Ukraine (cont.)

[AnastasiaRomano]

Ukrainian Catholics experiencing ‘total persecution’ in Crimea:
catholicnewsagency.com/news/ukrainian-catholics-experiencing-total-persecution-in-crimea/

After the referendum, the Ukrainian Orthodox Church-Kyiv Patriarchate fears ban in Crimea:
asianews.it/news-en/After-the-referendum,-the-Ukrainian-Church-Kyiv-Patriarchate-fears-ban-in-Crimea-30577.html

 

[josie_L]

Eh? There’s plenty of time for buyer’s remorse later.

Tell that to the 42% of Ukrainians and Tatars that don’t want to be part of the Russian Federation at all.

 

[josie_L]

Ukrainian Catholics experiencing ‘total persecution’ in Crimea:
catholicnewsagency.com/news/ukrainian-catholics-experiencing-total-persecution-in-crimea/

After the referendum, the Ukrainian Orthodox Church-Kyiv Patriarchate fears ban in Crimea:
asianews.it/news-en/After-the-referendum,-the-Ukrainian-Church-Kyiv-Patriarchate-fears-ban-in-Crimea-30577.html

As I said it was only a matter of time that the minorities were going to be persecuted. And I love how some “pro-Russian” forces called our priests “agents of the Vatican”, it harkens back to Soviet rule.

 

[M-Dent]

Tell that to the 42% of Ukrainians and Tatars that don’t want to be part of the Russian Federation at all.

They may have a tough go of it. Starting where they live?

MOSCOW, March 18 (RIA Novosti) – Ukraine’s breakaway region of Crimea will ask Tatars to vacate part of the land where they now live in exchange for new territory elsewhere in the region, a top Crimean government official said Tuesday.

Crimean Deputy Prime Minister Rustam Temirgaliyev said in an interview with RIA Novosti on Tuesday the new government in Crimea, where residents voted Sunday to become part of Russia, wants to regularize the land unofficially taken over by Crimean Tatar squatters following the collapse of the Soviet Union.

“We have asked the Crimean Tatars to vacate part of their land, which is required for social needs,” Temirgaliyev said. “But we are ready to allocate and legalize many other plots of land to ensure a normal life for the Crimean Tatars,” he said.

en.ria.ru/world/20140319/188544777/Crimean-Tatars-Will-Have-to-Vacate-Land–Official.html

 

[Ridgerunner]

We’ll have to agree to disagree. I’ve posted many times my viewpoint on the entire scenario.

A coup, an illegal Ukrainian neo-nazi government set-up, an autonomous republic that wants to go back to Russia and/or get out of Ukraine, but most importantly to become a republic. Crimea got what they wanted, too. IF it is all a ‘big farce’ and Crimea was ‘invaded’ against their will and the vote was a sham, Crimea will turn out similar to NI and other countries that do not like their ‘rulers’ - there’ll be riots, terrorist groups setting themselves up, bombs going off, etc…

Neo Nazi indeed! That’s what all leftists call their opponents, here as in Ukraine; a terrible slander used to cover the crimes of the totalitarian-minded. So, the Catholic leaders in Ukraine, the Tatars and ethnic Ukrainians who are fleeing Crimea, are all “neo-Nazis”. A terrible slander.

The vote, as you know, took place under occupation by a foreign army. Nobody could call that an expression of what Crimea wanted. This was a Soviet era-type vote in which only one outcome could be voted on.

There will be no opportunity for “buyer’s remorse” to express itself. Russia is far too good at suppression for it to have any effect, as the Chechens would readily testify. But likely Russia will simply enhance the “ethnic cleansing” that they are now doing in Crimea.

The only remaining question is how much of Ukraine Russia wants to devour.

 

[Ridgerunner]

They may have a tough go of it. Starting where they live?

Stalin did the very same thing with various nationalities, including the Tatars. It was as big a sham then as this one is now. It’s simply “ethnic cleansing” under another name.

 

[tomarin]

Tell that to the 42% of Ukrainians and Tatars that don’t want to be part of the Russian Federation at all.

What I meant was, even the ethnic Russians in Crimea who voted to secede from Ukraine may regret it later.

 

[pepipop]

Neo Nazi indeed! That’s what all leftists call their opponents, here as in Ukraine; a terrible slander used to cover the crimes of the totalitarian-minded. So, the Catholic leaders in Ukraine, the Tatars and ethnic Ukrainians who are fleeing Crimea, are all “neo-Nazis”. A terrible slander.

The vote, as you know, took place under occupation by a foreign army. Nobody could call that an expression of what Crimea wanted. This was a Soviet era-type vote in which only one outcome could be voted on.

There will be no opportunity for “buyer’s remorse” to express itself. Russia is far too good at suppression for it to have any effect, as the Chechens would readily testify. But likely Russia will simply enhance the “ethnic cleansing” that they are now doing in Crimea.

The only remaining question is how much of Ukraine Russia wants to devour.

Don’t twist other posters words. I have never, ever, once referred to the Catholic leaders in Ukraine, the Tatars or ethnic Ukrainians as “neo-Nazis”, why would I? I wonder who is being slanderous.

I was referring ONLY to the ‘new’ Ukrainian government, that includes the Svoboda party, which the EU asked the Verkhovna Rada not to associate with, endorse or form any coalitions with this party in their European Parliament resolution of 13 December 2012 on the situation in Ukraine.

europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?pubRef=-//EP//TEXT+TA+P7-TA-2012-0507+0+DOC+XML+V0//EN

8. Is concerned about the rising nationalistic sentiment in Ukraine, expressed in support for the Svoboda Party, which, as a result, is one of the two new parties to enter the Verkhovna Rada; recalls that racist, anti-Semitic and xenophobic views go against the EU’s fundamental values and principles and therefore appeals to pro-democratic parties in the Verkhovna Rada not to associate with, endorse or form coalitions with this party;

Their behaviour, to date, in smaller regions, outwith Kiev, that are more pro-Russian is testament to that. The most recent being the beating up the CEO of the Ukrainian state TV.
*
**Three MPs of Ukraine’s far-right Svoboda party have attacked the head of state TV company and forced him to resign.
**
Dramatic footage showed ultranationalists beating Aleksandr Panteleymonov, the acting president of the National Television Company of Ukraine, over the public broadcasting of Vladimir Putin and pro-Russian Crimea leaders signing the annexation treaty.

National Television Company (NTU) is state-run and operates Ukraine’s largest public broadcaster, First National Channel.

One attacker, ponytail wearing MP Igor Myroshnychenko, is shown along with other two Svoboda members pushing Panteleymonov, dragging him and pulling his tie to restrain him to a chair. The mob then forced him to sign a letter of resignation.

Ultranationalism in Ukraine traces its roots to World War II resistance against Soviet occupation, when partisans struck a loose alliance with the Nazis. Tyagnybok took the reins of the party in February 2004, when it was still called the Social-National Party of Ukraine and had a swastika-like logo.

He has marginalised neo-Nazis among party ranks, while keeping up the anti-Semitic rhetoric at the same time.
*
ibtimes.co.uk/ukraine-far-right-svoboda-party-mps-beating-state-tv-ceo-caught-youtube-1440943

 

[Ridgerunner]

Don’t twist other posters words. I have never, ever, once referred to the Catholic leaders in Ukraine, the Tatars or ethnic Ukrainians as “neo-Nazis”, why would I? I wonder who is being slanderous.

I was referring ONLY to the ‘new’ Ukrainian government, that includes the Svoboda party, which the EU asked the Verkhovna Rada not to associate with, endorse or form any coalitions with this party in their European Parliament resolution of 13 December 2012 on the situation in Ukraine.

europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?pubRef=-//EP//TEXT+TA+P7-TA-2012-0507+0+DOC+XML+V0//EN

8. Is concerned about the rising nationalistic sentiment in Ukraine, expressed in support for the Svoboda Party, which, as a result, is one of the two new parties to enter the Verkhovna Rada; recalls that racist, anti-Semitic and xenophobic views go against the EU’s fundamental values and principles and therefore appeals to pro-democratic parties in the Verkhovna Rada not to associate with, endorse or form coalitions with this party;

Their behaviour, to date, in smaller regions, outwith Kiev, that are more pro-Russian is testament to that. The most recent being the beating up the CEO of the Ukrainian state TV.
*
**Three MPs of Ukraine’s far-right Svoboda party have attacked the head of state TV company and forced him to resign.

---

Dramatic footage showed ultranationalists beating Aleksandr Panteleymonov, the acting president of the National Television Company of Ukraine, over the public broadcasting of Vladimir Putin and pro-Russian Crimea leaders signing the annexation treaty.

National Television Company (NTU) is state-run and operates Ukraine’s largest public broadcaster, First National Channel.

One attacker, ponytail wearing MP Igor Myroshnychenko, is shown along with other two Svoboda members pushing Panteleymonov, dragging him and pulling his tie to restrain him to a chair. The mob then forced him to sign a letter of resignation.

Ultranationalism in Ukraine traces its roots to World War II resistance against Soviet occupation, when partisans struck a loose alliance with the Nazis. Tyagnybok took the reins of the party in February 2004, when it was still called the Social-National Party of Ukraine and had a swastika-like logo.

He has marginalised neo-Nazis among party ranks, while keeping up the anti-Semitic rhetoric at the same time.

ibtimes.co.uk/ukraine-far-right-svoboda-party-mps-beating-state-tv-ceo-caught-youtube-1440943

Can’t keep yourself from it, can you?

 

[pepipop]

Can’t keep yourself from it, can you?

Well, I’m glad one of us got the ‘joke’.

 

[josie_L]

What I meant was, even the ethnic Russians in Crimea who voted to secede from Ukraine may regret it later.

More than likely they will.

 

[Robert_Sock]

Russia and the US are really strong allies. The mass media spreads tons of deception, yet we usually take them verbatim. Why?

 

[Nelka]

Russia and the US are really strong allies. The mass media spreads tons of deception, yet we usually take them verbatim. Why?

The media is a monster.

It doesn’t matter whether it is international stuff or not, they some how get away with spreading lies all the time.

Do you think the media would like Russia and America having a chat and fixing problems? No, the media want problems, the media would love a war, don’t forget who the big boss of the media is: Satan.

 

[josie_L]

Here’s a brief description of Svoboda from Wikipedia:

Political image

In February 2004, the arrival of Oleh Tyahnybok as party leader led a significant change in moderating the party’s image.[47] Then still the Social-National Party of Ukraine, it changed its name to the All-Ukrainian Union “Svoboda”,[2] and abandoned the “I + N” (“Idea Natsii” Ukrainian “idea of a nation”) Wolfsangel logo (a symbol popular among neo-Nazi groups)[2][35] with a three-fingered hand reminiscent of the ‘Tryzub’ pro-independence gesture of the late 1980s.[35] Svoboda also pushed neo-Nazi and other radical groups out the party,[84] distancing itself from its neofascist past while retaining the support of extreme nationalists.[47]

Olexiy Haran, a political science professor at the Kyiv-Mohyla Academy, says “There is a lot of misunderstanding surrounding Svoboda" and that the party is not fascist, but radical.[85] Ihor Kolomoyskyi, president of the United Jewish Community of Ukraine, stated in 2010 that the party has clearly shifted from the far-right to the center.[86]

Political scientist Andreas Umland predicted the party would continue to become more moderate over time, and that “there’s a belief that Svoboda will change, once in the Verkhovna Rada, and that they may become proper national democrats.”[48] Since then, the party has gained seats in parliament and has net over 10% of the national vote in the 2012 parliamentary elections. The US ambassador in Kiev, Geoffrey Pyatt, said in 2014 that he had been “positively impressed” by Svoboda’s evolution in opposition and by its behavior in parliament. “They have demonstrated their democratic bona fides,” the ambassador asserted.[83]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svoboda_(political_party

 

[Robert_Sock]

The media is a monster.

It doesn’t matter whether it is international stuff or not, they some how get away with spreading lies all the time.

Do you think the media would like Russia and America having a chat and fixing problems? No, the media want problems, the media would love a war, don’t forget who the big boss of the media is: Satan.

Revelation 12:9 RSV
And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the Devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world–he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.

People just do not pay heed to the scriptures.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Here’s a brief description of Svoboda from Wikipedia:

With only 10% of the seats in parliament going to Svoboda, and only 1% of the people of Ukraine belonging to any party at all, it’s a major stretch to accuse the real Ukrainians or those who protested a sellout to Russia of being a bunch of “neo nazis” or “anti-semites” or any of the things the promoters of the New Soviet Union folks want to call them.

 

[josie_L]

All the same, the charges that Euromaidan is defined primarily by fascism and anti-Semitism is a little rich coming from the people making it, as Timothy Snyder discusses in the New York Review of Books:

The protests in the Maidan, we are told again and again by Russian propaganda and by the Kremlin’s friends in Ukraine, mean the return of National Socialism to Europe. The Russian foreign minister, in Munich, lectured the Germans about their support of people who salute Hitler. The Russian media continually make the claim that the Ukrainians who protest are Nazis. Naturally, it is important to be attentive to the far right in Ukrainian politics and history. It is still a serious presence today, although less important than the far right in France, Austria, or the Netherlands.** Yet it is the Ukrainian regime rather than its opponents that resorts to anti-Semitism, instructing its riot police that the opposition is led by Jews. In other words, the Ukrainian government is telling itself that its opponents are Jews and us that its opponents are Nazis.**

The strange thing about the claim from Moscow is the political ideology of those who make it. [Vladimir Putin’s proposed] Eurasian Union is the enemy of the European Union, not just in strategy but in ideology. The European Union is based on a historical lesson: that the wars of the twentieth century were based on false and dangerous ideas, National Socialism and Stalinism, which must be rejected and indeed overcome in a system guaranteeing free markets, free movement of people, and the welfare state. Eurasianism, by contrast, is presented by its advocates as the opposite of liberal democracy.

slate.com/blogs/the_world_/2014/02/20/russia_says_the_ukrainian_protesters_are_fascists_and_nazis_are_they.html

 

[josie_L]

With only 10% of the seats in parliament going to Svoboda, and only 1% of the people of Ukraine belonging to any party at all, it’s a major stretch to accuse the real Ukrainians or those who protested a sellout to Russia of being a bunch of “neo nazis” or “anti-semites” or any of the things the promoters of the New Soviet Union folks want to call them.

Yes, it is a major stretch, moreover, Svodoba is not the neo-Nazi party that some like to portray it.

P.S. Although I wonder why those who disagree with us are not making a to do about “pro-Russians” trying to protect statues of Lenin (and waving Soviet flags)?

 

[Miserissima]

Yes, it is a major stretch, moreover, Svodoba is not the neo-Nazi party that some like to portray it.

P.S. Although I wonder why those who disagree with us are not making a to do about “pro-Russians” trying to protect statues of Lenin (and waving Soviet flags)?

Saw it on RT: Pro Russian supporters “rallied” around statutes of Lenin, lest the statutes be defaced. (As opposed to rallying in the local square that happened to have a statue of Lenin!) HA!

 

[josie_L]

Saw it on RT: Pro Russian supporters “rallied” around statutes of Lenin, lest the statutes be defaced. (As opposed to rallying in the local square that happened to have a statue of Lenin!) HA!

Yes, the “statutes” of Lenin are being protected. I know, I know, it was your phone’s fault.