Ukraine

[KyivAndrew]

To all on this thread, please don’t bother responding to my posts. I will no longer be posting on this thread or here.

God Bless,

 

[GraceSofia]

I have just been checking in and out of live coverage on espreso TV (youtube) of Independence Square where through the night it seems every twenty minutes priests and nuns lead the crowd from loudspeakers through a series of “Our Fathers”, “Hail Marys”, and prayers to Michael the Archangel for protection as the corrupt President Yanukovych sends in riot troops. Right now a priest and nun are going through the Rosary over the microphone on Kyiv’s central independence square where the protesters are located as Yanukovych’s Berkut attacks.

Thanks for the info about espreso. For those interested, here is the link youtube.com/watch?v=UXiTe8ndS90 When I looked, there were people on a state, a man was speaking, and I was impressed that they had a statue of the Blessed Virgin Mary on the platform.

If you think the US is behind these protests, then you are sorely misinformed about Ukraine and Ukrainians. The Ukrainian pro-democracy opposition has been trying to have the US and Europeans put sanctions against the criminal oligarchs who control 85% of Ukraine’s economy through graft and corruption (one of the biggest oligarchs being Yanukovych himself, he being a convicted rapist and assaulter). Nothing has been done but talk. Merkel has not lifted a finger.

Right now Yanukovych is fighting to keep his wealth and power and is willing to use violence. He doesn’t trust the Ukrainian Army so he sends in riot police under duress and paid-for-hire thugs. I find it hard to fathom that some Americans on CAF think every pro-democracy movement on earth must be being run by the CIA, or what have you.

I think a lot of people, not just Americans, overestimate the ability of the CIA to control events.

Perhaps not. But it is certainly the lead country right now trying to architect her fate.

I would guess that it is Russia.

To all on this thread, please don’t bother responding to my posts. I will no longer be posting on this thread or here.

God Bless,

I hope that after a short break you will return. I, and I’m sure many others who are reading but not commenting, have appreciated your knowledgeable posts.

 

[AnastasiaRomano]

Desperate measures?

I guess it depends on the circumstances before I could form a judgment.

I know that from my own experience that “independent news sources” are all too often in practice just “foreign owned and agenda driven,” often deeply subversive and corruptive, only giving themselves away when they all too blatantly offend the natural sentiments and traditions of a population in all too obvious ignorance or with a repugnant arrogance.

5 Kanal is owned by Petro Poroshenko, a billionaire (he owns the Roshen chocolate company, among other things) and an independent member of the Ukrainian parliament.

I would agree with you that the situation in Ukraine has become very dangerous. Yanukovych blames the protesters for everything, failing to even acknowledge any responsibility on his part or the government’s part. For example, the situation flared up again yesterday because the parliament was instructed not to consider a bill that would return the Ukrainian constitution to its 2004 form (that constitution restricted the president’s power more) – just a day after protesters had withdrawn from several occupied government buildings and begun dismantling some of the barricades in good faith. Not really a good move strategically on his part…

My heart breaks for Ukraine, and I pray for peace. I worry a lot that things have crossed a point of no return for a peaceful solution, but I know that nothing is impossible for God. The current count stands at 26 killed and more than 1,000 injured… kyivpost.com/content/kyiv/renewed-violence-breaks-out-today-near-ukraines-parliament-at-least-one-injured-336993.html

(and yes, KyivAndrew, please come back. I always appreciate your posts.)

 

[Seamus_L]

Yanukovych Declares Day of Mourning as EU Prepares to Discuss Sanctions themoscowtimes.com/news/article/yanukovych-declares-day-of-mourning-as-eu-prepares-to-discuss-sanctions/494912.html

 

[BillyT926]

Perhaps not. But it is certainly the lead country right now trying to architect her fate.

I think this might be yet another typically crass, crude and rude display of power and arrogance by the new Western political paradigm clique. That’s their trademark: brazen shamelessness and effrontery. They are also almost ridiculously sloppy and incompetent. A perverse application of a kind of “shock and awe,” banking a great deal on fear. The willingness to do it almost seems to be the sole, or at least foremost endearing, criteria for getting in consideration and favour with these people.

Right now the US-UK-Canada and France -and it looks like Belgium too- seem to be completely run by these folks and they are using -or rather despoiling- the international credibility of these countries on a massive, almost barn-fire scale, and a lot of countries are noticing this alarming, radical change and shift; not to mention increasingly their own populations are sensing something totally irrational about their policies and decisions, which gives them away as effectively foreign, at least in mind or agenda.

There are red flags going up almost everywhere and I have never seen political messages being sent so openly, almost to the point of direct appeal to foreign populations to do something about their governments. Not too many countries would become so sick of the traditional leaders of the Western world as to openly refuse aid or assistance even while it is desperately needed and virtually necessary for social (and political) stability, but countries are doing it even to the United States. Not too often would major international players deliberately establish transparently obvious propaganda-news outlets to directly access and appeal to the populations of other countries in order to contradict a reigning narrative, as such interference is usually considered illicit meddling in others countries’ affairs or internal political business, but more countries (by no means rich) are doing just that. Traditionally this would have met with open condemnations, but it is interesting that they are not being openly condemned, as if it is feared that this would only draw attention and raise alarms.

I think that new Netflix show, which I have never seen, is at least quite aptly named for the times we live in: House of Cards.

Now finally, and returning more to point, I think what’s going on in the Ukraine is at least partly a consequence of Obama’s and the State Departments absolute -almost obsessive and psychotic- hatred of Putin and desire to destroy him. Putin recently personally called John Kerry a bold faced liar in front of a gathering of world representatives. That never happened even during the Cold War. That frankly never happens. Anyone with ears to hear knows there is something seriously wrong and a very deep or core issue is at stake at whatever the heck the real issue is. But a common theme emerging is a lot of countries are reacting to what they loosely identify as brazen effrontery on the part of certain NATO nations’ leadership. Russia is just the most obvious and one of the few countries that can access and interfere -minimally- with internal affairs in those countries. Kenya or Uganda couldn’t do squat. Russia sometimes can pull muscle and make her thoughts and opinions known. She can sometimes contradict political narratives; and indeed has done so.

If you’re defending Putin here, wow.
Russia has had her tentacles all over the east since the days of Pan-Slavism, and before. The Ukrainian people want independence. They want to go their own way, not to be dominated by Russia. They want to be a part of the western orbit. And Russia will not let that stand.

 

[tomarin]

If you’re defending Putin here, wow.
Russia has had her tentacles all over the east since the days of Pan-Slavism, and before. The Ukrainian people want independence. They want to go their own way, not to be dominated by Russia. They want to be a part of the western orbit. And Russia will not let that stand.

Apparently the eastern part of Ukraine wants to be aligned with Russia and Putin, the western half wants to follow Europe’s lead and be a part of the EU. However from what I hear Ukraine’s President’s support is dwindling. My hope and prayer is that he steps down and the bloodshed ends.

 

[Hobbes42]

I think a lot of people, not just Americans, overestimate the ability of the CIA to control events…

Please explain that to the Iranians?

 

[Seamus_L]

I remember when the British newspaper The Guardian did an expose on American organizations who were heavily involved in the 2004 Orange Revolution. Imagine if a pro-government member of the Ukrainian parliament came to America and took part in protests calling upon President Obama to resign ?

 

[kelvinf]

It is time for the US to stop meddling in Ukraine.

The EU too. Their one-sidedness is disgusting. I have watched many Western channels and only Euronews has broadcasted the despicable violent attacks on police officers by the protesters but the EU can’t condemn this. What a shame. Let’s wait and see who their targets for so-called sanctions are.

 

[grotto]

Follow the $ . what purpose would killing people serve? He who has the gold makes the rules (until it is taken away from him). There has to be a better way to get rid of a thug.

 

[Kaninchen]

The EU too. Their one-sidedness is disgusting. I have watched many Western channels and only Euronews has broadcasted the despicable violent attacks on police officers by the protesters but the EU can’t condemn this. What a shame. Let’s wait and see who their targets for so-called sanctions are.

As a matter of interest, by what means would the EU (in and of itself) do the condemning?

 

[John_Lazarus]

If you’re defending Putin here, wow.
Russia has had her tentacles all over the east since the days of Pan-Slavism, and before. The Ukrainian people want independence. They want to go their own way, not to be dominated by Russia. They want to be a part of the western orbit. And Russia will not let that stand.

It would be nice if Ukraine – and countries like her – would be able to make it independently and not be in some other country’s “orbit”, “sphere of influence”, etc.

The West and Russia should not be an either/or.

 

[Seamus_L]

Today was a lot less violent than Tuesday, but a woman was machine gunned to death during an attack on government building in Khmelnytsky. If you have the desire to see it it’s on Kyiv Post.

 

[josie_L]

To all on this thread, please don’t bother responding to my posts. I will no longer be posting on this thread or here.

God Bless,

Andrew, I will pray that somehow Yanukovych gets ousted or steps down. God bless, my friend. I will miss you! :sad_bye:

 

[SeanF1989]

What’s spooky is Sarajevo was where Archduke Ferdinand was shot. That was the spark that lit World War I. Sarajevo is in the same neighborhood.

 

[drdalet]

God bless Ukraine.

 

[Kaninchen]

What’s spooky is Sarajevo was where Archduke Ferdinand was shot. That was the spark that lit World War I. Sarajevo is in the same neighborhood.

Except that they’re seven hundred miles apart of course.

 

[Cojuanco]

If you’re defending Putin here, wow.
Russia has had her tentacles all over the east since the days of Pan-Slavism, and before. The Ukrainian people want independence. They want to go their own way, not to be dominated by Russia. They want to be a part of the western orbit. And Russia will not let that stand.

The problem is that a lot of posters here see Putin the Great Social Conservative, who is restricting abortion, fighting back against those who call for so-called ‘same sex marriage’, and other things that may very well be wonderful policies to support. They’re essentially buying Putin’s propaganda, in the hope that at least one state is powerful yet socially conservative. They seem to forget that Putin’s government is much less enamored of the Catholic populations in Russia and the near abroad, and seems to be on course to do to Ukraine’s Catholics what he does to those in Russia itself, through his stooge Yanukovych. But that’s OK, because he hates the abortionists and the same sex ‘marriage’ promoters, apparently. What’s the lives and religious practice of a few brother Catholics?

I mean, at least with Catholics who supported Franco, it was somewhat understandable, as Catholics by and large were not persecuted by him, naturally. But Putin? Whose forces harass Holy Mother Church? And to see American Catholics, who should know better, shill for Moscow? Have you all gone mad?

 

[GraceSofia]

Archbishop Mieczyslaw Mokrzycki, Metropolitan of Lviv of the Roman Catholic Church:

“I think that the events on the Maidan are a chance for Ukraine if they will change the political system and lead to a more pro-Western policy direction. Thanks to them, there is hope for the healing of the state, for greater justice and for simplifying the conditions for foreign travel as well as for facilitating the conditions for foreign investors,” said the metropolitan.

Archbishop Mieczyslaw Mokrzycki said that Roman Catholics of Ukraine support the peaceful protest.

“The Roman Catholic Church in Ukraine, like other churches in Ukraine, expresses its support. Our prayer tent was erected on the Maidan in Kyiv. There Franciscans celebrate daily Holy Mass and lead prayers,” said the hierarch.

He also said that the Roman Catholic Church in Ukraine offers spiritual and moral support to the victims of the security forces.

“The faithful of the Roman Catholic Church are also taking part in the demonstrations on the Maidan. They are accompanied by priests, in order to create an atmosphere of solidarity, peace, and respect. Such an atmosphere of mutual respect and solidarity prevails on the Maidan. There we see a very different Ukraine,” concluded the Metropolitan of Lviv.

UKRAINIAN CATHOLIC UNIVERSITY AFFIRMS THAT RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE CURRENT ESCALATION RESTS SOLELY ON THE GOVERNMENT

This decision embodies our belief that at this critical time for the state, universities have to demonstrate their ability not only to function effectively without guidance from above, but also to become a mainstay in the formation of a new framework for education and social life in general.

The leadership and all faculty of UCU are in solidarity with the strike declared today by the students and support its demands. We live in one community and share the same values.

May the merciful Lord fill us all with hope and courage to sacrificially serve Ukraine during these difficult trials!

 

[Seamus_L]

It appears the temporary truce is over and there are now reports of between 17-22 people killed overnight in Kiev.