Ukraine (cont.)

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Ridgerunner said:
Just looked at the Youtube video tendered to prove that all Ukrainian priests are racists and killers. It’s in Ukrainian or perhaps Russian with dubbing by some unknown person or entity. No credits are given. No verification of the source.

This should be consigned to the rubbish heap of propaganda until someone like Kyiv Andrew listens to it and determines what this man (if he really is a priest and not some Russian imposter, which is also not demonstrated) really said.

I recall reading, not long ago, of the KGB falsification of the history of Pope Pius XII during WWII, written by Ion Pacepa who was formerly the head of the KGB affiliate in Romania. The KGB and its affiliates did a lot of stuff like this, and as to Pope Pius XII, actually got a lot of people in the West to believe it even though it was totally fabricated. They did a lot of falsification of things about the Church and priests, and a lot of people believed that too. Looks like the KGB Colonel might not have forgotten old ways learned young.
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Yes, it was true and his speeches were condemned by the head of the UGCC.

*risu.org.ua/en/index/all_news/confessional/religious_relations/54616/

The head of the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church (UGCC), Patriarch Sviatoslav Shevchuk, and Chief Rabbi of Kyiv and Ukraine Yaakov Dov Bleich on December 12 jointly opposed the extremist speech by a priest from Ivano-Frankivsk. “We strongly condemn the December speech made by priest Mykhailo Arsenych which contradicts the mission of the priest,” states the statement to the faithful and the entire Ukrainian society.

The UGCC Information Department reported that the homily by Father Mykhailo Arsenych of the Kolomyia-Chernivtsi Eparchy of the UGCC featured aggressiveness and radicalism. A video of this speech and previous ones have been spreading across the Internet and caused a heated debate and accusations against the church. As noted in the statement, such views “have nothing to do with the views and practices of the UGCC, and they contradict the official doctrine of the church and the guidelines of its clergy.”*
 
pepipop said:
Yes, it was true and his speeches were condemned by the head of the UGCC.

risu.org.ua/en/index/all_news/confessional/religious_relations/54616/

The head of the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church (UGCC), Patriarch Sviatoslav Shevchuk, and Chief Rabbi of Kyiv and Ukraine Yaakov Dov Bleich on December 12 jointly opposed the extremist speech by a priest from Ivano-Frankivsk. “We strongly condemn the December speech made by priest Mykhailo Arsenych which contradicts the mission of the priest,” states the statement to the faithful and the entire Ukrainian society.

The UGCC Information Department reported that the homily by Father Mykhailo Arsenych of the Kolomyia-Chernivtsi Eparchy of the UGCC featured aggressiveness and radicalism. A video of this speech and previous ones have been spreading across the Internet and caused a heated debate and accusations against the church. As noted in the statement, such views “have nothing to do with the views and practices of the UGCC, and they contradict the official doctrine of the church and the guidelines of its clergy.”
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The Patriarch and the Rabbi certainly do condemn a speech by Arsenych if, indeed, this publication is genuine. But we don’t know what it was, and the circumstances don’t point to a 2010 video as claimed by the Youtube source. The Patriarch and the Rabbi, on 12/12/13 condemned a speech made “in December” by Arsenych, suggesting they were condemning something said in December 2013. Maybe whatever Arsenych said in 12/2013 was worthy of condemnation. One is inclined to believe so. But one is disinclined to believe it was the 2010 Youtube video they were talking about, and there’s no particular reason, then, to believe the 2010 video is Arsenych or that the translation by the mystery translator is genuine.

But even if somehow the 2010 speech can be reconciled NOT to be as doubtful as it is or is similar to what he said in 2013, and if Arsenych really said what he is asserted by the Youtube translator to have said, all it really proves is that there is a “Jeremiah Wright” sort of priest in Ukraine. After all, there’s one in Chicago too, in the person of father Michael Pfleger.

But none of that tells us that any significant number of priests are like Fr Arsenych or Fr Pfleger, or that all Catholics are or that all of their countrymen are. Nor does it mean that he has any influence on anything. As we know, Fr Pfleger is an outlier whose views are far from reflecting the views of most Catholic clerics or faithful in America. He has no influence to speak of. There is no reason to believe (as the suggestion was in presenting it) that Fr Arsenych represents anything but a Ukrainian version of Fr Pfleger.

Again, if Fr Arsenych said what the Youtube translator claims he said, his mind clearly cracked on him. It’s one thing in Ukraine to be concerned about Chinese or Muscovite land grabs. Both are happening. But to be concerned about “Negro” land grabs in Ukraine? That’s crazy, and probably no more Ukrainians credit what he says than Americans do of what Father Pfleger says.

Was it the purpose of the Youtube posting to suggest that Ukrainians are all a bunch of racists and deserve to be conquered by Russia? I think if I were a KGB provocateur, I would want to take a video of some nut case and try to persuade people in the west that it somehow was typical of those who oppose Russian conquest. Might even mistranslate at least a little, as they did of Vatican documents in order to make Pope Pius XII look like “Hitler’s Pope”. Well, it has to be acknowledged as well that they outright falsified some Vatican documents.

KGB folks are pretty good at propaganda, but not perfect at it.
 
Tomdstone said:
Here is a speech by a Ukrainian Greek Catholic priest Father Arsenych, calling for assassination and terror in Ukraine:
“…The ground will be burning under their feet, like our torches are burning today!
Our hand must be firm! Glory to the Ukraine!”
The speech was given in 2010, but it was not condemned by the UGCC until 3 years later.
youtube.com/watch?v=C5EXdbzIDEk
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I’ve been off the computer most of the day but let me get this straight. I ask a question about Ukrainian Catholic priests being persecuted by Russian forces in Crimea and your only comment is not disapproval, but a link to a speech by one priest in an entirely different area of Ukraine given in a village in the Carpathian mountains, who has subsequently asked for forgiveness for his sins.
kolomyya.org/se/sites/ep/53854/

The hierarchy of the Ukrainian Catholic Church has condemned this priest, but he is one priest, and if you wish to look at the hierarchy of today’s Russian Orthodox Church (the hierarchy, not the laity or priests) which supports Putin you can find a KGB secret police background behind today’s Patriarch Kiril and speeches given by him when he was the representative of the Russian Orthodox Church to the World Council of Churches back in the 1970s where he praised the Soviet Union and denounced the West. (And this when the Ukrainian Catholic Church was illegal in the Soviet Union and its believers harassed and imprisoned by the KGB). The Russian Orthodox Patriarch never recanted this, nor has he ever clarified what he did for the KGB in Soviet times. Russian Orthodox priests who pointed out Patriarch Kiril’s KGB background like Father Gleb Yakunin were quickly excommunicated from this church. According to the Times of London, today’s Patriarch of the Russian Orthodox Church was codenamed “Mikhailov” by the KGB, and of course Putin was a KGB agent. The Patriarch and Putin see eye to eye on foreign policy.

Former KGB General Oleg Kalugin who denounced the Soviet Union gave an interview in Russian which is on youtube where he went into depth into how he worked with today’s Patriarch of the Russian Orthodox Church as a “comrade” for the KGB back in the 1970s. Kalugin, however, recanted what he did for the KGB.

One shouldn’t use this fact to tarnish the faith and belief of Russian Orthodox priests and laity and their Church as a whole, but it does draw the fact that your attempt to tarnish the Ukrainian Catholic Church by one priest’s speech leads one to view what was and is said and is done by today’s head of the Russian Orthodox Church and its hierarchy. And there are thousands of Ukrainian Catholic priests now that the Soviet Union has fallen apart.

Moreover, the man who headed the KGB at the time when Patriarch Kirill (then a priest) was appointed to represent the Russian Orthodox Church at the World Council of Churches (obviously requiring the KGB’s approval) during Soviet times was none other than Yuri Andropov who perfected the method of sending enemies of the Soviet Kremlin, including Ukrainian Catholics, to Soviet psychiatric asylums for ‘treatment’. Hundreds of thousands of innocent people in the Soviet Union suffered this sad life-destroying fate at the hands of Andropov.

This atheist communist Andropov is venerated by Vladimir Putin who ceremoniously put up a plaque to Andropov in the Lubyanka in 1999; Putin has also created “Andropov scholarships”! in the Russian secret police school because Putin thinks him such a great moral exemplar for today’s Russian youth who may wish to join the Russian secret police.

And Ukrainian Catholics (and Roman Catholics) are supposed to put their faith in Vladimir Putin’s good word who hero-worships KGB butchers?
 
Ridgerunner said:
Aside from the suspicion that the utube video is bogus entirely,…
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Ridgerunner said:
This should be consigned to the rubbish heap of propaganda…The KGB and its affiliates did a lot of stuff like this,…
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If this speech is bogus entirely as you suspect, can you please explain the following statements on the site of the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church:
"Сьогодні, 13 грудня 2013 року, до єпархіального управління Коломийсько-Чернівецької єпархії УГКЦ, на виклик Адміністратора єпархії владики Василія (Івасюка), прибув священик Михайло Арсенич. Причиною стала сумнозвісна промова, яка викликала великий резонанс спочатку в мережі інтернет, а опісля у широкому колі громадськості.
Висловлюємо стурбованість тим фактом, що палку промову о. Арсенича виголошену 2010 року, було підмінено під виступ на Майдані Незалежності у грудні 2013 року. Рівночасно управління Коломийсько-Чернівецької єпархії УГКЦ не знімає відповідальності з священика Михайла Арсенича за промову, котра суперечить місії священика.
Дану подію було обговорено на засіданні Колегії єпархіальних радників Коломийсько-Чернівецької єпархії. У процесі дослідження було винесено декрет Про канонічне попередження від 13. 12. 2013 р., де говориться наступне:
“На інтернет сайті You Tube від 6 грудня 2013 року було висвітлено відео радикально-агресивного виступу отця Михайла Арсенича у Коломиї. Дана промова була виголошена 15 жовтня 2010 року біля пам’ятника С. Бандери і звернена до вояків УПА. Проте, на превеликий жаль, в мережі інтернет даний виступ був охарактеризований як: “Палка промова до пастви” в м. Києві.
У висновку декрету на священика Михайла вирішено: “Наказуємо священику Михайлу Арсеничу ще раз перепросити тих, яким завдав моральної шкоди та подав згіршення, відбути місячне покаяння в монастирі Отців Студитів та утриматися від подібних публічних виступів на майбутнє. Якщо о. Михайло Арсенич повторить щось подібне, тоді ми будемо змушені діяти згідно з ККСЦ, щоб боронити правду і святу Церкву”.
kolomyya.org/se/sites/ep/53854/
 
Tomdstone, what exactly is your point? I posted about persecution of Ukrainian Catholics in Crimea by pro-Russian forces, including physical beatings of a Ukrainian Catholic priest, and you respond with a speech made by one Ukrainian Catholic priest with no connection to Crimea to show what exactly??? What? What point are you trying to make, or what insinuation? You give no background to fetching a youtube clip on this thread, nor do you condemn the persecution of Catholics in Crimea which was the point of my post. What’s your point.

That Ukrainian Catholic priests should be beaten? That there may be an uncontrolled hothead among thousands of priests who needs to be disciplined? What in God’s name is your point other than to attempt to tarnish the entire Church using one priest’s speech.

Tell me something, since you’ve taken upon yourself to criticize the Church, do you speak Ukrainian? What does the “other” stand for in your designation? We’re on a Catholic site, and since you’re going to tarnish the Ukrainian Catholic Church, which “other” are you coming from?
 
KyivAndrew said:
What in God’s name is your point…?
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Sorry. I hold to the following commandment:
" You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain, for the LORD will not hold him guiltless who takes his name in vain."
 
Tomdstone said:
If this speech is bogus entirely as you suspect, can you please explain the following statements on the site of the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church:
"Сьогодні, 13 грудня 2013 року, до єпархіального управління Коломийсько-Чернівецької єпархії УГКЦ, на виклик Адміністратора єпархії владики Василія (Івасюка), прибув священик Михайло Арсенич. Причиною стала сумнозвісна промова, яка викликала великий резонанс спочатку в мережі інтернет, а опісля у широкому колі громадськості.
Висловлюємо стурбованість тим фактом, що палку промову о. Арсенича виголошену 2010 року, було підмінено під виступ на Майдані Незалежності у грудні 2013 року. Рівночасно управління Коломийсько-Чернівецької єпархії УГКЦ не знімає відповідальності з священика Михайла Арсенича за промову, котра суперечить місії священика.
Дану подію було обговорено на засіданні Колегії єпархіальних радників Коломийсько-Чернівецької єпархії. У процесі дослідження було винесено декрет Про канонічне попередження від 13. 12. 2013 р., де говориться наступне:
“На інтернет сайті You Tube від 6 грудня 2013 року було висвітлено відео радикально-агресивного виступу отця Михайла Арсенича у Коломиї. Дана промова була виголошена 15 жовтня 2010 року біля пам’ятника С. Бандери і звернена до вояків УПА. Проте, на превеликий жаль, в мережі інтернет даний виступ був охарактеризований як: “Палка промова до пастви” в м. Києві.
У висновку декрету на священика Михайла вирішено: “Наказуємо священику Михайлу Арсеничу ще раз перепросити тих, яким завдав моральної шкоди та подав згіршення, відбути місячне покаяння в монастирі Отців Студитів та утриматися від подібних публічних виступів на майбутнє. Якщо о. Михайло Арсенич повторить щось подібне, тоді ми будемо змушені діяти згідно з ККСЦ, щоб боронити правду і святу Церкву”.
kolomyya.org/se/sites/ep/53854/
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:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:
 
KyivAndrew said:
Tomdstone, what exactly is your point? I posted about persecution of Ukrainian Catholics in Crimea by pro-Russian forces, including physical beatings of a Ukrainian Catholic priest, and you respond with a speech made by one Ukrainian Catholic priest with no connection to Crimea to show what exactly??? What? What point are you trying to make, or what insinuation? You give no background to fetching a youtube clip on this thread, nor do you condemn the persecution of Catholics in Crimea which was the point of my post. What’s your point.

That Ukrainian Catholic priests should be beaten? That there may be an uncontrolled hothead among thousands of priests who needs to be disciplined? What in God’s name is your point other than to attempt to tarnish the entire Church using one priest’s speech.

Tell me something, since you’ve taken upon yourself to criticize the Church, do you speak Ukrainian? What does the “other” stand for in your designation? We’re on a Catholic site, and since you’re going to tarnish the Ukrainian Catholic Church, which “other” are you coming from?
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I don’t technically speak Ukrainian, but I can read enough of it because of my familiarity with other Slavic languages to decipher that the Church issued a canonical warning and sent this priest to a monastery for prayer and penance after they became aware of the video’s existence. It doesn’t appear that they were aware of the video until Dec. 6. Yes?

At any rate, all this proves is that there’s one crazy priest out there whose bishop has told him to stop being crazy and has sent him to a monastery for private reflection. This is not unlike the actions of certain bishops in the USA who have dealt with the occasional crazy priest preaching things that are absolutely not Church teaching. So there’s one crazy priest in Ukraine. That certainly does NOT mean that all priests espouse the same ideas as Fr. Arsenych, and it certainly does NOT mean that any priest deserves to be arrested or beaten.
 
Pro-Russian protests in eastern Ukraine’s Donetsk region diminish:

Highlights from the article include
  • the new regional governor (in office for just one month) and his brother have used their own money to dig a massive trench along the region’s entire 90-mile border with Russia
  • the governor has been giving many speeches and interviews calling for unity and an end to tensions
  • the situation in Donetsk is much calmer than a few weeks ago
  • only 10% of Donetsk residents polled now wish to join Russia, down from 33% prior to the annexation of Crimea
washingtonpost.com/world/pro-russian-protests-in-eastern-ukraines-donetsk-region-diminish/2014/04/03/f1bd1fe0-db2e-4e23-9ceb-cc2f645ae7c5_story.html?tid=hpModule_04941f10-8a79-11e2-98d9-3012c1cd8d1e&hpid=z16
 
Arsen Avakov, Ukraine’s interim interior minister, claimed his predecessor Vitali Zakharchenko, who is currently on the run, was directly involved in giving orders to shoot at protesters, along with the SBU security services.

Valentyn Nalivaichenko, the new head of the SBU, added that a number of officers from Russia’s FSB had been consulting with the SBU in Kiev in December and January, and that Russian citizens were present at SBU headquarters. He also claimed that explosives and weapons were delivered to Ukraine from Russia during the protests.

More than 100 people were killed during February’s violence. In an interview on Wednesday, the ousted president, Viktor Yanukovych, denied any involvement in ordering the sniper attacks. Yanukovych fled Kiev shortly after the shootings and eventually left Ukraine for Russia, where he now lives.

theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/03/ukraine-detains-12-police-shooting-protesters-yanukovych-riot-kiev
 
forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2014/02/27/washingtons-man-yatsenyuk-setting-ukraine-up-for-ruin/

**Washington’s Man Yatsenyuk Setting Ukraine Up For Ruin
**
*Ukraine’s interim prime minister, Arseniy “Yats” Yatsenyuk, may prove to be arsenic to the beleaguered nation.

“Recall the phone exchange between the Ukraine ambassador and Victoria Nuland (Assistant Secretary of State for European Affairs) that got leaked out, where she basically said ‘we want Yats in there.’ They like him because he’s pro Western,” says Vladimir Signorelli, president of boutique investment research firm Bretton Woods Research LLC in New Jersey. “Yatsenyuk is the the kind of technocrat you want if you want austerity, with the veneer of professionalism,” Signorelli said. “He’s the type of guy who can hobnob with the European elite. A Mario Monti type: unelected and willing to do the IMFs bidding,” he said.

Over the past several weeks, Ukraine has been battling political infighting between pro-Russian Ukrainians and pro-Europeans. The fight stepped into high gear in the fall when Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych decided to tilt towards Moscow instead of Brussels in a trade deal.

But Yats had friends in high places and while he does not have strong support of the electorate, and would have no chance of winning an election, he is pro-IMF austerity and apparently the bulk of parliament is as well.

“Yatsenyuk was saying that what the Greeks did to themselves we are going to do ourselves,” said Signorelli. “He wants to follow the Greek economic model. Who the hell wants to follow that?”

Also today, Yatsenyuk promised to implement “very unpopular measures” to stabilize the country’s finances. The government said it needs $35 billion to support the country over the next two years. His language in a news report broadcast by Bloomberg today indicates he is heading toward a potentially destabilizing austerity campaign:
 
pepipop said:
forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2014/02/27/washingtons-man-yatsenyuk-setting-ukraine-up-for-ruin/

**Washington’s Man Yatsenyuk Setting Ukraine Up For Ruin
**
*Ukraine’s interim prime minister, Arseniy “Yats” Yatsenyuk, may prove to be arsenic to the beleaguered nation.

“Recall the phone exchange between the Ukraine ambassador and Victoria Nuland (Assistant Secretary of State for European Affairs) that got leaked out, where she basically said ‘we want Yats in there.’ They like him because he’s pro Western,” says Vladimir Signorelli, president of boutique investment research firm Bretton Woods Research LLC in New Jersey. “Yatsenyuk is the the kind of technocrat you want if you want austerity, with the veneer of professionalism,” Signorelli said. “He’s the type of guy who can hobnob with the European elite. A Mario Monti type: unelected and willing to do the IMFs bidding,” he said.

Over the past several weeks, Ukraine has been battling political infighting between pro-Russian Ukrainians and pro-Europeans. The fight stepped into high gear in the fall when Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych decided to tilt towards Moscow instead of Brussels in a trade deal.

But Yats had friends in high places and while he does not have strong support of the electorate, and would have no chance of winning an election, he is pro-IMF austerity and apparently the bulk of parliament is as well.

“Yatsenyuk was saying that what the Greeks did to themselves we are going to do ourselves,” said Signorelli. “He wants to follow the Greek economic model. Who the hell wants to follow that?”

Also today, Yatsenyuk promised to implement “very unpopular measures” to stabilize the country’s finances. The government said it needs $35 billion to support the country over the next two years. His language in a news report broadcast by Bloomberg today indicates he is heading toward a potentially destabilizing austerity campaign:
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Even if austerity (a varying formulation) is what Yatsenyuk wants, one has to understand that “interim” means “interim”. While he was appointed by the parliament, he has no chance of being elected in the future elections.

From the article: “…he does not have strong support of the electorate, and would have no chance of winning an election…”

Regardless, “austerity” as the term is used in the U.S. does not mean the same thing that it usually does in European usage. And “austerity” for Greece does not mean the same thing as for Germany. One would have to know exactly what this fellow Yatsenyuk meant by it in order to know much about it. In any event, it appears Ukraine is going to need a lot of western help in order to maintain its independence (in addition to a Russian in imperialism).
 
gilliam said:
Russia recalls ambassador to NATO amid Ukraine tensions

Russia says troops to pull back from Ukraine border (but not right away) :cool:
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There might be some Russian motivation to go slow in his “drang nach westen” for awhile. Western European nations probably are at least looking at developing their own considerable gas resources. Surely Putin has enough spies in western Europe to know who’s talking to whom about it. Since the European states have not bothered for years to any real degree, it will take quite awhile to develop them. But if they proceed and if Putin is unwilling to advance to the Atlantic (which I doubt his ability to do, and willingness to attempt) he might be considering the possibility that he is on the cusp of seriously fouling his own economic nest.

One might guess, without being too far wrong, that Yanukovych’s “repentence” is intended by Putin to make Europeans think he might just reverse his conquest of Crimea under some circumstance or other. It would undoubtedly be feigned if so, but he might have instructed Yanuk to say what he did for that reason.
 
Putin’s Drive To Destroy Ukraine: Accessory to murder?

Russia’s Defense Ministry and Federal Security Service took part in the conspiracy to kill more than 100 EuroMaidan demonstrators, Ukraine’s top security official, Valentyn Nalyvaichenko, alleged on April 3.

Ukrainian’s fugitive ex-president, Viktor Yanukovych, ordered and orchestrated the killings, along with the former heads of the Security Service of Ukraine, known as the SBU, and the interior minister, who are also fugitives from mass murder charges, according to Nalyvaichenko.

Nalyvaichenko, who is current head of the SBU, said that two separate Russian groups – involving 30 special agents in all – conspired to plan and carry out an “anti-terrorist” operation that led to the murders, most of which took place in the days immediately preceding Yanukovych’s ouster from power on Feb. 21.

Russia’s Defense Ministry, along with its Federal Security Service – the KGB successor known by the FSB acronym – also supplied Ukraine’s law enforcement with more than five tons of various grenades and explosives that were used against peaceful activists.

Russia’s FSB refused to comment by phone and didn’t respond to an e-mailed inquiry before the Kyiv Post went to print. Russia’s Defense Ministry wasn’t available for comment.

Oleh Makhnitsky, the general prosecutor, said 12 officers of the disbanded Berkut riot police unit have been arrested on suspicion of mass murder. Three of them were part of a special unit called Black Company, which had been issued automatic weapons and sniper rifles. Its commander, Major Dmytro Sadovnyk, is in custody. Avakov attributed 17 deaths to Black Company.

Two groups of 24 and six [Russian] FSB agents lived in an elite Kyiv suburb, Koncha Zaspa, between Dec. 19-23 and Jan. 26-29. Nalyvaichenko says the SBU paid for their stay, provided them with security and made joint plans for the EuroMaidan crackdown of Feb. 18-20.

Moreover, 26 FSB agents were present at an SBU shooting range on Dec. 26, he alleges.
“We want to ask the Russian authorities what their names and ranks are and the exact purpose of their stay,” said Nalyvaichenko.

In addition, on Jan. 21 and Jan. 24, two airplanes from Russia delivered 5 tons of grenades and explosives, including ones that shoot from grenade launchers. Nalyvaichenko said an inquiry has been sent to Russia’s Defense Ministry.

It was the SBU’s anti-terrorist Alpha Group, according to Nalyvaichenko, who stormed the House of Trade Unions on Feb. 18, which housed the revolution’s headquarters. It included a makeshift hospital, a kitchen, press center and sleeping rooms for the protesters. Seven Alpha Group snipers were also stationed near the Maidan on Feb. 18.

kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/putins-drive-to-destroy-ukraine-accessory-to-murder-342033.html

Please note the old heads of Ukraine’s SBU and Interior Ministry under Yanukovych have been dismissed and are on the run and hiding in Moscow, the former body now under a professional, and a patriot, Nalyvaychenko.

And, how coincidental, AFTER this Ukrainian report appears, the Russia’s Federal Security Service (FSB) says it has detained 25 Ukrainians, accusing them of planning terrorist attacks in Russia at about the time of last month’s Crimean referendum. A farcical story: it even claims Ukraine’s new head of the SBU ordered this - unbelievable. The NTV Russian report didn’t even contain any pictures of bombs or what have you but I’m sure if they have to, Russia’s FSB, proud successor to the KGB, will make up evidence.

Please understand, Ukraine releases a report detailing the killings on the Maidan and those responsible, and lo and behold, a Russian disinformation campaign begins about some unbelievable fictitious plot planned by Ukrainian Security Service chief Valentyn Nalyvaychenko. Please understand how ridiculous this sounds; Nalyvaychenko is an honest and decent man and did not belong to the corrupt secret service headed by Yanukovych. He’s trying to rebuild Ukraine and law and order now, a professional, a democrat, and a Secret Police (SBU) man who wished all secret police archives of Soviet crimes to be revealed (which Putin is against). As Ukraine attempts to deescalate, this attempt by Russia to point some fantastical plot involving bombs under Nalyvaychenko’s direction is KGB/FSB misinformation and it just came out now, after Ukraine is releasing its report on the killings of civilians in Ukraine, in which Russia’s role is under examination. It’s not a coincidence, Russia’s turn to some unbelievable terror plot to be pinned on Ukraine’s new government.

Let Putin respond as to what his FSB and GRU agents were doing in Ukraine during the Maidan, and what exactly are the hundreds of ununiformed Russian FSB and GRU agents doing in Eastern and Southern Ukraine right now.
kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/james-sherr-it-is-time-we-stopped-praising-ukraine-for-exercising-restraint-340991.html
 
KyivAndrew said:
Putin’s Drive To Destroy Ukraine: Accessory to murder?

Russia’s Defense Ministry and Federal Security Service took part in the conspiracy to kill more than 100 EuroMaidan demonstrators, Ukraine’s top security official, Valentyn Nalyvaichenko, alleged on April 3.

Ukrainian’s fugitive ex-president, Viktor Yanukovych, ordered and orchestrated the killings, along with the former heads of the Security Service of Ukraine, known as the SBU, and the interior minister, who are also fugitives from mass murder charges, according to Nalyvaichenko.

Nalyvaichenko, who is current head of the SBU, said that two separate Russian groups – involving 30 special agents in all – conspired to plan and carry out an “anti-terrorist” operation that led to the murders, most of which took place in the days immediately preceding Yanukovych’s ouster from power on Feb. 21.

Russia’s Defense Ministry, along with its Federal Security Service – the KGB successor known by the FSB acronym – also supplied Ukraine’s law enforcement with more than five tons of various grenades and explosives that were used against peaceful activists.

Russia’s FSB refused to comment by phone and didn’t respond to an e-mailed inquiry before the Kyiv Post went to print. Russia’s Defense Ministry wasn’t available for comment.

Oleh Makhnitsky, the general prosecutor, said 12 officers of the disbanded Berkut riot police unit have been arrested on suspicion of mass murder. Three of them were part of a special unit called Black Company, which had been issued automatic weapons and sniper rifles. Its commander, Major Dmytro Sadovnyk, is in custody. Avakov attributed 17 deaths to Black Company.

Two groups of 24 and six [Russian] FSB agents lived in an elite Kyiv suburb, Koncha Zaspa, between Dec. 19-23 and Jan. 26-29. Nalyvaichenko says the SBU paid for their stay, provided them with security and made joint plans for the EuroMaidan crackdown of Feb. 18-20.

Moreover, 26 FSB agents were present at an SBU shooting range on Dec. 26, he alleges.
“We want to ask the Russian authorities what their names and ranks are and the exact purpose of their stay,” said Nalyvaichenko.

In addition, on Jan. 21 and Jan. 24, two airplanes from Russia delivered 5 tons of grenades and explosives, including ones that shoot from grenade launchers. Nalyvaichenko said an inquiry has been sent to Russia’s Defense Ministry.

It was the SBU’s anti-terrorist Alpha Group, according to Nalyvaichenko, who stormed the House of Trade Unions on Feb. 18, which housed the revolution’s headquarters. It included a makeshift hospital, a kitchen, press center and sleeping rooms for the protesters. Seven Alpha Group snipers were also stationed near the Maidan on Feb. 18.

kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/putins-drive-to-destroy-ukraine-accessory-to-murder-342033.html

Please note the old heads of Ukraine’s SBU and Interior Ministry under Yanukovych have been dismissed and are on the run and hiding in Moscow, the former body now under a professional, and a patriot, Nalyvaychenko.

And, how coincidental, AFTER this Ukrainian report appears, the Russia’s Federal Security Service (FSB) says it has detained 25 Ukrainians, accusing them of planning terrorist attacks in Russia at about the time of last month’s Crimean referendum. A farcical story: it even claims Ukraine’s new head of the SBU ordered this - unbelievable. The NTV Russian report didn’t even contain any pictures of bombs or what have you but I’m sure if they have to, Russia’s FSB, proud successor to the KGB, will make up evidence.

Please understand, Ukraine releases a report detailing the killings on the Maidan and those responsible, and lo and behold, a Russian disinformation campaign begins about some unbelievable fictitious plot planned by Ukrainian Security Service chief Valentyn Nalyvaychenko. Please understand how ridiculous this sounds; Nalyvaychenko is an honest and decent man and did not belong to the corrupt secret service headed by Yanukovych. He’s trying to rebuild Ukraine and law and order now, a professional, a democrat, and a Secret Police (SBU) man who wished all secret police archives of Soviet crimes to be revealed (which Putin is against). As Ukraine attempts to deescalate, this attempt by Russia to point some fantastical plot involving bombs under Nalyvaychenko’s direction is KGB/FSB misinformation and it just came out now, after Ukraine is releasing its report on the killings of civilians in Ukraine, in which Russia’s role is under examination. It’s not a coincidence, Russia’s turn to some unbelievable terror plot to be pinned on Ukraine’s new government.

Let Putin respond as to what his FSB and GRU agents were doing in Ukraine during the Maidan, and what exactly are the hundreds of ununiformed Russian FSB and GRU agents doing in Eastern and Southern Ukraine right now.
kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/james-sherr-it-is-time-we-stopped-praising-ukraine-for-exercising-restraint-340991.html
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I realise this is close to the heart, for you, KAndrew, however a group allegedly associated with the killings cannot expect the results, of their single-handed investigation, to be accepted. It had already been discussed that Russia, USA and/or EU or other neutral parties would jointly carry out the investigation. Hence a full ‘open’ investigation needs to be carried out…

Several Ukrainian candidates, in the up and coming election, have stated they do not accept the ‘current government’s’ findings.
 
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