Ukraine

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JordanJD said:
OK, let’s say that’s true, then why are you defending replacing Putin’s puppet with one of our own?
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I want a Ukraine for Ukrainians, simply put, do you? And I’m not American. God bless.
 
KyivAndrew said:
Exactly, and according to a CAF mod. RT is not encouraged on CAF, though some people here link to conspiracy sites with people commenting on Ukraine on these sites who don’t have the faintest understanding of Ukraine’s history, but feel free to comment because they are self-declared experts on neo-cons, American imperialism, zionism, etc.
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RT = propaganda
Fox News, MSNBC, CNN = truth
neo-cons, American imperialism = they are totally cool and legit ideas
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Seriously?
 
Ah so! The game plan by someone on this thread is to get it shut down! Not gonna happen!

Mr. Putin has had Plan A and Plan B on top of his desk for some time I would say. The timing of Yurakovich’s exposure was a bit delicate since there were so many people at the Olympics in Socchi. As they say in the real estate bus. “it location, location, location”. Why not take advantage of an opportunity to protect the people in the Crimea area from a “no brainer” like the all important “speaking the Russian language”. It would have been a lot easier on everyone to just install “press 1 for Ukraine, press 2 for Russian” But! while we are pondering language skills - move the big stuff in, takeover anything possibly worth more than two rubles - and announce that any more funny business and you can kiss that other half of the country goodbye also!

Guess this means “adios” for now?
 
josie_L said:
No, we don’t agree, i.e., I want a Ukraine for Ukrainians, not a Ukraine for Yanukovych.
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Yanukovych was elected by 48.9% of the population and won the presidency according to all Ukrainian laws at that time
 
I will be sure to remember all the people here decrying Putin’s actions in Crimea when the same people will be clamoring for war with Iran no doubt sometime soon in the future as our media likes to play the “Iran is a threat” card every year or so for ratings
 
grotto said:
Ah so! The game plan by someone on this thread is to get it shut down! Not gonna happen!
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That’s my fear. From my Tandy and recliner in my basement ;), let’s raise the level of discourse.
 
JordanJD said:
I will be sure to remember all the people here decrying Putin’s actions in Crimea when the same people will be clamoring for war with Iran no doubt sometime soon in the future as our media likes to play the “Iran is a threat” card every year or so for ratings
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You are seriously comparing the Ukraine situation with Iran? :doh2:
 
Seamus_L said:
The acting government in Kiev appointed oligarch Ihor Kolomoisky to head the Dnipropetrovsk Oblast in a move some suspect was done in part to demonstrate that the acting government is not anti-Jewish. Kolomoisky has duel Ukrainian-Israeli citizenship.
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No, that’s not the reason I believe. Kolomoisky does indeed head a European Jewish organization and did build a massive complex for Ukraine’s Jews in Dnipropetrovsk but the government has gone to him and other well-off business leaders in Eastern Ukraine in the other oblasts (Serhiy Taruta, and others) to temporarily man the oblast administrations because these guys employ quite a lot of people and Ukraine desperately needs some stability right now with Putin basically provoking war with Ukraine. All the heads of the oblast administrations belonged to Yanukovych’s Donetsk criminal clique, and they have either tried to escape Ukraine, went into hiding, or are seeking forgiveness, so quick replacements are needed, and I mean quick. You can’t build a democracy overnight with the Kremlin’s Putin sending in a large chunk of the Russian Army for deployment within your country and on its borders. Putin knows this.

I know you mostly disagree with me Seamus but that’s OK.
 
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Six thousand Russian troops in Ukraine - all to ensure speaking Russian in Ukraine? In Quebec they insist on French as Press 1 and English Press 2 but it didn’t require 6M RMPs!
Nobody is buying that and the G8 has announced that Socchii has been crossed off the list.
That’s gotta smart! All those hotel rooms.

:doh2:
 
Phalanx said:
You are seriously comparing the Ukraine situation with Iran? :doh2:
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No but politicians like McCain love to condemn Russia for “invading a sovereign country” while also singing “bomb, bomb, bomb Iran” with no sense of irony
 
ishii said:
This makes total sense to me. I have no idea why some here are defending Russia’s actions. Perhaps some are for longstanding family reasons. It amazes me to hear people bring up Iraq and Afghanistan as reasons to support a Russian invasion of Ukraine. Then they call an invasion a “placement of troops.” I guess the truth is the big casualty here.

Ishii
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From experience here, it’s because Putin cracked down on abortion (which is good) and on homosexual propaganda (somewhat good, though he IMO has gone too far). Therefore anything that will keep a socially conservative government in power and powerful is justified.
 
JordanJD said:
“I asked you for evidence for the NWO and you gave me direct video evidence and now that I have egg on my face instead of admitting I was wrong I will say something about blaming Bush despite the fact no one said that ever”
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I do not know what button I pushed but I do not understand. Scusa
 
Cojuanco said:
From experience here, it’s because Putin cracked down on abortion (which is good) and on homosexual propaganda (somewhat good, though he IMO has gone too far). Therefore anything that will keep a socially conservative government in power and powerful is justified.
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The general sense I get is that many catholic dot c o m e r s would support Russia and Putin no matter what–even in a direct confrontation between the US and Russia, just as long as Obama is president.
 
JordanJD said:
Yanukovych was elected by 48.9% of the population and won the presidency according to all Ukrainian laws at that time
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As I said earlier, I want a Ukraine for Ukrainians, not a Ukraine for Yanukovych (being a prime minister is a lot more than just getting elected).
 
ishii said:
Yes of course - the US is a reactionary imperial capitalist power bent on world domination. Reminds me of the Cold war.
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Well, Putin seems to be playing out of the Cold War playbook.
pepipop said:
Nope, they placed their troops in Crimea, as per a previously signed agreement that has being accepted,for years, between both countries.
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An agreement that requires them to coordinate troop movements with the Government of Ukraine. Not to do so unilaterally.

Please (name removed by moderator), enough with the Tu Quoque argument. Its BS when China uses it, and it’s just as BS when Russia does.
JordanJD said:
Gee that’s funny because in the last 2 elections there were antiwar protests in front of both the Democratic and Republican conventions and in both instances they were forced to relocate or get arrested.
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Seriously. TU QUOQUE. Look it up. It’s a fallacy, not an argument. Appealing to a fallacy for justification means that your justification is invalid.
JordanJD said:
RT = propaganda
Fox News, MSNBC, CNN = truth
neo-cons, American imperialism = they are totally cool and legit ideas
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More like RT=China’s People’s Daily = Government Mouthpiece.

I don’t know about other people, but generally on international news (especially European) I trust the BBC most. The AP and Reuters have also been doing a good job. I haven’t read anything by Fox or MSNBC (and only a few things by CNN).

I’ve distrusted news coming out of Russia for years, no matter what branding. There’s a reason that most drivers in Russia have dashboard cameras: The police are corrupt, the courts are more corrupt, and the media only cares about what Putin says it does.
JordanJD said:
I will be sure to remember all the people here decrying Putin’s actions in Crimea when the same people will be clamoring for war with Iran no doubt sometime soon in the future as our media likes to play the “Iran is a threat” card every year or so for ratings
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And yet the biggest difference is that nobody has actually invaded Iran yet, so this comment has exactly no point in being here.

Just a pointer, your analogies are terrible. When you make an argument and offer evidence, it has to have facts that are relevant to the point being discussed. Throwing dirt around is not an argument, which is what you’re mostly doing. All your arguing is basically “America is not righteous either”. Great, ok, we get it. Now go make your own thread about it because such arguments have nothing to do with the situation in Ukraine, which is the one we are discussing. Move on already.
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curlycool89 said:
Just a pointer, your analogies are terrible. When you make an argument and offer evidence, it has to have facts that are relevant to the point being discussed. Throwing dirt around is not an argument, which is what you’re mostly doing. All your arguing is basically “America is not righteous either”. Great, ok, we get it. Now go make your own thread about it because such arguments have nothing to do with the situation in Ukraine, which is the one we are discussing. Move on already.
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Yes, please, I’m getting tired of this U.S versus Russia theme that’s taking place (no offence to my American neighbours).
 
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