Ukraine

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CNN on body language analyst concluded Putin has a “my God is bigger than your God complex” and he for sure is a liar. And, Obama has a superman complex, and of course we know he’s a liar.

The decision to invade Crimea, the officials and analysts said, was made not by the national security council but in secret among a smaller and shrinking circle of Mr. Putin’s closest and most trusted aides. The group excluded senior officials from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs or the cadre of comparatively liberal advisers who might have foreseen the economic impact and potential consequences of American and European sanctions.

“It seems the whole logic here is almost entirely the product of one particular mind,” said Fyodor Lukyanov, a Russian analyst and editor

nytimes.com/2014/03/08/world/europe/russias-move-into-ukraine-said-to-be-born-in-shadows.html

“secret, smaller and shrinking circle of Mr. Putin’s closest and most trusted aides.” :eek:
 
Wrestling bears, driving around shirtless on Harley Davidsons, military fatigues, bare back on wild horses, Putin is either ruthlessly exploiting the media or he is a real-life action hero of such colossal scope that any movie starring him would seem absurd .😉 He topped our all time best action movie list. Certified GOLD medal Sochi.
 
Wrestling bears, driving around shirtless on Harley Davidsons, military fatigues, bare back on wild horses, Putin is either ruthlessly exploiting the media or he is a real-life action hero of such colossal scope that any movie starring him would seem absurd .😉 He topped our all time best action movie list. Certified GOLD medal Sochi.
😃 You mean like this?

 
Cheese and crackers! I will be laughing (which is good) for the rest of the day! lol
 
Well what else can my posts be - does anyone have any ‘facts’ about what occurred in Ukraine? The Ukraine riots instigated by EU/USA interference, the people and police shot by snipers on orders of the newly elected government OR Yanukovich hired the snipers, etc… the predictable completely opposite scenarios from the Western and Russian media sources. No-one knows the ‘facts’ that live outwith the Ukraine and that is a FACT. Everyone makes assumptions and those that think the Russians are the big old bad guys will interpret the situation one way, and Russians and people living in the situation will interpret it another.

*I didn’t expect such naivete from someone hailing from the emerald isle. 🤷 Snap out of it. *

One thing I never do on this forum is to refer to another poster personally, regarding their ‘opinion’ - (aside from this one time) - arrogance beyond belief. Lots of reporters on Irish news talk shows view the situation as EU/USA interference and are sympathetic to the Crimean/Russian position. Needless to say there will be other ‘Irish’ people that think the complete opposite - we do allow freedom of speech and thought in our country.
How you develop your opinions is every bit as important to the conversation, as the opinions themselves. Without that, we are left with dueling links, and rhetoric. Essentially a waste of time don’t you think? So, even though reporters are witnessing these things and reporting them to us. Often at personal risk I might add. You reject them for the obviously false statements from Vlad Putin.

Placing troops in a region, and holding a referendum should send up warning flags for you. How is it that it doesn’t? 🤷 I know that Ireland elected to stay out of world war two. But this is essentially how it started.

If you think that Europe can prosper with a soviet union sized empire holding most of the cards. By all means share how this can be so.

ATB
 
Is this true or is it not - I don’t know. It is not in any of the mainstream press, however it was an interview carried out with fox news by a US presidential candidate. I would ‘assume’ that as a presidential candidate, if it is totally false Kucinich will come out and say so.

intellihub.com/us-presidential-candidate-dennis-kucinich-says-us-instigated-ukraine-crisis/

*Former congressman says that “U.S. taxpayers’ money was used to knock off an elected government in Ukraine”

By Staff Writer

WASHINGTON (INTELLIHUB) — Tuesday evening while speaking to Fox News host Bill O’Reilly, Presidential candidate Dennis Kucinich dropped information on the situation that is rarely heard in the mainstream media.

In the interview, Kucinich revealed that the United States government was guilty of funding some of the violent rebel groups who have overrun the country.

When asked how he would handle the crisis if he were president, Kucinich replied by saying that:

“What I’d do is not have USAID and the National Endowment for Democracy working with U.S. taxpayers’ money to knock off an elected government in Ukraine, which is what they did. I wouldn’t try to force the people of Ukraine into a deal with NATO against their interest or into a deal with the European Union, which is against their economic interest.”

So, it’s the USA’s fault that Putin rolled in? We made them do it?” O’Reilly replied.

“Bill O’Reilly, if you don’t believe in cause and effect, I don’t know what I can do for you,” Kucinich said.*
Neither Bill O’Reilly, or Dennis Kucinich are worth listening too. One is an egomaniac, and the other has also reported seeing flying saucers. :rolleyes:

ATB
 
How you develop your opinions is every bit as important to the conversation, as the opinions themselves. Without that, we are left with dueling links, and rhetoric. Essentially a waste of time don’t you think? So, even though reporters are witnessing these things and reporting them to us. Often at personal risk I might add. You reject them for the obviously false statements from Vlad Putin.

*Possibly because I am obtaining information from totally different sources to yours. One being in relation to ‘cold war’ rhetoric, ‘feared’ empire building and potential WWIII, the other in relation to how the people actually feel threatened on the ground and living there. I’m listening to more neutral press and from additional sources, most importantly the people themselves, in addition to the other sources, e.g. the Estonian minister’s observations and the damning telephone evidence of Victoria Nuland in relation to the EU/USA intervention on the development of the Ukraine government.

So you’re saying everyone on this thread should all be singing from the same hymn sheet, otherwise go away?
*
Placing troops in a region, and holding a referendum should send up warning flags for you. How is it that it doesn’t? 🤷 I know that Ireland elected to stay out of world war two. But this is essentially how it started.

*Yes, Putin has placed troops in Crimea, although legally he has troops there anyway, and Crimea invited him in. Ok, the Crimean government was set up in a similar manner to the Ukraine one, c’est la vie. Putin said he did it to protect the Russian people so who’s to say he didn’t. I’d say his reasons are a bit of both, Crimea and the Russian people.
*
If you think that Europe can prosper with a soviet union sized empire holding most of the cards. By all means share how this can be so.

*How would Russia hold ‘any’ cards, if Crimea wish to be part of Russia? It’s like a game of monopoly then - no you can’t have any more land as you’ll be too powerful, who cares about your ‘people’ living on your doorstep, or what they want just stay out of it and stick with what you’ve already got,

What difference would it make to Europe prospering, if Crimea is with Ukraine or Russia? If anything, the Crimeans may have more disposable income to import more goods from Europe. I am not an economist nor a politician, so I haven’t a clue - I’m thinking about the people, in a very unstable region.*

As I pointed out in another post this is a response from a Russian Ukrainian living in Ireland. So do we ignore the Russian people that are indicating they are feeling threatened under the new government, which after a few days tried to ban Russian as an official second language? The EU had to come and tell the new government there should be respect for minority groups, not a good start.

*A native of Odessa in the south of the country who refused to give his name to protect the safety of his family, disagrees with Ms Kononenko. “Putin definitely made the right decision by placing the military in Crimea,” he said. “It will protect them from a civil war.”

This native Russian speaker said he often felt alienated at home. “This is about the culture and history of Russian speakers in Ukraine,” he said. “They make Russia out to be the enemy and so my family are now afraid. They worry about what will happen if they express their opinions freely.”*

ATB
 
Neither Bill O’Reilly, or Dennis Kucinich are worth listening too. One is an egomaniac, and the other has also reported seeing flying saucers. :rolleyes:

ATB
There you go, pot, kettle, black and why I do not link to my sources a lot, as they’re all ‘nonsense’. Only the anti-Russian ones seem to be true. :rolleyes:
 
Is this true or is it not - I don’t know. It is not in any of the mainstream press, however it was an interview carried out with fox news by a US presidential candidate. I would ‘assume’ that as a presidential candidate, if it is totally false Kucinich will come out and say so.

intellihub.com/us-presidential-candidate-dennis-kucinich-says-us-instigated-ukraine-crisis/

*Former congressman says that “U.S. taxpayers’ money was used to knock off an elected government in Ukraine”

By Staff Writer

WASHINGTON (INTELLIHUB) — Tuesday evening while speaking to Fox News host Bill O’Reilly, Presidential candidate Dennis Kucinich dropped information on the situation that is rarely heard in the mainstream media.

In the interview, Kucinich revealed that the United States government was guilty of funding some of the violent rebel groups who have overrun the country.

When asked how he would handle the crisis if he were president, Kucinich replied by saying that:

“What I’d do is not have USAID and the National Endowment for Democracy working with U.S. taxpayers’ money to knock off an elected government in Ukraine, which is what they did. I wouldn’t try to force the people of Ukraine into a deal with NATO against their interest or into a deal with the European Union, which is against their economic interest.”

So, it’s the USA’s fault that Putin rolled in? We made them do it?” O’Reilly replied.

“Bill O’Reilly, if you don’t believe in cause and effect, I don’t know what I can do for you,” Kucinich said.*
Yes, let’s talk about cause and effect, Yanukovych erodes the constitution and the laws of the land, defrauds the people, has his opponents arrested, harasses reporters (in fact he had a black list), is basically katowing to Russia . . . . and then the people revolt, i.e., cause and effect.

P.S. If the U.S. has intervened (and I don’t doubt this), is this a bad thing, i.e., do you know for a fact that Ukrainians did not want U.S. intervention?
 
how you develop your opinions is every bit as important to the conversation, as the opinions themselves. Without that, we are left with dueling links, and rhetoric. Essentially a waste of time don’t you think? So, even though reporters are witnessing these things and reporting them to us. Often at personal risk i might add. You reject them for the obviously false statements from vlad putin.

possibly because i am obtaining information from totally different sources to yours. One being in relation to ‘cold war’ rhetoric, ‘feared’ empire building and potential wwiii, the other in relation to how the people actually feel threatened on the ground and living there. I’m listening to more neutral press and from additional sources, most importantly the people themselves, in addition to the other sources, e.g. The estonian minister’s observations and the damning telephone evidence of victoria nuland in relation to the eu/usa intervention on the development of the ukraine government. Initially it was reported to be the Estonian Prime Minister. We see now that this was not the case. But in the end what does it matter. The Ukrainians wanted to be rid of Russia so they took the steps to accomplish this. Blood was shed on both sides.

so you’re saying everyone on this thread should all be singing from the same hymn sheet, otherwise go away? I’m saying tell me how you’ve drawn your rather pro Russian opinions. If it’s simply a matter of you making poor choices in your media selections. Well, that’s something that can be worked on. If there is something else at work here. Then tell us and we can discuss it.

Placing troops in a region, and holding a referendum should send up warning flags for you. How is it that it doesn’t? 🤷 I know that ireland elected to stay out of world war two. But this is essentially how it started.

*yes, putin has placed troops in crimea, although legally he has troops there anyway, and crimea invited him in. Ok, the crimean government was set up in a similar manner to the ukraine one, c’est la vie. Putin said he did it to protect the russian people so who’s to say he didn’t. I’d say his reasons are a bit of both, crimea and the russian people.
*
if you think that europe can prosper with a soviet union sized empire holding most of the cards. By all means share how this can be so.

*how would russia hold ‘any’ cards, if crimea wish to be part of russia? It’s like a game of monopoly then - no you can’t have any more land as you’ll be too powerful, who cares about your ‘people’ living on your doorstep, or what they want just stay out of it and stick with what you’ve already got,

what difference would it make to europe prospering, if crimea is with ukraine or russia? If anything, the crimeans may have more disposable income to import more goods from europe. I am not an economist nor a politician, so i haven’t a clue - i’m thinking about the people, in a very unstable region.* It’s not like a game at all. Russia holds most of the cards because the cards are called military strength, and natural resources. I realize Ireland has very little of both. But in the world, they are what matter.

as i pointed out in another post this is a response from a russian ukrainian living in ireland. So do we ignore the russian people that are indicating they are feeling threatened under the new government, which after a few days tried to ban russian as an official second language? The eu had to come and tell the new government there should be respect for minority groups, not a good start.

*a native of odessa in the south of the country who refused to give his name to protect the safety of his family, disagrees with ms kononenko. “putin definitely made the right decision by placing the military in crimea,” he said. “it will protect them from a civil war.”

this native russian speaker said he often felt alienated at home. “this is about the culture and history of russian speakers in ukraine,” he said. “they make russia out to be the enemy and so my family are now afraid. They worry about what will happen if they express their opinions freely.”* So, some crimean’s wish to be under russia’s wing, and some do not. Having a referendum while soldiers without insignia are occupying your lands. Well how could you defend that? As a further point, you seem to shine on what Vlad Putin is doing. As though either it’s not real, or somehow it doesn’t matter. Well as has been pointed out, the seizing of lands under any pretense is not going to be the way in this the 21st century. Eventually, either Russia does a course correction. Or, as many predict, Europe will be at war once again. Sadly, it may be left up to Russian Oligarch’s

atb
 
Only the anti-Russian ones seem to be true.
I think you missed the point, we don’t trust either. 😉 America gets a 👍 for the simple fact that just about all immigrants in this country who experienced political tyranny understands that true heroism is in standing for freedom and human rights against a real blood-stained tyrant, NOT against America that gives the hope of freedom to all those suffering from tyranny worldwide. Its why the United States has been so successful [when we stick to the Constitution] ; and more than 200 years later it is still leading humanity to a better and happier future [few minor issues aside] . Russians derive their definition of progress not from the American Revolution, but from by large Marx’s Communist Manifesto, you didn’t get where you are today from 100 years ago any other way. Admittedly there is a sway back towards Christianity, but this is still very mixed with other various rooted ideals of the past 100 years.
 
MODERATOR NOTE

I have deleted the photo-shopped pictures

Please don’t post them here
 
Got it in one, that’s my point - that’s just life and if I had been born a protestant in NI, no doubt I would have wished to be ruled by Britain. Take out of the equation that Russia are the ‘horrible bad guys’ and insert ‘economically safer and better the devil you know, guys’ it makes a big difference to the scenario. Yes, Russia under communism was evil, as is all communism, but it’s not communist anymore.

If the majority of Crimeans wish to go with Russia then that is their right to elect to do so. Additionally Crimea within the Ukraine has always had its’ own autonomy, been infiltrated with Russian troops legally, hence they are a special case within Ukraine.
For the last time, pepipop, the current government of Crimea was established while under Russian (foreign) occupation (they ousted the last prime minister, even though he was part of Yanukovych’s government), i.e., there was no public election and parliament was not subject to public scrutiny while they formed the new government. Now they’re having a referendum, but there isn’t an option to respond “no”, how is this a legal referendum?
 
For the last time, pepipop, the current government of Crimea was established while under Russian (foreign) occupation (they ousted the last prime minister, even though he was part of Yanukovych’s government), i.e., there was no public election and parliament was not subject to public scrutiny while they formed the new government. Now they’re having a referendum, but there isn’t an option to respond “no”, how is this a legal referendum?
It is a sad fact that most former Soviet territories face: elect Joe Schmo #1 who is, only slightly less corrupt than Joe Schmo #2.
 
P.S. If the U.S. has intervened (and I don’t doubt this), is this a bad thing, i.e., do you know for a fact that Ukrainians did not want U.S. intervention?
It would matter to me. I’d be interested in knowing who ordered the “intervention” and for what purpose.
 
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Mickey_Finn:
*so you’re saying everyone on this thread should all be singing from the same hymn sheet, otherwise go away? I’m saying tell me how you’ve drawn your rather pro Russian opinions. If it’s simply a matter of you making poor choices in your media selections. Well, that’s something that can be worked on. If there is something else at work here. Then tell us and we can discuss it.

I really don’t know how to answer this, you think I am contributing on this thread to learn how to change ‘my’ opinion and told as to what media I should watch. :confused:

Possibly, because I come from a non-threatening nation, that get through this world on a totally different basis - but you can be rest assured we’re known nearly everywhere in the world and usually in a good light. We fully recognise unfairness, injustice and don’t like foul play, as we were under it ourselves for long enough. We support the underdog, anyone being bullied - or quite simply, we like to keep on the right side of right. We abhor injustice.

As someone commented, in relation to the US tax funded ‘body language’ analysis on Putin.* I could study the bees trying to predict their behavior. Or I could study The Idiot about to shake the beehive, and immediately understand what’s going to happen.* That about sums it up. Stay out of each others’ playpens!

It’s not like a game at all. Russia holds most of the cards because the cards are called military strength, and natural resources. I realize Ireland has very little of both. But in the world, they are what matter.

I fully recognise that is the case. I know nothing about the natural resources in Crimea but do not see them adding dramatically to Russia’s own. In relation to military strength - a misnomer to a point, as one nuclear weapon and over and out, planet earth. I thought most countries were reducing their military forces, at present.

*So, some crimean’s wish to be under russia’s wing, and some do not. Having a referendum while soldiers without insignia are occupying your lands. Well how could you defend that? As a further point, you seem to shine on what Vlad Putin is doing. As though either it’s not real, or somehow it doesn’t matter. Well as has been pointed out, the seizing of lands under any pretense is not going to be the way in this the 21st century. Eventually, either Russia does a course correction. Or, as many predict, Europe will be at war once again. Sadly, it may be left up to Russian Oligarch’s *

Keep the West out of other nation’s affairs, and none of this would have happened. He did not ‘seize’ the land, he was invited, I take your point as to the military presence in Crimea and the referendum, but they are meant to be there to protect the people, you assume they’re there to suppress the people and I don’t know which view is correct but no doubt it will come to light on the 16th, with the western media saying they are being suppressed, and other media saying they’re not - so we’ll all be none the wiser…*
 
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