Ukraine (cont.)

[AnastasiaRomano]

Can you please give us concrete examples of where the news broadcast by RT has been shown to be false.

Well, there were several discussions about problematic media coverage in the prior thread that was recently closed due to size. Among them: Russian media portraying the same injured man as three different people, and Russian media claiming a photo showed long lines of refugees trying to cross into Russia at a particular border crossing – when in fact live webcam footage showed very scarce traffic at the border crossing in the story and the photo was of a border station on Ukraine’s border with Poland and had been taken some time earlier.

 

[AnastasiaRomano]

Meanwhile, in Crimea there were large protests by Tatars over Russia’s decision to deport Mustafa Dzhemilev, a prominent Tatar leader who fought for years for Tatars’ right to return to their homeland:

themoscowtimes.com/news/article/russia-to-prosecute-crimean-tatar-protesters-over-unrest/499385.html

Thousands of Crimean Tatars on Saturday responded to news that their spiritual leader had been banned from the peninsula by blocking several highways in a tense standoff with riot police — the first sign that the Muslim ethnic group’s discontent with Russian authorities may lead to turmoil.

On Saturday, Crimean authorities promised to dish out criminal charges to the group, which numbered about five thousand, according to the BBC Russian service.

 

[KyivAndrew]

For all those who believe anything that RT promulgates, I happen to have a bridge going from Manhattan to Brooklyn for sale.

Yes, there is a reason RT is discouraged as a news-source on CAF. It will never criticize Putin, but will criticize the West to the hilt, and it has been caught in lies on its reporting on Ukraine, which some of the posters went over earlier on this thread (on a previous Ukraine thread): i.e. RT using footage of Ukrainians gathering at the border with Poland, and reporting this was Ukrainians running to Russia.

Even before the events of Odesa this weekend, RT’s Editor-in-Chief, Margarita Simonyan, tweeted some two weeks ago: “UKRAINE: R.I.P..”
mediaite.com/online/rt-editor-in-chief-ukraine-r-i-p/

This was last month April 24 during the time when pro-Ukrainian protestors in places like Kharkiv and Donetsk who merely wished to march with the Ukrainian flag and sing the country’s national hymn could be guaranteed to have their heads crushed, literally, by thugs with baseball bats.

Simonyan is the **Editor-in-Chief **of RT and responsible then for RT’s coverage of Ukraine. Ukrainians barely survived a genocidal famine at the hands of the Kremlin in 1932-33 when some 5 million innocents died. As a nation, it should have been wiped off the face of the map under communist oppression and russification. Its national churches and faithful, including the Ukrainian Catholic, should have long ago perished in the Gulag at the Kremlin’s wish. But no, somehow God helped it survive.

And for the Editor-in-Chief of RT to come out with such a repulsive tweet about Ukraine, with genocidal connotations, and then somehow claim RT is objective in coverage of Ukraine is absolutely disgusting. In many other countries a journalist would be fired for this. If the Editor-in-Chief of RT thinks this way about Ukraine as a nation, I don’t think any RT story on Ukraine should be linked to on CAF.

 

[Tomdstone]

Well, there were several discussions about problematic media coverage in the prior thread that was recently closed due to size. Among them: Russian media portraying the same injured man as three different people, and Russian media claiming a photo showed long lines of refugees trying to cross into Russia at a particular border crossing – when in fact live webcam footage showed very scarce traffic at the border crossing in the story and the photo was of a border station on Ukraine’s border with Poland and had been taken some time earlier.

OK. thanks for that. I think we all would appreciate it if you or anyone here would point out each piece of false information, or information thought to be false, broadcast by RT or by the western media. Obviously, it makes no sense to base your argument on false information, and we need to know each and every case - if possible. However, the videos of the fire in Odessa seem to be authentic, and much of what RT is reporting has not been contradicted.

 

[Tomdstone]

Yes, there is a reason RT is discouraged as a news-source on CAF. It will never criticize Putin,…

This is false. Abby Martin, an RT commentator, criticized Putin’s policy with respect to Crimea. And she is still on board RT with her "Breaking the Set " feature.

 

[KyivAndrew]

This is false. Abby Martin, an RT commentator, criticized Putin’s policy with respect to Crimea. And she is still on board RT with her "Breaking the Set " feature.

Thanks, is she the only one?

 

[Tomdstone]

Thanks, is she the only one?

I don’t watch RT too much, except for some news items, but I suspect that Larry King is fairly independent in his views.

 

[Athanasiy]

That’s right. During the Maidan protests Russia snuck in tens of thousands of KGB agents to masquerade as Ukrainians and suddenly overnight places like Odessa, Crimea and the Eastern Ukrainian regions became anti-EU integration and anti-NATO.

Now the real Ukrainians have awoken to this diabolical Russian/USSR subterfuge and are now rightly burning these people alive and unleashing their army against them - and exposing no shortage of secret KGB agents even in the ranks of their armed forces in the process. These fake Ukrainians too shall be bombed and burned alive for the crime of terrorism!

“Glory to Ukraine!”

I am not surpised by the Russian media , but what surprise me most that on the West there are still people who can be so misinformed about the events in Ukraine.
Even in Africa it was hard to find such a corrupt president as Yanukovych.
Provocateurs and collaborators are often well paid provocateurs, who are making some times disorders in some East Ukrainian cities.
Absolute majority of Ukrainians are anti-Yanukovich
You can not be sane and to be pro-Yanukovych
I repeat again;
‘‘Interim head of Ukraine is respected Baptist Pastor.
Even his enemies for all last biography could not say a bad word about him.
If you want to hear my personal opinion - I personally would like to vote for a man like this pastor remained head of my country, but Ukraine is facing elections.
May God bless the long-suffering people of Ukraine to build the future on the principles of freedom, justice and rights.’’
The more democratic countries will be in Europe the safer it will be for Europe. If someone is trying to grow a monster, then it means that history teaches nothing.

 

[AnastasiaRomano]

So much for that promised “rehabilitation” of the Crimean Tatars, I guess… It didn’t last long now that 5,000 Tatars (peacefully) protested the deportation of one of their leaders.

sptimes.ru/story/39779

Crimea’s prosecutor has threatened to outlaw Crimean Tatars’ main self-governing body for “extremist” activities, reading out a warning to their leader in Russian despite his repeated appeals for a translation into the official language of their autonomy.

The Sunday admonition by prosecutor Natalya Poklonskaya to Mejlis leader Refat Chubarov was seen by some as an ominous sign for the Crimean Tatars, whose former head Mustafa Dzhemilev was banned from entering the Black Sea peninsula the previous day.

 

[pepipop]

I won’t ignore the uncharitable, irrational anti-Russian sentiment that is ubiquitous on this thread.

 

[Seamus_L]

I love RT, there live feeds are amazing and they pretty much demolished the claims that the Euromaidan in Kiev was made up of peaceful protesters who were brutally attacked by vicious riot police.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Ordinary Ukrainians were not part of Maidan.

The muscle behind Maidan came from fascist, neo-Nazi, organizations like Right Sector with military experience and who had the full backing of Victorian Nuland, John McCain and Catherine Ashton. We also know that the snipers who fired on the Maidan were shooting from buildings controlled by the Maidan and that they killed their own members in a cynical attempt to blame it on Yanukovcych and the Berkut.

If “ordinariy Ukrainians” were not part of the Maidan, there certainly were a lot of extraordinary Ukrainians…millions. It’s just silly to pretend that they were som kind of U.S. plotters or Right wing extremists. The U.S. couldn’t assemble a million protesters in the US, let alone in Ukraine. After all, in the Kiev region at least, the overwhelming majority of people opposed Yanukovych to begin with. Then they saw his really astonishing corruption, and his attempt to bring Ukraine within the Russian orbit was plain to see.

these peoples’ parents and grandparents lived through the Soviet genocide. Is there some persuasive reason to believe they have all forgotten that and would like to undergo Russian dominion again?

And the Berkut was an oppressive, neo-fascist, semi-criminal organization itself. the Prior president of Ukraine tried to rein them in . Yanukovych tried to expand it still further.

The burning of the people in that government building was a tragedy. But it is obvious several things were at play. First, they took over a Ukrainian government building violently, and for the sake of a foreign government. Second, they had molotov cocktails. Third, those outside who wanted to return the building to the government did as well. Somehow a fire started and people died. Nobody knows who did it, or even that it was done deliberately.

And it is to the credit of John McCain and others who supported Ukrainians who wanted to ensure self-determination instead of wanting to live as subjects of a KGB colonel. If they shouldn’t be supportive of people like that, then who?

 

[Ridgerunner]

So much for that promised “rehabilitation” of the Crimean Tatars, I guess… It didn’t last long now that 5,000 Tatars (peacefully) protested the deportation of one of their leaders.

sptimes.ru/story/39779

“Ethnic cleansing” is not new to today’s Russia. Ask the Chechens.

 

[Ridgerunner]

If the violence continues from the criminal regime in Kiev, Putin will have no choice but to invade and restore law and order and restore the legitimate ruler of Ukraine - Yanukovych - to his seat of power. Those that will criticize the coming invasion as breach of sovereign territory need to be reminded that there is not currently a legitimate government in Kiev and the one that the West has installed there is currently butchering ethnic Russian Ukrainians. Russia has correctly noted that the West is responsible for the bloodshed in Ukraine, so the chances of this becoming a major war between the West and Russia.

No, the invasion of Ukraine by Russia is “Plan 3”, and “Plan 2” isn’t over with yet. Plain 1 was subversion by Yanukovych and his Berkut. Plan 2 was and is subversion and takover by Moscow’s agents in the Donets basin and eslewhere in Eastern Ukraine. Straight up invasion is “Plan 3”.

And Putin’s invasion won’t start WWIII. Obama is feckless, and Putin will stop at Poland’s border, if not before.

And the West didn’t install the current government in Kiev. The current president was appointed by the Ukrainian parliament, including by some of Yanukovych’s own party. What did you expect the parliament to do when Yauko ran to Putin…nothing?..just not have an executive at all? Or did you expect them to go beg Putin to return him so he could rule them again?

Putin bears total responsibility for the people burned in Ukraine. Had his agents not taken over a government building violently and prepared to defend their seizure with molotov cocktails, it never would have happened.

Putin and his cadres are totally responsible for every death happening there, and will be responsible for the deaths, thefts and other atrocities his agents (perhaps later his admitted soldiers) commit in taking over whatever part of Ukraine he plans to conquer.

 

[Seamus_L]

Kyiv Post admits it was a group of Orthodox Christians carrying icons and religious banners, who started the march on police headquarters in Odessa to free Russian separatists kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/odessa-mob-rule-who-gave-police-order-to-release-detainees-and-why-346227.html. Apparently not all the good Christians are on the side of the Euromaidan .

 

[pepipop]

Can you please give us concrete examples of where the news broadcast by RT has been shown to be false.

There is no evidence, as RT news is for the most part factual backed up by live video/telephone conversations or other media proof. The rest of the MSM trundle along a few days later with the same news as RT (mind you, only if it’s in their country’s best interests) - after they’ve blamed Russia for whatever happened, up until that point.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Kyiv Post admits it was a group of Orthodox Christians carrying icons and religious banners, who started the march on police headquarters in Odessa to free Russian separatists kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/odessa-mob-rule-who-gave-police-order-to-release-detainees-and-why-346227.html. Apparently not all the good Christians are on the side of the Euromaidan .

Apparently, too, these good Christians did nothing to deter those accompanying them from throwing stones and breaking windows to free the Russian detainees.

 

[JimG]

No, the invasion of Ukraine by Russia is “Plan 3”, and “Plan 2” isn’t over with yet. Plain 1 was subversion by Yanukovych and his Berkut. Plan 2 was and is subversion and takover by Moscow’s agents in the Donets basin and eslewhere in Eastern Ukraine. Straight up invasion is “Plan 3”.

And Putin’s invasion won’t start WWIII. Obama is feckless, and Putin will stop at Poland’s border, if not before.

And the West didn’t install the current government in Kiev. The current president was appointed by the Ukrainian parliament, including by some of Yanukovych’s own party. What did you expect the parliament to do when Yauko ran to Putin…nothing?..just not have an executive at all? Or did you expect them to go beg Putin to return him so he could rule them again?

Putin bears total responsibility for the people burned in Ukraine. Had his agents not taken over a government building violently and prepared to defend their seizure with molotov cocktails, it never would have happened.

Putin and his cadres are totally responsible for every death happening there, and will be responsible for the deaths, thefts and other atrocities his agents (perhaps later his admitted soldiers) commit in taking over whatever part of Ukraine he plans to conquer.

That sounds like an accurate summary. I can’t figure why Russia is so supportive of a former KGB agent. Do they miss the USSR?

 

[KyivAndrew]

I can’t figure why Russia is so supportive of a former KGB agent. Do they miss the USSR?

Or why some in the West are so supportive of the unrepentant KGB agent Putin who believes the collapse of the Soviet Empire, that great prison of nations and peoples, was the Greatest geopolitical Tragedy of the last century; an unrepentant KGB agent who venerates the late Leader of the Soviet Union and KGB Yuri Andropov who pioneered the work of sending hundreds of thousands of thousands of innocent people (including Catholics) into Soviet psychiatric institutions to force psychotropic drugs down their throat to “cure them” of opposition to the Kremlin; an unrepentant KGB agent who compares Lenin’s body to the relics of Christian saints.

As I said before, anybody who wants to defend Putin has to defend Putin’s own personal hero: the so-called butcher of Budapest Yuri Andropov, a proud atheist communist with no morals.

 

[KyivAndrew]

If “ordinariy Ukrainians” were not part of the Maidan, there certainly were a lot of extraordinary Ukrainians…millions. It’s just silly to pretend that they were som kind of U.S. plotters or Right wing extremists. The U.S. couldn’t assemble a million protesters in the US, let alone in Ukraine. After all, in the Kiev region at least, the overwhelming majority of people opposed Yanukovych to begin with. Then they saw his really astonishing corruption, and his attempt to bring Ukraine within the Russian orbit was plain to see.

these peoples’ parents and grandparents lived through the Soviet genocide. Is there some persuasive reason to believe they have all forgotten that and would like to undergo Russian dominion again?

And the Berkut was an oppressive, neo-fascist, semi-criminal organization itself. the Prior president of Ukraine tried to rein them in . Yanukovych tried to expand it still further.

And it is to the credit of John McCain and others who supported Ukrainians who wanted to ensure self-determination instead of wanting to live as subjects of a KGB colonel. If they shouldn’t be supportive of people like that, then who?