Ukraine

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josie_L said:
Who said this was true?
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Well common sense would indicate it so. Their MPs voted 78 to nil in favour, to add going with Russia to the referendum. The referendum had originally been planned for 30th March for MORE autonomy in Crimea (before all the troubles) and was moved forward to 16TH march to include the question do people want to go back to Russia.

And why hasn’t the Crimean government said they’re being held under siege, that they don’t want to go back to Russia and they want the Russians out? I’m quite sure they’re more than capable of doing so.
 
Maybe it was that conversion, I don’t know. Well, it was a good lesson about Russia and her borders. “His people” is exactly what he means. And imagine, his problem started in Kiev not Crimea. What’s that mean? I could see we need a “new” foreign policy
 
Monkey1976 said:
As opposed to the Ukranian government which seized power in a coup against a lame-duck leader - no matter how despised - who was voted into office in an election monitored by observers from multiple nations?
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It isn’t just about despising a government/leader, if it was only about that then I would agree, but this is about a government that was acting in an autocratic manner (the abuses have been catalogued on this thread ad nauseam) rather than democratically.
Right now, the majority of the US disapproves of both Congress and the President - do we force them out by revolution, or do we follow the rule of law and exercise our right to vote them out at the earliest opportunity?
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The situation in the U.S. is nothing compared to what the Ukrainians have had to endure, so please don’t compare the two.
I seriously doubt we’re getting only truth from any side: Russian, Ukranian, or Crimean. What I do know is that going back to status quo ante is effectively impossible at this point, so we can only hope and pray that there is a peaceful resolution to this situation.
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You can get enough truth out of the situation to delineate good from bad, and from what I’ve read about Putin, about Ukrainian/Russian history, about Yanukovych it should be pretty obvious.
 
The Crimea is not just another part of the Ukraine but already has special status. It is the Autonomous Republic of Crimea.

The Autonomous Republic of Crimea is an autonomous parliamentary republic within Ukraine and is governed by the Constitution of Crimea in accordance with the laws of Ukraine.

The Supreme Council of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea does not recognize the transitional Ukrainian government. It dismissed the regional government and elected a pro-Russian party leader as the new chair. Fifty-five of 64 MPs voted for dissolving the existing government.

The situation is somewhat analogous to what happened in the Ukrainian parliament where the MPs ousted the president and formed a new transitional government. At the time this happened the MPs voted in favor of holding a referendum on the future of Crimea on May 25 the same date as national elections are to take place. Sixty one out 64 MPs voting were in favor of the referendum. However many MPs did not take part in the vote.

"We are extremely bewildered by the statements being heard from Kyiv that the Supreme Council of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea has overstepped the limits of the Ukrainian legal field, in particular, when making the decisions to hold a republican (local) referendum on the subject of enhancing the autonomous status and powers, and regarding changes in the Council of Ministers of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea,
We consider these statements to be part of a well-planned campaign to discredit the autonomous republic and its leaders. The aim of this campaign is to prepare the ground for the implementation of a forceful scenario in the Crimea and removing the Crimean authorities, whose legitimacy, unlike that of Ukraine, cannot be doubted

digitaljournal.com/news/politics/op-ed-crimean-referendum-moved-up-from-may-25th-to-march-30th/article/374364
 
pepipop said:
Well common sense would indicate it so. Their MPs voted 78 to nil in favour, to add going with Russia to the referendum. The referendum had originally been planned for 30th March for MORE autonomy in Crimea (before all the troubles) and was moved forward to 16TH march to include the question do people want to go back to Russia.

And why hasn’t the Crimean government said they’re being held under siege, that they don’t want to go back to Russia and they want the Russians out? I’m quite sure they’re more than capable of doing so.
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Did you not hear me say that the new government of Crimea was formed during Russian occupation?
Armed men assumed to be Russian troops or pro-Russian militia stormed the Crimea Parliament building and locked it down. Anatoly Mogiliov, the president of Crimea, who is a member of Yanukovych’s Party of Regions, was ordered out.
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In a session not open to the public, the Crimea parliament allegedly appointed Sergei Askyonov as prime minister of Crimea. Askyonov is a member of a small, obscure political group called from the Russian Unity Party, which won too few votes in parliamentary elections in 2012 to win even one seat in Kiev.
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usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/03/06/crimea-political-system/6135359/

In other words, the new government which was not elected by the people, somehow got Sergei Askyonov as a prime minister of Crimea, even though he only won 4% of the votes in 2012, oh, and he also happens to be a member of the Russian unity party.
 
pepipop said:
The Crimea is not just another part of the Ukraine but already has special status. It is the Autonomous Republic of Crimea.

The Autonomous Republic of Crimea is an autonomous parliamentary republic within Ukraine and is governed by the Constitution of Crimea in accordance with the laws of Ukraine.

The Supreme Council of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea does not recognize the transitional Ukrainian government. It dismissed the regional government and elected a pro-Russian party leader as the new chair. Fifty-five of 64 MPs voted for dissolving the existing government.

The situation is somewhat analogous to what happened in the Ukrainian parliament where the MPs ousted the president and formed a new transitional government. At the time this happened the MPs voted in favor of holding a referendum on the future of Crimea on May 25 the same date as national elections are to take place. Sixty one out 64 MPs voting were in favor of the referendum. However many MPs did not take part in the vote.

"We are extremely bewildered by the statements being heard from Kyiv that the Supreme Council of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea has overstepped the limits of the Ukrainian legal field, in particular, when making the decisions to hold a republican (local) referendum on the subject of enhancing the autonomous status and powers, and regarding changes in the Council of Ministers of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea,
We consider these statements to be part of a well-planned campaign to discredit the autonomous republic and its leaders. The aim of this campaign is to prepare the ground for the implementation of a forceful scenario in the Crimea and removing the Crimean authorities, whose legitimacy, unlike that of Ukraine, cannot be doubted

digitaljournal.com/news/politics/op-ed-crimean-referendum-moved-up-from-may-25th-to-march-30th/article/374364
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:rotfl::rotfl:

Is that you “President” Putin?
 
josie_L said:
:rotfl::rotfl:

Is that you “President” Putin?
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Aw shucks, I was caught out! 😃

It’s all getting too confusing now. Yes, I recognise the Crimean pro -Russian PM was elected recently and overthrew the other one - I suppose the thinking behind that being if Ukraine can do it, then we can do it too.

Let’s see what the referendum throws up next week, I doubt it will be legally recognised anyhow.

Anyone know where the other Crimean PM went, as I can’t find anything much about what happened?
 
On and on it goes! Is it truth or rumor that Yanukovich has been hospitalized with a heart attack?
 
I just remember seeing the youtube video before - this should keep everybody happy. :D:D

youtube.com/watch?v=u3d_yxJhmjk&feature=youtu.be

english.pravda.ru/russia/politics/27-06-2012/121498-putin_jerusalem-0/

*Vladimir Putin was baptized at the Transfiguration Cathedral in St Petersburg a month and a half after he was born. Although his Father was a Communist, his Mother whose name was Maria, managed to take him there to make sure he would be brought up in the Christian faith. Putin remembers,

“She told me that when she and a neighbor brought me here to be baptized - they did it in secret from my father”

Putin was baptized on the day of the Archangel Michael who threw Lucifer out of Heaven. The priest suggested his name should be Michael but his Mother said they already had chosen to name him after his Father, Vladimir. The priest pointed to an icon of St Vladimir in the church and said that would be his icon. St Vladimir the Great was the first powerful ruler to Christianize Russia. The name Vladimir means to rule with greatness or to rule with peace.*
 
pepipop said:
I just remember seeing the youtube video before - this should keep everybody happy. :D:D

youtube.com/watch?v=u3d_yxJhmjk&feature=youtu.be

english.pravda.ru/russia/politics/27-06-2012/121498-putin_jerusalem-0/

*Vladimir Putin was baptized at the Transfiguration Cathedral in St Petersburg a month and a half after he was born. Although his Father was a Communist, his Mother whose name was Maria, managed to take him there to make sure he would be brought up in the Christian faith. Putin remembers,

“She told me that when she and a neighbor brought me here to be baptized - they did it in secret from my father”

Putin was baptized on the day of the Archangel Michael who threw Lucifer out of Heaven. The priest suggested his name should be Michael but his Mother said they already had chosen to name him after his Father, Vladimir. The priest pointed to an icon of St Vladimir in the church and said that would be his icon. St Vladimir the Great was the first powerful ruler to Christianize Russia. The name Vladimir means to rule with greatness or to rule with peace.*
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Obama was baptized too. 🤷 So have all the presidents of the US. 🤷
 
Tomdstone said:
Can you trust an election held in Ukraine, with the reports of neo-Nazis shooting innocent people according to the PM of Estonia?
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I trust the Ukrainians to hold an election. If you can provide a reliable link to Andrus Ansip saying this. I would appreciate it.😉
 
pepipop said:
What does my nationality have to do with MY opinions - and who is anyone else to say they are nonsense!
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Oh they are opinions. Because you have been posting questionable things as though they were facts. As for your nationality having anything to do with it. I didn’t expect such naivete from someone hailing from the emerald isle. 🤷 Snap out of it.

ATB
 
GaryTaylor said:
Are you saying Reagans evil empire 83 speech is back with a twist? 🙂
.
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As long as folks are speaking of saints and nationalities and you have referenced “Reagan”, coincidently I’m named after that Italian wall-builder. 😛
While I’m at it, I’d like to also say that although I do respect Putin for having restored Mother Russia after the tragedy of Chernobyl that seemed to have caused the division with the Ukraine which was known as the breadbasket of Russia before the contamination of their wheat fields, I’m not really taking sides.

The truth is that I’ve been baptized, received Holy Communion and Confirmed as a Roman Catholic American with Italian ancestry and I consider myself to be a disciple of truth and justice in the American way except that Jesus Christ Our Savior is Superman, not me and I’m only following in this thread His 8th Commandment.

rex
 
foolishmortal said:
opednews.com/populum/pagem.php?f=The-Looting-Of-Ukraine-Has-by-Paul-Craig-Roberts-Crimea_Euro_Putin_Russia-140306-182.html I heard about this columniat from a Catholic source not communist, pro-Russia, anti-West or anti-American and I am not that way, either. We are being misled by CNN, Fox, Beck, etc. about the situayion.
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Your source is also apparently not pro-facts. “If Putin lets Washington retain the Russian provinces of eastern Ukraine, he will have demonstrated a weakness that Washington will exploit.” Last I checked, the eastern part of Ukraine belonged to Ukraine, not Russia. Hence it being referred to as “eastern Ukraine” and not “western Russia.”
 
pepipop said:
So, so the Crimeans have no say in this? They’re just sitting there waiting to be ‘captured’? They ASKED Putin to help them out, they don’t want to be part of Ukraine as it is too volatile with an unelected government running the show. They have a right to ask to leave the Ukraine and become independent, Scotland are doing it within Great Britain, it is their democratic right. The fact they wish to be governed by Russia is neither here nor there. I suppose they could have voted for independence first and then gone with Russia, makes no odds. Other countries under the rule of one other can take a referendum for their independence from that particular government. If Scotland became independent and then decided they wished to be ruled by ‘Canada’ for example. Who can stop them?
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Do you not consider Crimea a pond stocked with Russian citizens the way NI was filled with Cromwellian cronies?

The land itself is Russian territory.
 
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