had a baby in late 2019 as a couple living just outside of London earning 95k a year as a household. We could only just make it work finically with our mortgage, bills, commuting costs and my stat maternity pay. I could only afford to go back to work because my mum is providing childcare 3 days per week. If she didn’t, I only earn a little over the 40k odd that is required to even make paying for childcare economically feasible in London. With the changes to child benefit, we earn too much to make it worth claiming without the tax penalty

I understand monetary issues but abortion is never a solution.

 

[gam197]

And nor did Ruby say it was, she is trying to broaden your understanding of the topic behind tabloid media pieces and comments about members of the Royal Family and their comments and show how much more serious and urgent issues motivate people.
[/quote]

These issues of monetary and lack of support are not new. I was commenting that it does not help when people of influence, yes the monarchy, take a public stand on the the need for population control to prevent hurting the planet… There could be others who can well afford a child but decide against because they believe they are hurting the planet.

 

[_Ruby]

You sent me a bunch of reports. I has looked through the first one. Could you tell me which exact report explains late term abortion data and gives facts on age on gestation? You believe that these 3,200 abortions are not late term is that, correct?

I sent you the link to just 3 reports, one of which is the actual data sets.

Tables 9a, 9b and 9c specifically address and breakdown all the data for ground E abortions, including procedure type, gestational weeks and the foetal abnormally.

I did not say they were not late term.

I had a baby in late 2019 as a couple living just outside of London earning 95k a year as a household. We could only just make it work finically with our mortgage, bills, commuting costs and my stat maternity pay. I could only afford to go back to work because my mum is providing childcare 3 days per week. If she didn’t, I only earn a little over the 40k odd that is required to even make paying for childcare economically feasible in London. With the changes to child benefit, we earn too much to make it worth claiming without the tax penalty

I understand monetary issues but abortion is never a solution.
[/quote]

I didn’t say it was a solution. I said those were real life concerns as a woman, in the UK in 2019. Ones that hold weight for the vast majority of people rather than the tiny number who may live their lives on an interpretation of what the royal family say on the environment.

 

[gam197]

There are many factors that play a part if abortion.

I sent you the link to just 3 reports, one of which is the actual data sets.

Tables 9a, 9b and 9c specifically address and breakdown all the data for ground E abortions, including procedure type, gestational weeks and the foetal abnormally.

I did not say they were not late term.

So you do not know. Just trying to clear up the understanding on this number.

 

[_Ruby]

There are many factors that play a part if abortion.

I sent you the link to just 3 reports, one of which is the actual data sets.

Tables 9a, 9b and 9c specifically address and breakdown all the data for ground E abortions, including procedure type, gestational weeks and the foetal abnormally.

I did not say they were not late term.

So you do not know. Just trying to clear up the understanding on this number.

Gam, I am really not following you here.

YOU stated that the stats for ground E abortions were not '‘accurate’. I pointed you in the direction of the actual data set numbers and breakdown tables for all ground E abortions.

What exactly are you claiming is not ‘accurate’?

 

[_Ruby]

Id link the table directly, but i’m on my macbook and excel is not co-operting (I had to switch to my windows work laptop to look at them myself).

Abortion statistics for England and Wales: 2019

Statistics and commentary on abortions carried out in 2019.

www.gov.uk

Its the third document in that link - its all the underlying abortion data that feeds into the overall 2019 summary.

Truly, a this point, i’m even confused over what the original confusion was about!! Hopefully Gam can clear it up soon though

 

[gam197]

Then why did you post this earlier in the thread if you are aware of the criteria for post 24 week abortion and that most women in the UK having an abortion do not fall into this group?
[/quote]

I was ask specifically 2 questions by Allie. First question was did I know anything about abortion in UK so I posted an article from BBC with information which is the post you have listed. It was infor about abortion in the UK.

I said 210,000 women was a total number for all abortions in the UK.

Abortions can take place in the first 24 weeks of pregnancy in England, Scotland and Wales.

However, they have to be approved by two doctors. They must agree having the baby would pose a greater risk to the physical or mental health of the woman than a termination.

Abortions were illegal before the the introduction of the 1967 Abortion Act, which initially allowed them to take place up to 28 weeks. This was reduced to 24 weeks in 1990.