These people were not born yesterday. They understand the situation better than any of us thousands of miles away.
They wanted them out, like the Iraqis and Afghans.P.S. And what did the Polish, i.e., the natives, think of Soviet occupation?
How can Yanokuvich be Russia’s ‘puppet’ when he stood for 3 hours in September 2013, to get his party to choose the EU as the better deal, not Russia. How was he siding with Russia at this point?
And? So did the Germans. They were fighting for the Fatherland against the evil Western powers who didn’t want a new, powerful Germany under Adolf Hitler. Your point? I don’t see how this helps us any at the moment
They do if that foreign power has taken over the government institutions of the region where the referendum is then held, then block off all outside media channels, intimidate minorities (ie the Tartars), refuse to allow opposition campaigns to run and then do not give people a valid choice on the ballot papers. This is not a valid referendum. Since I come from a country which is going to hold a valid referendum, I should know, these things take years to sort out fairly and democratically. All this happened with the sweep of a pen, in less than a month. Russia now considers Crimea part of its territory, while Ukraine has had absolutely no say in its own territory being grabbed from it.
That’s further reason to play by the rules. This isn’t Kosovo II.
Exactly. Foreign soldiers, whether Russian or American or Soviet mean pretty much the same thing to locals. You don’t understand this because you’re from a country which can’t remember a foreign army of occupation. But if elections are free in Iraq so they can be free in Crimea.And? So did the Germans. They were fighting for the Fatherland against the evil Western powers who didn’t want a new, powerful Germany under Adolf Hitler. Your point? I don’t see how this helps us any at the moment
There were foreign observers who said the referendum was fair.
Perhaps you missed my post #374:
So in answer to your question, I don’t think they understand the situation very well, i.e., they are being misled by propaganda, moreover, you are discounting 42% of the population that is not Russian ethnic.
Fine, but I still don’t see how all this talk of Iraqis or Afghans relates to what’s happening in the Ukraine.
That doesn’t prove anything. Maybe the situation has changed. But I’d be insulted if someone so far away said I was simply being manipulated by propaganda when I’ve spent my entire life in a country. It’s not like we could not be manipulated either. Our media is entirely honest. And we really know what people think on the ground. And Putin must be bad.
It’s a point that foreign soldiers don’t invalidate referendums and elections by their presence. And saying “oh but the British in Iraq were the good guys” is your POV but you’re not the one who’s experiencing the foreign occupation.
Exactly. Foreign soldiers, whether Russian or American or Soviet mean pretty much the same thing to locals. You don’t understand this because you’re from a country which can’t remember a foreign army of occupation. But if elections are free in Iraq so they can be free in Crimea.
I recall going to vote with my family, years ago, in NI, with armed British soldiers walking up and down the street, and outside the polling offices.
There were foreign observers who said the referendum was fair.
Valid choice what was wrong with the choices? Please explain to me.
Which may be because Northern Ireland is part of the UK. They were not, therefore, foreign troops
On paper. For those who want independence from Britain they are foreigners.Which may be because Northern Ireland is part of the UK. They were not, therefore, foreign troops
Well that all depended on which foot you kicked with, and the whole basis of the ‘troubles’ was nationalists v unionists. They eventually left after 38 years.Which may be because Northern Ireland is part of the UK. They were not, therefore, foreign troops
But that was a religious conflict, riiiight?
PS:
I should add that I am not wishing to drag up the very tortuous history of Northern Ireland and British-Irish relations in general. As a Scot with an Irish surname myself (I have a very Irish surname
), its kinda difficult history if you get my drift, for both of us in different ways. I was merely pointing out that technically I’m not sure its a good comparison given that legally speaking Britain wasn’t a foreign country to NI 
Well, if you consider that those voting were Russian ethnics, then I guess everything was “fair”, i.e., but that does not mean the referendum itself was legal or that it offered choices that were valid to 42% of the population in Crimea that was not Russian ethnic?
There was no option on the ballot box allowing to remain within the Ukraine as is, i.e., for 42% of the population that wasn’t Russian Ethnic there weren’t any valid choices, that’s why it was boycotted by Ukrainians and Tatars.
Yeah but the non-joining Russia option could have allowed for further clarification of the rights of the minorities. More could have followed from that. Then again 58% > 42%. But then protections of minority rights are needed, I agree.
Yes, for all intent and purposes, it was essentially protestants against catholics. The protestants / unionists wishing to remain in the UK under British rule and the nationalists who wished to have a united Ireland.But that was a religious conflict, riiiight?
So if the Unionists became Catholics then it would have been resolved? Imagine that scenario.