Ukraine

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pepipop said:
Without links stating these facts, I couldn’t say. I know Putin mentioned the discount gas prices to Ukraine, at the press conference today and with no mention of sanctions.
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Here, I’ll Google it for you:
google.com/search?hl=en&redir_esc=&client=ms-android-sprint-us&source=android-browser-type&v=141400000&qsubts=1393961336004&action=devloc&q=gazprom+debt+ukraine

The beloved RT also reported this:
rt.com/business/gazprom-cancel-gas-discount-779/

I’d search for more, but you can Google, too. I only heard it on the news.

As far as renting Sevastapol, how can/will he pay a government he doesn’t recognize, since Russia stopped the 15Billion loan?
 
tomarin said:
What are his options, and which is the most virile one?
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He can either start talking to Kiev and come to some sort of agreement----which I doubt will happen, or he can just back the troops out of Crimea and the Ukraine. Or he can wait for the Ukrainians to fire first-----or he can order the troops to fire first. Basically,go to war with Ukraine and hope at least the US will limit itself to economic sanctions and maybe aid to the Ukraine. I doubt Obama will go as far as boots on the ground. Maybe some airstrikes (MAYBE) like they did in Kosovo in the 90s.

He can just hope that he goes to war with only the EU and maybe NATO. He is certainly not going to allow Russia to get kicked out of the UN----since Russia is a member of the security council----and China has its back anyway.👍

You also forget-------if he backs out and pulls the troops out, he will be seen as weak and assenting back home. He will NOT be seen as that—remember. The Russian senators unanimously voted for him to go into the Ukraine. He (at least symbolically) has the “backing” of the Russian people on this.
And to be honest-----at least he went to the Senate for authorization to put troops in Crimea and the Ukraine----which is more than I can say for Obama in Libya. :rolleyes:

I see this as:
Obama: “You need to back out of Ukraine and the Crimea immediately.”
Putin: “Sorry, I will not do that.”
Obama: “Uhhhhhhhhhhh…you will not? Why not? Me and the international community are going to be very angry at you if you continue to do this.”
That’s basically how it is going down. :p:p

That’s how he is being “virile.”
 
gilliam said:
Russian state-controlled natural-gas giant OAO Gazprom OGZPY +7.43% Gazprom OAO ADS said Tuesday it would raise natural-gas prices for Ukraine—a move that ratchets up financial pressure on Kiev and raises the economic stakes in the standoff between Moscow and Western Europe.

Russia has cut off gas supplies to Ukraine twice before in recent years, in 2006 and 2009, in both cases citing pricing disputes. Gazprom Chief Executive Alexei Miller on Tuesday told state television the company would cancel Ukraine’s special price discounts starting in April. He cited Ukraine’s failure to live up to its contractual obligations…

Russia’s Interfax news agency quoted Russian Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev saying Gazprom’s actions were “justified” as Ukraine hasn’t yet made full payment for February gas deliveries.

In a televised talk with reporters, Russian President Vladimir Putin said that Ukraine’s debt to Gazprom stood at $1.5 billion -$1.6 billion, and should Ukraine fail to make full February gas payments, that debt will go as high as $2 billion.

“In these conditions Gazprom is saying if you aren’t paying anyway, then let’s fix the price at normal level, not the discounted one,” Mr. Putin said. He said that this measure has nothing to do with the current situation in Ukraine.

online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303630904579418711038114256?mg=reno64-wsj&url=http%3A%2F%2Fonline.wsj.com%2Farticle%2FSB10001424052702303630904579418711038114256.html
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Yes, and the reason he mentioned Ukraine’s gas debt, today, was in answer to a question about lending Ukraine money. He said he had not been able to loan the Ukraine any money, as promised, as he had to agree with his international partners before doing so. Something to do with the IMF. (Sorry I can’t find any links to this, I heard it first hand at his press conference).

I’ve now just read that the EU has now offered to pay Ukraine’s gas debt - and they just keep on ‘stirring’! No doubt, this will be cleared up later, by the Russian press, as that is not the way I heard this discussed by Putin at today’s conference.
 
OrdinaryMelkite said:
He can either start talking to Kiev and come to some sort of agreement----which I doubt will happen, or he can just back the troops out of Crimea and the Ukraine. Or he can wait for the Ukrainians to fire first-----or he can order the troops to fire first. Basically,go to war with Ukraine and hope at least the US will limit itself to economic sanctions and maybe aid to the Ukraine. I doubt Obama will go as far as boots on the ground. Maybe some airstrikes (MAYBE) like they did in Kosovo in the 90s.
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Actually, I meant Obama – no one doubts that Putin eats raw meat for breakfast. Or that he’s holding most of the cards in this situation. (In fact he always seems to have a strong hand.)
 
pepipop said:
Or maybe you need to be virile to play by your own rules in the first place? Most western leaders, IMO, are puppets with major decisions made behind the scenes. It would be heartening to think Putin actually gets free reign to run Russia, but there are too many billionaires out there that make me feel otherwise.
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AT least it is the APPEARANCE of being decisive and “virile.”

You seriously think Obama has come off internationally as “virile” here?🤷

Aside from that, I agree with you. 👍
 
OrdinaryMelkite said:
AT least it is the APPEARANCE of being decisive and “virile.”

You seriously think Obama has come off internationally as “virile” here?🤷

Aside from that, I agree with you. 👍
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Kim Jong Un of North Korea recently killed his own uncle – virile, no?
 
tomarin said:
Actually, I meant Obama – no one doubts that Putin eats raw meat for breakfast. Or that he’s holding most of the cards in this situation. (In fact he always seems to have a strong hand.)
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:p:p:p
 
OrdinaryMelkite said:
AT least it is the APPEARANCE of being decisive and “virile.”

You seriously think Obama has come off internationally as “virile” here?🤷

Aside from that, I agree with you. 👍
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’

No, not at all. Putin appears to be the only ‘virile’ leader out there at the moment.
 
OrdinaryMelkite said:
AT least it is the APPEARANCE of being decisive and “virile.”

You seriously think Obama has come off internationally as “virile” here?🤷

Aside from that, I agree with you. 👍
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No he thinks virility is the ability to not be constrained by rules, therefore Putin is the virile one. But we should listen to Kasparov.
 
tomarin said:
Kim Jong Un of North Korea recently killed his own uncle – is that virile or what?
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That is more than “virile.”

That’s “bad–s.” 😃

In an evil way, of course--------but still “bad–s.”🙂
 
tomarin said:
No he thinks virility is the ability to not be constrained by rules, therefore Putin is the virile one. But we should listen to Kasparov.
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Do not get me wrong----I agree.

The thing is, Obama is plainly being seen as weak and mildly accommodating here-------even the Washington Post pointed that out in an editorial today-----they even called his foreign policy “naive.” CNN was talking about that just now, as a matter of fact.

Putin, rightly or wrongly, is seen as dictating terms and sticking to his OWN terms-----not the other way around. He APPEARS “virile”—at least. :p:)
 
OrdinaryMelkite said:
Do not get me wrong----I agree.

The thing is, Obama is plainly being seen as weak and mildly accommodating here-------even the Washington Post pointed that out in an editorial today-----they even called his foreign policy “naive.” CNN was talking about that just now, as a matter of fact.

Putin, rightly or wrongly, is seen as dictating terms and sticking to his OWN terms-----not the other way around. He APPEARS “virile”—at least. :p:)
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My worry is that by sanctioning Putin as virile, we endorse a “might makes right” mentality.
 
Yes, Putin is rather exclusive “his people”

Thank God everyone agrees we have a sorry weak leader, can we get rid of him now? Hey does this tip the scales a little back toward “Church”? :sad_yes:
 
tomarin said:
My worry is that by sanctioning Putin as virile, we endorse a “might makes right” mentality.
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I am not endorsing that by any means.

Just pointing out how horrible our supposed “yes we can” President is acting and being seen as-----being dictated to and undercut by the leader of another country. He is coming off as wimpy when he needs to be strong as decisive. He is making a dictaor as being more stronger than he is.

That is all. 👍👍
 
Russia’s “virile” activities have included selling nuclear materials to Iran which has been practicing EMP-generating in-air missile explosions that would wipe out all electronics including those needed by America’s military; and now has a freighter hovering off America’s Atlantic coast…Ukrainians were starved to death by the millions by Russia’s Joe Stalin starting in 1929. This was the year, 1929, that Our Lady returned to Fatima visionary Sister Lucia and asked for the episcopal consecration of Russia to her Immaculate Heart, promising to convert that nation and as the “only” means to a period of peace; otherwise Russia would spread her errors leading to the “annihilation” of nations. Are we there yet? Can I get an “Amen”? Here’s info on how to join the Archconfraternity of the Immaculate Heart–one “Hail, Mary” daily for sinners, the Holy Father and the Church-- because political solutions just don’t work in the Ukraine or elsewhere. My enlightened self-interest desires to effect the “only” means to a period of peace. PS Didn’t anybody see this coming with the sanitized “history” of Russia in dance at the Winter Olympics?

pureheart.blog.com/2014/03/01/hello-world/#comments
 
Jerurussia said:
Russia’s “virile” activities have included selling nuclear materials to Iran which has been practicing EMP-generating in-air missile explosions that would wipe out all electronics including those needed by America’s military; and now has a freighter hovering off America’s Atlantic coast…Ukrainians were starved to death by the millions by Russia’s Joe Stalin starting in 1929. This was the year, 1929, that Our Lady returned to Fatima visionary Sister Lucia and asked for the episcopal consecration of Russia to her Immaculate Heart, promising to convert that nation and as the “only” means to a period of peace; otherwise Russia would spread her errors leading to the “annihilation” of nations. Are we there yet? Can I get an “Amen”? Here’s info on how to join the Archconfraternity of the Immaculate Heart–one “Hail, Mary” daily for sinners, the Holy Father and the Church-- because political solutions just don’t work in the Ukraine or elsewhere. My enlightened self-interest desires to effect the “only” means to a period of peace. PS Didn’t anybody see this coming with the sanitized “history” of Russia in dance at the Winter Olympics?

pureheart.blog.com/2014/03/01/hello-world/#comments
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I agree with this-----again, I am not saying it is right that Putin is seen as “virile.”

I am seeing that is unfortunately the way he is seen as.

That is all.
 
OrdinaryMelkite said:
I am not endorsing that by any means.

Just pointing out how horrible our supposed “yes we can” President is acting and being seen as-----being dictated to and undercut by the leader of another country. He is coming off as wimpy when he needs to be strong as decisive. He is making a dictaor as being more stronger than he is.

That is all. 👍👍
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I would be more afraid of the situation if I thought Obama had an inner “John Wayne” to channel.
 
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