Ukrainian president says his country is ready to go to war with Russia and says the crisis there is more dangerous than the spread of ISIS

[Ridgerunner]

So it’s the simple sadistic impulse that makes newlyweds lay the bride’s bouquet at Stalin’s grave?

That’s not what I said. Certainly a lot of Russians believe Stalin was a good leader despite knowing his crimes. Lenin has been whitewashed for decades by the leaders in Russia. Do I blame the newlyweds for honoring the monster, Lenin? No. But I do blame their leaders who maintain a shrine to that killer, do not lay his crimes bare for all to see, and aid people in believing that honoring a worse man than Hitler is okay.

Imagine Germany naming a police unit the “Himmler brigage” or the “Eichmann brigade”. People would be horrified, and German leaders (if not the whole country) would be roundly condemned, and rightly so. And yet, Putin names one after Dzerzhinsky and nobody bats an eye or questions that he somehow is bringing Christianity back to Russia.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Yes, Russia gets world attention because it does have a first rate nuclear arsenal. And it is maintaining and upgrading that arsenal. That will keep the world’s attention. The U.S., meanwhile has a nuclear arsenal that has been neglected and allowed to deteriorate. The more that happens, the less it deters Russia. And it’s purpose in the past, and increasingly so once again, is to deter Russia, and any other nation which might think of using such an arsenal. A neglected and deteriorating deterrent force does not deter. It rather signals weakness and encourages aggression.

Some people believe that if the U.S. is weak enough, it will somehow ensure peace in the world. And Obama is one of them.

 

[seekerz]

IMHO, the best solution is to separate the country into West and East Ukraine, two regions, or even better, two countries. I say that because from the news reports it appears that neither side is too fond of the other. Some on the west have been calling for all Russians to leave the country, and there were reports a while ago of Russian priests being beaten up. While in the East, they don’t seem to want to have anything to do with Kiev. Why not stop the fighting, and break the country up in two and let each side live in peace separate from the other?

They lived as one country before, despite their differences. I think this would set a bad precedent, considering the number of countries in the world where groups of people hate each other (make that 99.9999%). There was a vote, no? The opposing side should just suck it up without any violence until they have enough support to do things their way. That’s how democracy works.

 

[edwest2]

IMHO, the best solution is to separate the country into West and East Ukraine, two regions, or even better, two countries. I say that because from the news reports it appears that neither side is too fond of the other. Some on the west have been calling for all Russians to leave the country, and there were reports a while ago of Russian priests being beaten up. While in the East, they don’t seem to want to have anything to do with Kiev. Why not stop the fighting, and break the country up in two and let each side live in peace separate from the other?

None of the reports coming in suggest that Russia wants such a state. They want the whole of Ukraine. A reading of the exchanges between rebel groups and the legitimate Ukrainian government shows the rebels are fakes. Agitators. If the Russians are sending in tanks and constructive and legitimate dialogue has ended then Ukraine has no choice. This is all Russia’s doing. First, Crimea…

Ed

 

[edwest2]

That’s not what I said. Certainly a lot of Russians believe Stalin was a good leader despite knowing his crimes. Lenin has been whitewashed for decades by the leaders in Russia. Do I blame the newlyweds for honoring the monster, Lenin? No. But I do blame their leaders who maintain a shrine to that killer, do not lay his crimes bare for all to see, and aid people in believing that honoring a worse man than Hitler is okay.

Imagine Germany naming a police unit the “Himmler brigage” or the “Eichmann brigade”. People would be horrified, and German leaders (if not the whole country) would be roundly condemned, and rightly so. And yet, Putin names one after Dzerzhinsky and nobody bats an eye or questions that he somehow is bringing Christianity back to Russia.

And the Western media was leading the cover up of Stalin’s crimes for decades so as to not provoke our nuclear armed enemy. It’s time for the lies to end. Stalin should not be compared to Hitler. He was his own man. And Lenin?

Imagine being someone who simply killed anyone who didn’t agree with him or send even military officers to work camps, stripped of their rank.

In World War II, there was a Ukrainian unit fighting the Russians: the SS Galicia Division.
The German Order Police worked closely with the SS.

The other thing about Soviet Russia, an intelligence apparatus second to none. Say the wrong thing and you were likely to disappear. The “Iron Curtain” was quite real and the average Russian was grateful that Stalin won “The Great Patriotic War.”

Ed

 

[triumphguy]

They lived as one country before, despite their differences. I think this would set a bad precedent, considering the number of countries in the world where groups of people hate each other (make that 99.9999%). There was a vote, no? The opposing side should just suck it up without any violence until they have enough support to do things their way. That’s how democracy works.

The American colonies lived as one state with Britain until 1776 - are you saying it was wrong for Americans to fight the war of Independence?

 

[JimG]

That’s not what I said. Certainly a lot of Russians believe Stalin was a good leader despite knowing his crimes. Lenin has been whitewashed for decades by the leaders in Russia. Do I blame the newlyweds for honoring the monster, Lenin? No. But I do blame their leaders who maintain a shrine to that killer, do not lay his crimes bare for all to see, and aid people in believing that honoring a worse man than Hitler is okay.

Imagine Germany naming a police unit the “Himmler brigage” or the “Eichmann brigade”. People would be horrified, and German leaders (if not the whole country) would be roundly condemned, and rightly so. And yet, Putin names one after Dzerzhinsky and nobody bats an eye or questions that he somehow is bringing Christianity back to Russia.

Oh yes, I quite agree. I was juxtaposing your post with Exiled Child’s post because I thought that the newlyweds who visit Lenin’s shrine might not be led just by sadistic impulses. At least I hope not. It’s also too bad that his grave is thought worthy of a visit.

 

[JimG]

Some people believe that if the U.S. is weak enough, it will somehow ensure peace in the world. And Obama is one of them.

It certainly looks like it, and its a dangerous belief, in my view. I think that deliberate U.S. weakness is more likely to lead to war.

 

[edwest2]

It certainly looks like it, and its a dangerous belief, in my view. I think that deliberate U.S. weakness is more likely to lead to war.

I’ve seen no signs of US weakness. Who flies the drones, drops bombs on whoever, has military units stationed around the globe, announced a global, 24 hour strike capability? The media doesn’t care to report on that. What is the X-37B doing? No one is talking.

And war with who? China? Russia? Everything from submarines to fighter-bombers can carry nuclear weapons. And B-52 contrails? I see the same ones I saw when I was a boy. One can carry six nuclear cruise missiles on each wing, along with the bigger, higher yield bombs.

Ed

 

[JimG]

I’ve seen no signs of US weakness. Who flies the drones, drops bombs on whoever, has military units stationed around the globe, announced a global, 24 hour strike capability? The media doesn’t care to report on that. What is the X-37B doing? No one is talking.

And war with who? China? Russia? Everything from submarines to fighter-bombers can carry nuclear weapons. And B-52 contrails? I see the same ones I saw when I was a boy. One can carry six nuclear cruise missiles on each wing, along with the bigger, higher yield bombs.

Ed

Exactly so–the same B-52’s you saw when you were a boy. And although you don’t see them, the same aging ICBM deterrent force that has been reduced and its people demoralized. A bomber can carry a number of weapons. But an ICBM is a better deterrent because it can be launched in 1 minute and arrive on target in 30 minutes. It made Russia think twice on more than one occasion. It’s not making Putin think twice.

 

[edwest2]

Exactly so–the same B-52’s you saw when you were a boy. And although you don’t see them, the same aging ICBM deterrent force that has been reduced and its people demoralized. A bomber can carry a number of weapons. But an ICBM is a better deterrent because it can be launched in 1 minute and arrive on target in 30 minutes. It made Russia think twice on more than one occasion. It’s not making Putin think twice.

I strongly disagree. The public cannot be told certain things because then the enemy will know. All we get are bits. Both the US and UK have laser weapons that can shoot down a missile. No more missile trying to hit a missile, but a speed of light weapon that is operational. I lived throughout the period 1959 till today and never lost a second of sleep over the ICBM threat. No one knows what our intelligence community knows. A particular, once secret Office does nothing but monitor and analyze satellite images. A book written around 5 B.C. tells the reader that deception is the key to military strategy.

All I know is that an unmanned X-37B that is officially an unknown quantity flying successfully in space has a purely military purpose. Demoralized? Maybe by the media who print nonsense instead of real news. Defense capabilities have increased greatly in the last 10 years.

Ed

 

[Tomdstone]

None of the reports coming in suggest that Russia wants such a state. They want the whole of Ukraine. A reading of the exchanges between rebel groups and the legitimate Ukrainian government shows the rebels are fakes. Agitators. If the Russians are sending in tanks and constructive and legitimate dialogue has ended then Ukraine has no choice. This is all Russia’s doing. First, Crimea…

Ed

The Russian speaking Ukranians in the East have made it clear that they do not want to be part of a Ukraine which does not accept them. And by deposing a lawfully and freely elected president who was fair to the people in the East, the Kiev crowd has made it clear that they do not want any Russian speakers in their government. So IMHO, the best outcome would be for the East and West to separate into two countries.

 

[Tomdstone]

The American colonies lived as one state with Britain until 1776 - are you saying it was wrong for Americans to fight the war of Independence?

Good point.

 

[Tomdstone]

I think this would set a bad precedent, considering the number of countries in the world where groups of people hate each other (make that 99.9999%).

I believe it would be false for someone to imply that 99.9999% of the countries of the world have divisions so deep that there are credible movements to separate the country into two.

 

[Tbrightson]

The Russian speaking Ukranians in the East have made it clear that they do not want to be part of a Ukraine which does not accept them. .

If that is true, then they are reaping what they sowed:

voanews.com/content/pro-moscow-separatists-face-health-crisis/2525955.html

"Resident protests

This week there were signs that some of the residents of the Donbas are getting frustrated with the standoff between the separatists and Kyiv. Small anti-separatist protests mounted mainly by women and pensioners have been appearing. The so-called “hunger protests” are mainly springing up in the smaller towns.

In Sverdlovsk on Monday about 2,000 people participated in an anti-separatist protest and held up pro-Ukraine banners. They demanded Russian troops - the fighters say they are “volunteers” - to leave the town"

 

[seekerz]

The American colonies lived as one state with Britain until 1776

No they didn’t. They lived as a colony of Britain - humongous difference. Maybe it would be a little more comparable if France had funded the Boston Tea Party and sent it’s soldiers to help dump the tea!

What it actually looks like is that Russia’s mad and jealous because what they consider their modern-day colony (Ukraine) is now cutting the apron strings. Why are the chest-thumping political figures so insanely scared of an itty-bitty piece of paper cast into a ballot box? Putin needs to curb his czarist delusions and stay on his side of the fence.

 

[seekerz]

I believe it would be false for someone to imply that 99.9999% of the countries of the world have divisions so deep that there are credible movements to separate the country into two.

Those divisions suddenly appeared? No, the exercise of democracy is what started it all, methinks.

And back to that comparison with 1776, America did not fight a war of Independence so it could go and become a vassal state of any power.

 

[AnastasiaRomano]

The Russian speaking Ukranians in the East have made it clear that they do not want to be part of a Ukraine which does not accept them. And by deposing a lawfully and freely elected president who was fair to the people in the East, the Kiev crowd has made it clear that they do not want any Russian speakers in their government. So IMHO, the best outcome would be for the East and West to separate into two countries.

Do eastern Ukrainians really not want to be part of Ukraine? Certainly the pro-separatist sentiment is higher in the East, but polls had indicated that a solid majority in the East (I think it was 70%) preferred to remain part of Ukraine. And then of course Igor Girkin aka Strelkov, the Russian intelligence officer who ran things in Slovyansk, vocally complained about the lack of support among the local population for the separatists. When Slovyansk was liberated by the Ukrainian army, residents there rejoiced! Yet the separatists and the Kremlin still speak as if every Russian-speaker in eastern Ukraine supports them.

Here’s a story from Mariupol, a large port city on the Sea of Azov. Initially, the majority of Mariupol residents were far more sympathetic to Russia than to Kyiv. But opinions have changed noticeably as Russian troops and tanks have “helped” separatists and separatists and the Kremlin have claimed that now-peaceful Mariupol is in danger from fascists and that the separatists want to take Mariupol.

bloombergview.com/articles/2014-11-19/putins-big-mistake

Alexander Makarov is an ethnic Russian, proud that he can trace his family’s roots to 16th century Russian chronicles. At the start of the crisis in Ukraine, he, like many people in this city, was hostile to the revolution in Kiev. …

It used to irritate Makarov, a 62-year-old radio engineer, that whenever he needed to write officially to his boss in Donetsk – also a native Russian speaker – he had to do so in Ukrainian. …

It angered Makarov still more when the so-called Maidan protesters in Kiev seemed willing to risk Ukraine’s ties with Russia over a trade deal with the European Union. Most of his friends and family live across the Russian border, just 30 miles away. He even accepted Russia’s decision to take Crimea, because “it was never truly Ukrainian.”

But Makarov’s view changed when Putin started sending troops into eastern Ukraine. The death toll quickly doubled and today stands above 4,000. In August, Russian units crossed the border to march on Mariupol, stopping only when Putin and Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko signed a cease-fire agreement. The city staged its first pro-Ukraine rallies. Most of Makarov’s team at work changed their minds too, he says.

Makarov trusts Ukrainian TV news reports no more than Russia’s, but he can see that Mariupol faces no risk of being ethnically cleansed by fascists, as Putin claimed this week. …

I asked Makarov if he thought Putin had made a strategic mistake by fuelling the war in Ukraine.

“A mistake is when you forget to put on the tea,” he said caustically. “He has done what should never have been done.”

 

[Tbrightson]

I just really got to laugh at these seperatist imbeciles.

They proclaim their independence from Ukraine, then demand alimony:

news.yahoo.com/russia-warns-military-assault-east-093417035.html

MOSCOW (AP) — Russia’s foreign policy chief on Wednesday claimed that Ukraine’s decision to freeze budget payments to the eastern rebel-held territories could be a precursor to a military onslaught.

Ukrainian officials announced earlier this month that they will freeze the $2.6 billion in state support to the areas now in rebel hands, which could further worsen the deplorable economic situation there.

I feel bad for the people there who dont want no part of this “NovoRussia”. Those that do, not so much - they brought it on themselves

 

[Ridgerunner]

Do eastern Ukrainians really not want to be part of Ukraine? Certainly the pro-separatist sentiment is higher in the East, but polls had indicated that a solid majority in the East (I think it was 70%) preferred to remain part of Ukraine.

Even the majority of Russian speakers in the East want to remain part of Ukraine.

pewglobal.org/2014/05/08/despite-concerns-about-governance-ukrainians-want-to-remain-one-country/