Ukraine

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Meanwhile back at the White House, Obama reads another meaningless speech full of empty threats off the Teleprompter. Unlike his empty threat in Syria not to “Cross My Red Line,” Obama now threatens not to show up for a meeting. WOW!

Putin, once again, makes Obama look like an amateur. I agree with others Putin must be shocking all over…from laughter.
 
It’s not about being an American first and Catholic second, Hans. It’s about being a globalist interventionist first and foremost.
Just as some people are baffled how a growing number of Catholics can express sympathy for Russia, many of us likewise are confused by others who can acknowledge the serious moral decline of the West, and yet adopt a 1950's Cold War mindset in the international arena.
 
MODERATOR WARNING

Please charitaby discuss the issues, not other members
 
“Obama, Obama don’t you care? Christian blood is everywhere,” :eek:

“The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam,” President Obama declared to the United Nations. Apparently the future can belong to people who shut down 1600-year-old churches and murder Christians. At worst, their behavior is “frowned upon” by the current Administration, and [the rest of the Western world] isn’t much more visibly upset than he is.

You see its “the Western world” not simply the USA. Did you say a Catholic state should be implemented? Its separation of Church and state. Orthodoxy in Russia is a “state Church”

However, the people of Ukraine do not want to be under the finger of Putins state, they are allowed to make their own mind up? Yes?
 
MODERATOR NOTICE

Also, this thread is wandering. Please stick to the crisis in the Ukraine.

This is not an abortion thread
 
KyivAndrew said:
Andrey Illarionov knows Vladimir Putin better than anybody here. He was Vladimir Putin’s senior economic adviser from 2000 and Putin’s personal representative to the G8 from 2000 to 2005. He wrote on his blog today, that:

“Putin is doing everything to start a full-scale civil war in Ukraine… to provoke one. The goal is to force and provoke the Ukrainian authorities to react, use force, shoot… for there to be losses. Corpses are required. Lots of corpses. The more the ‘better.’ The more glaring the deaths of this or that social group, the more effective [Putin’s] progaganda”

pravda.com.ua/news/2014/02/28/7016700/ (translation mine: sorry I can’t find it in English)

Ukraine’s Ministry of Defense is sorely worried about some provocation by ‘radicals’ tonight.
pravda.com.ua/news/2014/03/1/7016715/
The Russians have blockaded Ukraine’s coastguard and Ukraine’s armed formations in Crimea. The Ukrainians have not responded.

The Russians have apparently closed the airspace over Crimea
twitter.com/flightradar24/status/439472051850461184/photo/1

and I believe they took a main communications tower, as well as the two airports.

David Remnick from the New Yorker on CNN said Putin is “playing with fire” while General Spider Marks called it a Russian invasion of Ukraine.
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Out of curiosity, why would someone who worked with President Putin TWICE, post something that would make him look bad? :confused: Is it possible that he has an axe to grind? What is his motive? What does he have to gain from it? Surely, he is not doing it out of kindness? Thanks.
 
GraceSofia said:
Crimean Leader Appeals to Putin, Confirms Russian Troop Presence

So that gives the action some legitimacy.
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His actions? he’s creating a vision, something similar to Camelot from what I see. He made himself King and just so happens to be claiming he’s rebuilding Russia Christian heritage and identity. Clearly he see’s the West as decadent and under secular influence. Actually no different than the Pope “culture of death”.

Now as to if he’s blowing smoke and turns out to be just another maniac dictator? I really do not know. the financial aspect of the State also played a critical role in rebuilding Russia. They were circling the drain 20-years ago, like we are today. How he makes peace with God I have no idea, I’m just following the story line as I see it. 😉
 
This is just in from the BBC news…
**BBC - Putin seeks Ukraine troop deployment
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Russia’s President Vladimir Putin has asked his upper house of parliament to approve the use of Russian troops in Ukraine, the Kremlin says.**
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It follows discussions by the lower and upper house on ways to “stabilise” the situation in Ukraine’s Crimea region, where many ethnic Russians live.
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Earlier, the Ukrainian defence minister said Moscow had already deployed some 6,000 extra troops to Crimea.
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Kiev has accused Moscow of deliberately trying to provoke a confrontation.
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President Putin submitted the request “in connection with the extraordinary situation in Ukraine and the threat to the lives of Russian citizens”, the Kremlin said.
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He asked the upper house - which constitutionally must approve such a motion - for Russian armed forces to be used “until the normalisation of the political situation in that country”.
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Crimea is largely Russian-speaking and is home to Russia’s Black Sea Fleet.
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Earlier, the newly-elected pro-Moscow leader of Crimea appealed to Mr Putin for help to ensure peace on the peninsula - a request that would “not leave unnoticed” the Kremlin said at the time.
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It follows days of military activity in Crimea during which unidentified, but believed to be pro-Russian, armed men moved in to take over the regional parliament, state television and telecommunications hubs.
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Witnesses also spoke of seeing a build up of Russian armoured vehicles and troops in the area.
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bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26400035
 
GraceSofia said:
Crimean Leader Appeals to Putin, Confirms Russian Troop Presence

So that gives the action some legitimacy.
Click to expand...
Actually, the “pro-Russian” protesters who took over two airports and the legislature have been shown by numerous news agencies to be a small minority. This has all the hallmarks of a calculated takeover of the Crimea. It is the age-old canard to make it appear like one’s army is going in to protect “minorities” in a state, so as to blithely conceal an armed invasion. For fear of invoking Goodwin’s law, consider 1938 Sudetenland crisis. Germany occupies the most industrialized and important region of Czechoslovakia because German minorities were agitating for union with the Reich and claiming that they were being discriminated against. Putin is using the exact same tactic. He is a former KGB master of intrigue.

I really, and worryingly, see shades of Hungary 1956 and Czechoslovakia 1968, when the Soviets moved in. This crisis is like an old-style Cold War clash. :o

The Cold War seems to be truly reviving. Who wants to live with another decade of proxy wars between the West and Russia, as well as the all-pervasive fear that one miscalculation could lead to a superpower clash?

Putin would make a very grave mistake and share terrible responsibility if he, by his aggressive actions in the Crimea, blights the world with such unnecessary international tension. 1989-1991 was supposed to be the end of all that.
 
Russia’s Putin Submits Plans For Armed Intervention In Ukraine

Russian President Vladimir Putin has asked parliament for approval to use the country’s military in Ukraine, the Kremlin said in a statement Saturday.

Putin said the move is needed to protect ethnic Russians and the personnel of a Russian military base in Ukraine’s strategic region of Crimea.

nbcnews.com/storyline/ukraine-crisis/russias-putin-submits-plans-armed-intervention-ukraine-n41861

News services, including the Associated Press and Agence France Presse, report that Russian President Vladimir Putin has asked the notoriously rubber-stamp parliament for permission to use Russian military in Ukraine. Putin said the move is needed to protect ethnic Russians and the personnel of a Russian military base in Ukraine’s strategic region of Crimea.

However, the request comes after the fact.

Russian military troops already were systematically taking charge of strategic locations on Ukraine’s Crimean peninsula on March 1, with estimates of the number of Russian soldiers there ranging from 6,000 and 28,000.

The takeover came as the Crimea’s new pro-Russian prime minister, Sergei Aksenov, called for a referendum on March 30 to allow voters in the 2.2 million-population region to decide whether they want to remain in Ukraine, join Russia or form an independent state.

However, Ukrainian government officials in Kyiv questioned the legitimacy of Aksenov’s appointment and called a referendum on separatism illegal. Meanwhile, Russian officials and ex-Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych, deposed on Feb. 22, are questioning the legitimacy of the new Ukrainian government.

kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/tensions-rise-in-armed-standoff-in-crimea-between-ukrainian-and-russian-backed-forces-337942.html
 
gilliam said:
Russia’s Putin Submits Plans For Armed Intervention In Ukraine

Russian President Vladimir Putin has asked parliament for approval to use the country’s military in Ukraine, the Kremlin said in a statement Saturday.

Putin said the move is needed to protect ethnic Russians and the personnel of a Russian military base in Ukraine’s strategic region of Crimea.

nbcnews.com/storyline/ukraine-crisis/russias-putin-submits-plans-armed-intervention-ukraine-n41861

News services, including the Associated Press and Agence France Presse, report that Russian President Vladimir Putin has asked the notoriously rubber-stamp parliament for permission to use Russian military in Ukraine. Putin said the move is needed to protect ethnic Russians and the personnel of a Russian military base in Ukraine’s strategic region of Crimea.

However, the request comes after the fact.

Russian military troops already were systematically taking charge of strategic locations on Ukraine’s Crimean peninsula on March 1, with estimates of the number of Russian soldiers there ranging from 6,000 and 28,000.

The takeover came as the Crimea’s new pro-Russian prime minister, Sergei Aksenov, called for a referendum on March 30 to allow voters in the 2.2 million-population region to decide whether they want to remain in Ukraine, join Russia or form an independent state.

However, Ukrainian government officials in Kyiv questioned the legitimacy of Aksenov’s appointment and called a referendum on separatism illegal. Meanwhile, Russian officials and ex-Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych, deposed on Feb. 22, are questioning the legitimacy of the new Ukrainian government.

kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/tensions-rise-in-armed-standoff-in-crimea-between-ukrainian-and-russian-backed-forces-337942.html
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And here was me thinking that Putin, in a phone-call with UK PM David Cameroon just two days ago, had categorically promised that he would do nothing to infringe the territorial integrity of Ukraine? 🤷

Is he mad? Or just cock-sure of his own abilities? I suppose he rejoices in the fact that the US and EU can’t really do much in response apart from condemn.
 
esieffe said:
Thank you for that very important post! The Russian leadership are MASTERS of propaganda. Look how many fans they have right here in the CAF! This situation is much more grave then all the hot air from North Korea. Even if the US does not get involved, we could be talking about another Syria here.

The world has got to stand up to this aggression as firmly and as united as possible, so that lives are NOT lost, and civil ward does NOT happen. I will certainly be praying about this situation, and also that those people who have been deceived by Moscow’s ploys, open their eyes about who and what we are dealing with here!:highprayer::knight2::signofcross:

Saint Michael the Archangel,
defend us in battle;
be our protection against the wickedness and snares of the devil.
May God rebuke him, we humbly pray:
and do thou, O Prince of the heavenly host,
by the power of God,
thrust into hell Satan and all the evil spirits
who prowl about the world seeking the ruin of souls.
Amen
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Oh yes, clearly masters of propaganda. We all know that nothing America and President Obama says could ever be considered propaganda!

Hopefully it won’t be like that pesky business in Syria, where those pesky Russians prevented us from helping our buddies in the Jihad!

…The bottom line is, Russia is going to do whatever Russia feels like it needs to do to protect the rights of Russian speakers from this new group in Kiev, or to protect those provinces regional autonomy. Russia won’t be affected by Obama vaguely alluding to unspecified consequences in a speech. If America wants to actually try and stop Russia, well, good luck. But I believe Russian patience with the United States is starting to run a little low.
 
I don’t know what the Ukrainians are thinking. Are they thinking Russia will give up its warm water port? Are they thinking the USA will come to their aid? Have they forgotten about Georgia? They are most likely going to end up like Quebec. Or maybe Scotland if they are lucky.😃

ATB
 
Vouthon said:
Actually, the “pro-Russian” protesters who took over two airports and the legislature have been shown by numerous news agencies to be a small minority. This has all the hallmarks of a calculated takeover of the Crimea. It is the age-old canard to make it appear like one’s army is going in to protect “minorities” in a state, so as to blithely conceal an armed invasion. For fear of invoking Goodwin’s law, consider 1938 Sudetenland crisis. Germany occupies the most industrialized and important region of Czechoslovakia because German minorities were agitating for union with the Reich and claiming that they were being discriminated against. Putin is using the exact same tactic. He is a former KGB master of intrigue.

I really, and worryingly, see shades of Hungary 1956 and Czechoslovakia 1968, when the Soviets moved in. This crisis is like an old-style Cold War clash. :o

The Cold War seems to be truly reviving. Who wants to live with another decade of proxy wars between the West and Russia, as well as the all-pervasive fear that one miscalculation could lead to a superpower clash?

Putin would make a very grave mistake and share terrible responsibility if he, by his aggressive actions in the Crimea, blights the world with such unnecessary international tension. 1989-1991 was supposed to be the end of all that.
Click to expand...
The Cold War seems to be truly reviving, interesting, similar movements, Poland I read their pro-west news this morning I can’t find the link now.:mad: Austria, Paris…

kyivpost.com/multimedia/photo/protests-held-in-paris-vienna-and-around-ukraine-on-feb-16-for-euromaidan-336980.html
 
Mickey_Finn said:
I don’t know what the Ukrainians are thinking. Are they thinking Russia will give up its warm water port? Are they thinking the USA will come to their aid? Have they forgotten about Georgia? They are most likely going to end up like Quebec. Or maybe Scotland if they are lucky.😃

ATB
Click to expand...
My thinking also.
 
Putin seems to be using Hitler’s playbook instead of the Soviet one. What he did in Georgia and now is doing in the Crimea is just what Hitler did in Austria and the Sudentenland. Claim he is protecting the poor Russian minority, while he is really establishing a Greater Russia. I’m sure Poland and the Baltic states are worried as they should be.Hopefully, this doesn’t turn into WWIII.
 
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