Ukraine

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Fixed that. 😃

America is a great country, and there is much to admire in it. But it really needs to stop putting its fingers in others’ pies. Besides, it shows a shocking lack of concern for countries where Christians are persecuted, and is eager to get into bed with religious extremists (witness the recent meeting of a U.S. ambassador with Modi in our country.) 🙂
Just to be clear, Ukraine is not Syria nor Iraq, nor are Christians persecuted there. They of course were persecuted there under the Soviet Union with the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church being the largest illegal church in the world at the time. Thankfully, it was in part because America “showed concern for countries” that the Soviet Empire toppled and Christians quit being persecuted. I believe America’s role in the 20th Century to have been extremely beneficent, in saving Western Europe from communism after World War Two, among other things.

I realize there have been major US mistakes in the Middle East but Ukraine is a different animal. I think sometimes Americans, despite the social views of any given administration, take incredibly for granted that despite its warts, it still is a beacon to much of the world. You would have to live in Ukraine to realize there has been No Rule of Law, no division of powers under Yanukovych, and incredible corruption, and that to live in a rule of law state, which the US is (perhaps imperfectly), would be a watershed change for Ukraine. These particular areas are where the West can be extremely helpful in helping a nation such as Ukraine into a “rule of law” state with a division of powers. Ukrainians desperately need this.

As bad as one might think living in the US is, it is heads and tails above a state like Ukraine. The Americans can help, even if only with soft power and encouragement. This is just the view, of course, of one Ukrainian, namely me.🙂
 
Germany has had a lot more involvement that the US has in this.
This is true. Indeed, had Merkel had the courage to threaten sanctions two months ago when the unrest began, much of the violence may have been avoided. I mean Yanukovych and his criminal clique stole billions from ordinary Ukrainians, and closed the door to Europe on ordinary Ukrainians, while Yanukovych’s oligarchs shipped all their assets out to Europe and sent their kids to study in the best schools in western Europe. Yanukovych’s ex-Prime Minister, Azarov, is now happily residing in a mansion in Austria. (Azarov never even bothered to learn the Ukrainian language even though he was the PM of Ukraine; this is basically how they treated Ukraine, a milk cow, with no regard for its history, culture, or language).

What really started changing things around last week was that America and Canada firstly, and then the Europeans, starting talking targeted sanctions against the criminal elite running the country. The oligarchs then panicked and lost nerve, including Yanukovych. Two months ago, Ukrainians were pleading with Europe that visa denials and asset freezing would do the trick and, in my opinion, they would have had they been threatened and done if necessary some two months ago.
 
This is true. Indeed, had Merkel had the courage to threaten sanctions two months ago when the unrest began, much of the violence may have been avoided. I mean Yanukovych and his criminal clique stole billions from ordinary Ukrainians, and closed the door to Europe on ordinary Ukrainians, while Yanukovych’s oligarchs shipped all their assets out to Europe and sent their kids to study in the best schools in western Europe. Yanukovych’s ex-Prime Minister, Azarov, is now happily residing in a mansion in Austria. (Azarov never even bothered to learn the Ukrainian language even though he was the PM of Ukraine; this is basically how they treated Ukraine, a milk cow, with no regard for its history, culture, or language).

What really started changing things around last week was that America and Canada firstly, and then the Europeans, starting talking targeted sanctions against the criminal elite running the country. The oligarchs then panicked and lost nerve, including Yanukovych. Two months ago, Ukrainians were pleading with Europe that visa denials and asset freezing would do the trick and, in my opinion, they would have had they been threatened and done if necessary some two months ago.
Several days ago, I was watching a Sun News segment on the Ukraine (Michael Coren), the person discussing the matter with the host was a Ukrainian Catholic, and it was funny because the words he said were the words I had just said to my dad, i.e., he said that there are too many David Chamberlains and not enough Winston Churchhills. I couldn’t believe it, but I think that pretty much sums up the way most foreign leaders are today (with few exceptions, namely our leader, PM Stephen Harper).
 
The Ukraine is in a very delicate situation now. Almost anything can happen.
If Putin doesn’t start destabilizing the situation, things won’t be so bad. I don’t know what he is up to, though he recalled the Russian ambassador to Ukraine.

The thing is there are many FSB agents (Russian secret police) in Ukraine and some of the Maidan protestors who were injured and kidnapped from hospitals (literally) and taken blindfolded to the woods outside Kyiv swear to the fact that in their opinion these were FSB men, by accent, by the similar questioning (who in the West is paying you?), and some other things. I don’t know but I do know last summer a Russian pro-democracy activist was kidnapped from Kyiv, Ukraine, by the FSB and ended up in Russia. There is also the suspicion that some Ukrainian politicians, like Viktor Medvedchuk who made Putin godfather to his kid, is FSB. Medvedchuk worked with the KGB in Soviet times and runs an unpopular movement for Ukraine to join Russia in federation, paid for by?

Putin has already began giving out Russian passports to people in Crimea, which could trigger an excuse to protect Russians. Crimea and Donetsk (where Yanukovych hails from) have the highest proportion of Ukrainian citizens who identify themselves culturally as “Russian” or “Soviet”. They also are two areas of Ukraine with the highest crime rate, according to political scientist Taras Kuzio.

The thing is with Crimea, it is not just Ukrainians and Russians, but Crimean Tatars who reside there. The Tatars were forcibly deported from their homeland in Crimea by Stalin after WW2, but many have returned, those who survived. The Tatars will not willingly submit to rule by Russia, and will stay in Ukraine at all costs.

Russia, the US, and Ukraine signed a Budapest Agreement guaranteeing the signatories to the inviolability of Ukraine’s borders. Putin hopefully will stick to this agreement.

There are areas of Ukraine with ethnic Russians, just as there are areas in Russia which were ethnically Ukrainian in the 20th century (the Kuban, not too far from Sochi) and still are (areas in Siberia to which Stalin deported them). The thing is things like Ukrainian cultural centers in Russia get shut down, but in Ukraine, the Russian language and culture survive and even thrive. A funny saying in Ukraine’s capital is that 10 Ukrainians will get together and start a conversation in Ukrainian but as soon as one conversant doesn’t understand and starts speaking Russian, they all switch to Russian.

The Ukrainian language and culture were decimated under Tsarist Russia and under the Soviet Union. There were many Tsarist Ukazes banning the publication of works in Ukrainian and each time Ukrainians would start writing in their native tongue, a new Tsarist decreed would come out making it illegal. A visitor from the West, an older cousin, could show up in the capital city of Kyiv in the Soviet Union in the 1970s, and ask for something in Ukrainian and be told to speak “human”. A prominent Ukrainian-Canadian communist John Kolasky, upon visiting the communist paradise in Kyiv in the 1960s, was so repulsed by the bigotry shown towards the Ukrainian language and culture by Russian speakers that he actually became an anti-communist. Knowing Ukraine, the Russian language and culture is not under threat; ironically, it is the Ukrainian language and culture which could vanish, but this honestly would take up 3 pages to explain.

My main worry? Some provocation, it could be big, an explosion, killings, done by paid provocateurs to tarnish the entire opposition to Yanukovych. This is a real possibility. It could be done by pro-Yanukovych gangs (though these are shrinking) or by FSB fronts. Again, this is not fact, this is just my subjective worry. Or maybe increased finances for anti-Ukrainian organizations.

I do hope however that Vladimir Putin does play a constructive role and not get off to an antagonistic imperialistic start. The fear is that since Putin is no historian and he does not believe Ukraine to be a real country but a colony of Russia. He said Ukraine was not a real country to George Bush. This is a complete misreading of Ukraine’s thousand long year history, much of it spent in separation from what is now Russia. But it was the history taught in Soviet textbooks about Russia, which Putin read. In fact, certain parts of Ukraine didn’t come into the Kremlin’s subjugation until after Word War Two. I think if Putin actually accepted that Ukraine is truly a sovereign country with its own culture and history would be a massive step in the right direction, and it could save lives, many lives.
 
Several days ago, I was watching a Sun News segment on the Ukraine (Michael Coren), the person discussing the matter with the host was a Ukrainian Catholic, and it was funny because the words he said were the words I had just said to my dad, i.e., he said that there are too many David Chamberlains and not enough Winston Churchhills. I couldn’t believe it, but I think that pretty much sums up the way most foreign leaders are today (with few exceptions, namely our leader, PM Stephen Harper).
Yeah, you got to click up to the 100s to get Sun News now. 🙂 at least in Ontario, if not online.

Man, O.K. all this talk of civil war and chaos is kind of telling me enough for today. 🙂

p.s. I’m glad Canada got the Gold in Hockey, eh?
 
Yeah, you got to click up to the 100s to get Sun News now. 🙂 at least in Ontario, if not online.

Man, O.K. all this talk of civil war and chaos is kind of telling me enough for today. 🙂

p.s. I’m glad Canada got the Gold in Hockey, eh?
Yes, at least that is something we can celebrate. It’s also good to be able to chat with you again. God bless! 🙂
 
Yes, at least that is something we can celebrate. God bless. 🙂 It’s good to be able to chat with you again.
God Bless,

p.s. for someone not Ukrainian, your posts on this thread on Ukrainian history, contemporary Ukrainian politics, Lenin, Russian population movements are incredibly well-written and contain things some Ukrainian Canadians would not know about.🙂

I don’t believe you’re Italian 😉
 
God Bless,

p.s. for someone not Ukrainian, your posts on this thread on Ukrainian history, contemporary Ukrainian politics, Lenin, Russian population movements are incredibly well-written and contain things some Ukrainian Canadians would not know about.🙂

I don’t believe you’re Italian 😉
It’s called good quality research and plagiarism (I know what to look for)!! 😃
 
I know that in Kharkiv pro-Russian supporters and titushky gathered to protect a statue of Lenin which they are afraid will be brought down, as many Lenins have throughout Ukraine since Yanukovych was impeached. As a Catholic, I obviously would like to see all statues to the butcher Lenin removed from Ukraine which country suffered so much from Lenin/Stalin, etc. etc.
As a human being, I would like to see all statues of Lenin removed. I am amazed there are any around. I can only guess it’s because people have been taught a sanitized version of history?
 
God Bless,

p.s. for someone not Ukrainian, your posts on this thread on Ukrainian history, contemporary Ukrainian politics, Lenin, Russian population movements are incredibly well-written and contain things some Ukrainian Canadians would not know about.🙂

I don’t believe you’re Italian 😉
O scordato di dire bueno notte, Andrew, e a la prossimo! 😉
 
Russian Orthodox primate’s appeal - read out in all the churches of the Patriarchate of Moscow – arrives after the violence on Maidan Square and the complete change in the political situation: Tymoshenko is released, a new interim president appointed, presidential elections scheduled for May 25. For now, Russia limits itself to freezing financial aid and keeping a close watch.

More…
 
As a human being, I would like to see all statues of Lenin removed. I am amazed there are any around. I can only guess it’s because people have been taught a sanitized version of history?
They removed a few already.

theblaze.com/stories/2014/02/22/watch-lenin-statues-tumble-to-the-ground-in-ukranian-music-video-that-will-make-your-night/

kyivpost.com/content/kyiv/revered-despised-forcibly-lenin-statue-taken-down-in-kyiv-333276.html

And the President is now wanted for “mass murder”. 👍

cbsnews.com/news/ukraines-president-wanted-for-mass-murder-of-civilians-acting-interior-minister-says/
 
Ukraine crisis: Russia brands new leaders 'mutineers’

In the strongest Russian reaction yet to the political upheaval in Kiev, Mr Medvedev said those now in power had conducted an “armed mutiny”.



Mr Medvedev, quoted by Russian news agencies, suggested that Western countries that accepted Ukraine’s new authorities were mistaken.
“Strictly speaking, there is no-one for us to communicate with there today,” he said.
"The legitimacy of a whole number of organs of power that function there raises great doubts.
“Some of our foreign, Western partners think otherwise. This is some kind of aberration of perception when people call legitimate what is essentially the result of an armed mutiny.”
He added: “We do not understand what is going on there. There is a real threat to our interests and to the lives of our citizens.”

bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26327211

This is not good. Russia could invade as they did in Georgia
 
The contemptible outrage coming from the former USSR and KGB is very telling. When a powerful crime lord gets taken down there has to be an attempt to clean up the mess and put the blame on another distraction. Example: There is no valid government in the Ukraine now, and no person to communicate with, nobody in charge and so disorderly. How many will buy this line? Hopefully nobody that wants there to be a country of Ukraine. The people will have to keep speaking the truth to each one they meet in a friendly, honest exchange. Arrest the crooks and make sure the evidence is exposed. The momentum is there, hopefully it will stay strong. The country should be sure and freeze all the assets so all the ill-gotten goods can be turned into places to advance the education and culture of Ukraine.
 
Nice video. 🙂
He added: “We do not understand what is going on there. There is a real threat to our interests and to the lives of our citizens.”
This is not good. Russia could invade as they did in Georgia
Yeah… the “our citizens” sounds like a pretext in the making.
 
A woman cries during a candlelight vigil at St. George Ukrainian Catholic Church in New York City on 23 February.

More…
 
The contemptible outrage coming from the former USSR and KGB is very telling. When a powerful crime lord gets taken down there has to be an attempt to clean up the mess and put the blame on another distraction. Example: There is no valid government in the Ukraine now, and no person to communicate with, nobody in charge and so disorderly. How many will buy this line? Hopefully nobody that wants there to be a country of Ukraine. The people will have to keep speaking the truth to each one they meet in a friendly, honest exchange. Arrest the crooks and make sure the evidence is exposed. The momentum is there, hopefully it will stay strong. The country should be sure and freeze all the assets so all the ill-gotten goods can be turned into places to advance the education and culture of Ukraine.
Yes, the evidence of Yanukovych and his criminal clique’s ill-gotten goods should be exposed. There is already talk of turning his mansion in Kyiv into a place for Ukraine’s orphans (I mean Yanukovych even kept a zoo there).

Here is another video clip from Crimea where some pro-Russian supporters are protesting against the Maidan. The clip is of a mansion on the Black Sea that Yanukovych was building for himself, again using monies looted from the people of Ukraine. This is in Crimea, which makes it all the more ironic that some people defend him there and applaud the special Berkut unit sent from Crimea to “deal” with the Maidan protestors and defend Yanukovych.

youtube.com/watch?v=Y0YLx3UJY1I

Yanukovych was building places like this all through Ukraine.
 
I found this on Voice To Watch, “Will Putin Try To Split Ukraine?”, by James Brooks:
On Monday morning, the Winter Olympics are over. Don’t be surprised if the Olympic host stops playing Mr. Nice Guy. The Kremlin has prepared the ground for a possible “peacekeeping” option.
I was in Georgia the week before Russia’s invasion on Aug. 8, 2008. The parallels between that situation and the current crisis in Ukraine are crystal clear.
The Sunday before the Georgia-Russia war, Russian state TV gave hysterical coverage of the evacuation of women and children from South Ossetia to Russia. Hysterical because the Russian TV reporter seemed to be on the verge of a heart attack. In contrast, the women and children boarding buses were as relaxed as if they were going to summer camp.
Similarly, Russian government TV is now in overdrive telling viewers that Ukrainian nationalists are neo-Nazi bandits paid and manipulated by the West. At the same time, the Kremlin is restricting dissident voices – TV channel Dozhd, Ria Novosti news service and Echo Moskvi radio.
And while Russia’s state-controlled media replace their portrayal of Ukrainians as Slavic brothers to with criticism of Western puppets, Russia distributes Russian passports in Crimea. This also was done in the region’s three Russian-speaking separatist enclaves that are now controlled by Russian “peacekeeping troops” – Moldova’s TransDniester and Georgia’s Abkhazia and South Ossetia.
If the Kremlin tries to engineer Crimea’s secession, it would fit with Russia’s divide and control policy toward its immediate neighbors.
Rather than seeking outright Soviet-style administration, the Kremlin prefers to be surrounded by neighbors that are weakened by separatist conflict. Not coincidentally, a new pan-Russian group called “Rusintern” was formed last week in Moscow. In an echo of the Comintern of the 1920s – the Communist International – its slogan is “Russians of the world unite.” Rusintern supports pro-Kremlin groups in the Baltics and Ukraine.
Last year, I visited three of these secessionist statelets – Abkhazia, TransDniester and Nagorno-Karabakh, a mountainous corner of Azerbaijan controlled by ethnic Armenians. One factor unites all three: ethnic homogeneity, achieved through violence and ethnic cleansing.
And that will be the rub for Russia in Ukraine.
In Crimea, 10 percent of the population are Crimean Tatars. Largely Muslim, they are dead set opposed to any return to rule by Moscow. During the first half of the 20th century, Moscow nearly wiped out the Crimean Tatar population through famine, war and mass deportations.
There is a second factor that would make any Russian “peacekeeping” in Ukraine more difficult: Russia’s Soviet-educated leaders do not understand that in Crimea and eastern Ukraine, many Russian-speaking Ukrainians do not want to be Russians.
Finally, there is a third factor: Ukrainians, generally under 35 years of age, who simply cannot speak Russian. I have found them in the West, but also in villages east of Kyiv. Some have studied Russian, but most TV is now in Ukrainian language. And in the West, some Ukrainians who still speak Russian, refuse to do so out of nationalist conviction.
Before Putin, a normally cautious leader, sends Russian peacekeepers into Ukraine, he should remember that wars are often easier to get into than to get out of. I write “war” because any Russian “peacekeepers” dispatched to Crimea or eastern Ukraine might be supported by Russian public opinion, but also face a possible guerrilla campaign of violent opposition.
blogs.voanews.com/russia-watch/2014/02/22/will-putin-try-to-split-ukraine/?from=lister
 
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