UN Panel: Israeli Settlements Are Illegal

[danrooke]

iamrefreshed,

I don’t believe YKohen or I were hypocritical in my statements, nor using false logic, please put out my failing and allow me to resolve them by amending them.

Dan.

YKohen,

I do not have the authority to answer questions for which I do not know. This is why I may not have given the proper or correct attention to the evidence you presented.

I SEE NOW, the argument has been led!!! One side argues a reason justifying the War the other says that reason is false. That what we are have been doing right? We have (and our predecessors) been both of these people. Peace is the FIRST goal here, justice comes afterwards.

If no conflict existed, the right environment for the historical arguments would make sense as the goal would then be to sort out the right a proper way to govern et cetera. Because people are dying, then you and I will only ever be justifying the conflict by using history.

Do you see? It’s not that Israel or Palestine should or shouldn’t exist. We are either condemning the conflict and trying to find ways to stop it, or justifying the conflict, trying to find ways to continue it.

I believe that Israeli government it the only power able to bring peace. That’s really my only point, that’s what my experiences have shown me on both sides of the wall. Therefore anything else I have said I’ll un-say. If you disagree, tell me who you think has the power to bring peace?

A long PS: I did not go to the Holy land on a visit, I did not go there hating Israel or wanting to hurt it, I went there to teach English to children in Beit Jala who didn’t know English. At the weekends we were able to travel as far as our means could take us, and that was the extent of my being there. No malice, no hate, and no preconceived notions except a basic understanding of what I may encounter. The Holy Land is beautiful and I hope to see more when i return in the summer. If you like I could see even try to visit you?

Dan

Onesheep,

It appears I have written incorrectly as it seems I agree with you on all points of rebuttal. I would probably recount all my own points in that case.

Dan.

 

[danrooke]

Hello Chosen people,

Aside from your sources being of newspaper quality, lacking the credentials of a Scholarly article, and some starting from Bias, I can testify that I met no shooting of Guns in Beit Jala, I found the Muslims in Bethlehem accommodating, and I no nothing of the “children of Deggendorf” reference until you sent the citation. It would appear to be a terrible massacre.

I could mention the way Palestinians are treated in Nabulus; I could mention this post ncronline.org/news/global/christians-nearly-absent-holy-land, then blame Israel for the decline in Catholic is in the whole of the holy land.

We could do this battle all day. Where does peace come in? I don’t want to fight you. I would like to personally distance myself from my former use of angry language. I wrote from rage and now I understand what I have said was wrong. God is love, Conflict is hate.

Pardon my youth,

Dan

 

[OneSheep]

My point is not that the Church has “failed to forgive”. My point is that even in Catholicism, there is no such thing as forgiving without repentance. These Papal Bulls and other Church documents and actions bear that out.

You, as a Catholic, have a principle of Papal infallibility. From a traditional Catholic position, it cannot possibly be that the Popes have failed on a doctrinal level.

Jesus continues to provide the example to us Catholics that there is indeed forgiveness without repentance. Do not feel compelled to agree with this. This is our truth, but not yours. Its okay. Everyone, popes included, are capable of error.

“Infallibility” has a very limited application when it comes to statements put out by the papacy.

And I disagree: when there is forgiveness without repentance, it only leads to injustice and tyranny.

Well, I am open-minded about your assertion there. Let us do an investigation. Let us start by you answering the question about the Palestinian who forgives. However, it appears that I have some clarifying to do. Help me on this.

Let me be a Palestinian for a moment. YKohen, your people have taken my land and have killed my children. I know you think I have deserved this. I forgive you. I understand your position, and I will no longer hold it against you. You see this land as yours, and you fear us and despise us, especially when we react violently. I am just as capable of wanting your land and despising you, and in fact I am guilty of these things too. I have in the past wanted to continue punishing you for what you have done to me, but I no longer want to do so. I am forgiving you even though you have not repented from taking our land, restricting our freedom, and killing us. I am doing so because this is the reconciliation and peace that my soul wants.

What is your response to this Palestinian?

Again, since this isn’t what happened, it is moot. It’s like me asking if you still beat your wife.

I get it, I think.

So what you are saying is that though my children have been killed by your military, and my land has taken from me by your government, you never intended to take what belonged to someone else, nor did your government intend to kill my children. I see your point of view.

But this is what has happened in my view. I am not wrong, and nothing you can say will convince me I am wrong, for my family has owned this land for many generations, and your weapons have killed my children. But please, do not tell me I am wrong, this is not the point of what I have to say. The point of what I have to say is that I have been very angry and hurt. And though your government continues to do these things, which I see as “not repenting”, and continues to build settlements that I cannot live in, I forgive you Israelis for all of these things. I know longer hold it against your government or you if you support your governments actions.

So, in this wording, YKohen, I absolve you from intent to do harm. You have “beaten my wife”, but I am seeing that you did so for “good cause” from your point of view. Or did I completely miss what you are trying to say? Straighten me out here.

 

[chosen_people]

Hello Chosen people,

Aside from your sources being of newspaper quality, lacking the credentials of a Scholarly article, and some starting from Bias, I can testify that I met no shooting of Guns in Beit Jala, I found the Muslims in Bethlehem accommodating, and I no nothing of the “children of Deggendorf” reference until you sent the citation. It would appear to be a terrible massacre.

I could mention the way Palestinians are treated in Nabulus; I could mention this post ncronline.org/news/global/christians-nearly-absent-holy-land, then blame Israel for the decline in Catholic is in the whole of the holy land.

We could do this battle all day. Where does peace come in? I don’t want to fight you. I would like to personally distance myself from my former use of angry language. I wrote from rage and now I understand what I have said was wrong. God is love, Conflict is hate.

Pardon my youth,

Dan

The point of Deggendorf is not the massacre it’s what happened and what was done after the massacre

Yasser Arafat and the P.L.O virtually took over southern Lebanon in the mid 70’s. With Syrian backing, they carried out a campaign of murder, torture and rape against the Christian population. Fortunately for the Christians of south Lebanon, the Jewish State came to their rescue, driving out Yasser Arafat and the P.L.O. From a personal point of view, I did five reserve army tours, giving medical assistance and physical protection to the Christians of south Lebanon between 1982 - 1985.

Brigitte Gabriel, an Arab Lebanese Christian, is a survivor of this time. I have included a link to a short video where she describes some personal experiences:

youtube.com/watch?v=mn-yq6By82E

As a youth I often visited the town of Bethlehem. Under Israeli control, the town and its majority Christian population prospered. After being turned over to the Palestinian Authority in the framework of the Oslo peace accords, the Christians were persecuted and many left. Today they make up a small minority of the population of Bethlehem.

Neighboring Beit Jalla, made up of Christians, was used by Arafat as a base for shooting and sniping at Israelis, thus endangering the Christians living there (a tactic he used frequently in Lebanon - here again we see that the purpose of any “peace” agreement with Israel is to use any land gained as a base to attack Israel).

In security cases involving radical Moslem fundamentalists brought before me, the evidence frequently includes incidents of “excursions” by these same groups to places with relatively large Christian populations, like Nazareth, in attempts to torment Christians in various ways.

Less than a hundred meters from my courtroom window, stands a Russian Orthodox Church. My family fled the religious and political antisemitism of the Russian pogroms in the 19th Century. Today, four generations later, it is my job to help ensure that all people of all religions may freely worship and practice their religion. For the first time, under the rule of the Jewish State of Israel, all people have access to all their religious sites and all people may engage in their religious beliefs without fear.

That is not to say, that any of this will ever change those who have a deep dislike of the Jews. (see link)
jpost.com/Opinion/Op-EdCo…aspx?id=231998

However, no matter what, we Jews will keep on doing what we have been doing for more than three thousand years, sticking to our eternal covenant. In the end, love us or hate us, no matter what, we will always be a country of democratic and Jewish values.

 

[OneSheep]

Onesheep,

It appears I have written incorrectly as it seems I agree with you on all points of rebuttal. I would probably recount all my own points in that case.

Dan.

Every word we use has its own personal definition. With discussion, we hope to clarify as much as possible. The written language is even more difficult than the spoken language, because it is largely devoid of emotion, only the emotion we project upon it.

I am glad we are on the same page on this.

 

[danrooke]

Chosen People,

I didn’t know the atrocities you have mentioned. Thank you for your insight.

But the question remains. Do you think it is right to use these examples of horror to commit equal horrors? Such as that recently seen in Gaza at the end of last year.

A wrong does not permit a wrong. As Gaudi said “an eye for an eye leaves the world blind” and so true is that statement in this current conflict. There is an agenda of persecution against the Jews, the Christians and I know in Europe there is Persecution of Muslims as well.

The crimes of the few do not define the many.

I hope you may understand my weak words. I am clearly less experienced than you. Unless I’m incorrect, you work in Law yes? So you opinion is far more informed than my own. I think it wise to find the crimes on both sides of the wall, which is something I am learning rapidly. We want to resolve not accuse yes?

Dan.

 

[Ridgerunner]

. In fact, you should see how many mansions there are that Americans can only dream about.

Like this one, perhaps, built in the West Bank by a Palestinian billionaire?

google.com/search?q=munib+al+masri&hl=en&tbo=u&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&rlz=1I7ADFA_enUS486&tbm=isch&source=univ&sa=X&ei=WIIiUealNciWqQHElYDgBw&ved=0CDoQsAQ&biw=1024&bih=571#q=munib+al+masri&hl=en&sa=X&tbo=d&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&rlz=1I7ADFA_enUS486&tbm=isch&tbs=simg:CAQSEgkUczVctArE0CHhZCRDvqTGfA&iact=hc&vpx=2&vpy=127&dur=11059&hovh=183&hovw=275&tx=77&ty=259&sig=104041627922801651412&ei=X4IiUbaoHIKGqgGbjYCYCg&page=1&tbnh=133&tbnw=191&ved=1t:2220,r:0,s:0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&bvm=bv.42553238,d.aWM&fp=c129f6e3bedc4395&biw=1024&bih=571

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

danrooke,

Maybe you weren’t made to feel welcome at Ben Gurion Airport because your group was already going with preconceived notions and quentionable intentions.

Jews didn’t historically live here? Au contraire:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=10344487

Jews always lived here.

To quote your own Bible when the same accusations were made thousands of years ago:

1 Maccabees Chapter 15

[33] We have neither taken foreign land nor seized foreign property, but only the inheritance of our fathers, which at one time had been unjustly taken by our enemies.

[34] Now that we have the opportunity, we are firmly holding the inheritance of our fathers.

And it is most ironic that the only place in the entire Middle East where the Christian population is growing is in the Jewish state. Thgey are suffering everywhere else- including as Christians under PA and Hamas rule.

It’s a pity that you didn’t even attempt to visit the Jewish communities in Judea and Samaria. Why not? Was it intentional or simply an oversight?

Yes there have always been Jews living in Gaza however from when we have good data to until 1800 they were a trivial portion of the population almost entirely living in cities. Immigration started picking up from then until the assassination of Tsar Alexander III when it drastically picked up due to truly horrendous anti-Jewish riots.

1. These are Papal Bulls and other official Chuch documents that I am citing. With Papal infallability, you can’t possibly claim that they are “black moments” or the like and still be within Chuch teachings.
2. I provided a wide range of situations where there is no forgiveness without repentance. This was the issue.
3. These were not simply “seeking change”. MLK “sought change”.

We don’t.

“Palestine” doesn’t exist.They have chosen war and terror instead, but both the PA and Hamas do.

Incorrect. Again, Jews always lived here. We’re not “settlers”. We’re the indigenous people- who were ethnically cleansed from here by the Arabs in 1948 (1929 in Hebron, Gaza, and elsewhere).

Telling Jews where we can and cannot live, how we can and cannot live, is illegal.

And FYI: According to the Arabs’ “law”, it is a capital ofense to even SELL land to a Jew- i.e. death penalty.

We will not tolerate any of that- not here in OUR land.

You didn’t answer my question about trying to visit the Jewish communities here and speak with the Jews.

That isn’t what Papal Infallibility means, what it means is
http://www.stpeterslist.com/wp-cont...0_843539887358_21706405_45824793_33715_n.jpeg
If he says that was the best beer ever brewed it would just have meant he thought it was a very good beer.

1. Odd. For the 19 years when we were ethnically cleansed from here, the Arabs still vowed- and tried, to “throw the Jews into the sea”.
2. For territories to be occupied, they must be occupied from a STATE:

Convention (IV) relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War. Geneva, 12 August 1949

Article 2: …the present Convention shall apply to all cases of declared war or of any other armed conflict which may arise between two or more of the High Contracting Parties…"

icrc.org/ihl.nsf/7c4d08d9b287a42141256739003e636b/6756482d86146898c125641e004aa3c5?OpenDocument

“High Contracting Parties” mean STATES- not the PLO or some mythical place called “Palestine”, which was NEVER a state.

It seems that the UN has difficulty reading plain English.

1. The Arabs here do have adequate water, food, health services, and so on. In fact, you should see how many mansions there are that Americans can only dream about.

You seem to be forgetting that five times as many Jews immigrated to the region of Palestine since 1948 as were living there in 1947.

Like this one, perhaps, built in the West Bank by a Palestinian billionaire?

google.com/search?q=munib+al+masri&hl=en&tbo=u&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&rlz=1I7ADFA_enUS486&tbm=isch&source=univ&sa=X&ei=WIIiUealNciWqQHElYDgBw&ved=0CDoQsAQ&biw=1024&bih=571#q=munib+al+masri&hl=en&sa=X&tbo=d&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&rlz=1I7ADFA_enUS486&tbm=isch&tbs=simg:CAQSEgkUczVctArE0CHhZCRDvqTGfA&iact=hc&vpx=2&vpy=127&dur=11059&hovh=183&hovw=275&tx=77&ty=259&sig=104041627922801651412&ei=X4IiUbaoHIKGqgGbjYCYCg&page=1&tbnh=133&tbnw=191&ved=1t:2220,r:0,s:0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&bvm=bv.42553238,d.aWM&fp=c129f6e3bedc4395&biw=1024&bih=571

The richest Palestinian, a billionaire, spent a lot of money on a house for himself, quick alert the presses that a billionaire had a mansion built.

 

[YKohen]

… Peace is the FIRST goal here, justice comes afterwards.

If no conflict existed, the right environment for the historical arguments would make sense as the goal would then be to sort out the right a proper way to govern et cetera. Because people are dying, then you and I will only ever be justifying the conflict by using history.

Do you see? It’s not that Israel or Palestine should or shouldn’t exist. We are either condemning the conflict and trying to find ways to stop it, or justifying the conflict, trying to find ways to continue it.

What you don’t understand is that this conflict isn’t territorial. Were that the case, it would have ended long ago. This conflict is existential. For the Arabs, no Israel can exist within any boundaries. That is the point of this post of mine above. You have no answer to it because there is no answer to it.

I did not go to the Holy land on a visit, I did not go there hating Israel or wanting to hurt it, I went there to teach English to children in Beit Jala who didn’t know English. At the weekends we were able to travel as far as our means could take us, and that was the extent of my being there. No malice, no hate, and no preconceived notions except a basic understanding of what I may encounter. The Holy Land is beautiful and I hope to see more when i return in the summer. If you like I could see even try to visit you?

But you also admit that you went with preconceived notions. In terms of your means and time, I understand. But the distance from Beit Jala to Neve Daniel or Beitar Ilit is literally 5 minutes by car. Elazar and Efrat are 7 minutes away, Migdal Oz, Kfar Etzion, Alon Shuvt and the other area Jewish communities are 15 minutes away; all even closer than Jerusalem.

In fact, my guess is that you could have even met with Efrat’s Chief Rabbi, Shlomo Riskin, who is very much involved in Jewish-Christian dialogue AND Jewish-Arab dialogue (do an Internet search) to discuss issues with him.

In terms of visiting me, fantastic. I, like many Jews here, am also involved in Jewish-Christian dialogue- which is why I am on this forum as well.

In general though, to understand where we are coming from, re-read your Bible; especially the promises about G-d returning the nation of Israel to its land (Deut. 30, Ezekiel 36-37, etc.). We see this happeneing now- in front of our eyes.

Never in the history of man has a nation been exiled to the 4 corners of the earth, survived, and returned home.

It is no coincidence that we have. G-d promised us that this would happen.

 

[YKohen]

Jesus continues to provide the example to us Catholics that there is indeed forgiveness without repentance. Do not feel compelled to agree with this. This is our truth, but not yours. Its okay. Everyone, popes included, are capable of error.

“Infallibility” has a very limited application when it comes to statements put out by the papacy.

I understand the limitations of Papal infallibility. I looked it up to be clear:
It is only in connection with doctrinal authority as such that, practically speaking, this question of infallibility arises…

newadvent.org/cathen/07790a.htm

What I posted above definitely falls within this definition, and the Church hasn’t claimed otherwise, to the best of my knowledge.

I get it, I think.

No. You don’t get it. The only reason why ANYONE has been killed is because the ARABS have chosen war. We didn’t. They also took our land whenever they could. This is why every single Jew was ethnically cleansed from Judea, Samaria, and Gaza in 1948 (1929 in Hebron, etc.), and even when there were no Jews here,they still chose war.

That’s their choice.

 

[YKohen]

But the question remains. Do you think it is right to use these examples of horror to commit equal horrors? Such as that recently seen in Gaza at the end of last year.

There’s no moral equivalence here. The Arabs in Gaza shot thousands of missiles, specifically targetting Israeli civilians. And they use their own as human shields- proudly. We have a moral and legal right to stop it, and any resulting casualties are on the Arabs’ heads.

A wrong does not permit a wrong.

Of course, but self-defense isn’t wrong.

As Gaudi said “an eye for an eye leaves the world blind” and so true is that statement in this current conflict.

1. Was Ghandi Catholic? I wasn’t aware of that. Were his doctrines Catholic? I wasn’t aware of that either. His doctrines definitely were not Jewish, because for us, self-defense is a religious, moral, legal duty; a commandment (actually, numerous commandments).
2. It isn’t about an eye for an eye. It’s about preventing would-be murderers from carrying out their plans.
3. FYI: The Mahatma’s advice to the suffering Jews in Germany ten days after Kristalnacht of 9-10 November, 1938:

*If I were a Jew and were born in Germany and earned my livelihood there, I would claim Germany as my home even as the tallest gentile German may, and challenge him to shoot me or cast me in the dungeon; I would refuse to be expelled or to submit to discriminating treatment. And for doing this, I should not wait for the fellow Jews to join me in civil resistance but would have confidence that in the end the rest are bound to follow my example.

If one Jew or all the Jews were to accept the prescription here offered, he or they cannot be worse off than now. And suffering voluntarily undergone will bring them an inner strength and joy which no number of resolutions of sympathy passed in the world outside Germany can.

Indeed, even if Britain, France and America were to declare hostilities against Germany, they can bring no inner joy, no inner strength. The calculated violence of Hitler may even result in a general massacre of the Jews by way of his first answer to the declaration of such hostilities. But if the Jewish mind could be prepared for voluntary suffering, even the massacre I have imagined could be turned into a day of thanksgiving and joy that Jehovah had wrought deliverance of the race even at the hands of the tyrant.

For to the godfearing, death has no terror. It is a joyful sleep to be followed by a waking that would be all the more refreshing for the long sleep.*

He was a fool; an immoral fool.

 

[YKohen]

Like this one, perhaps, built in the West Bank by a Palestinian billionaire?

google.com/search?q=munib+al+masri&hl=en&tbo=u&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&rlz=1I7ADFA_enUS486&tbm=isch&source=univ&sa=X&ei=WIIiUealNciWqQHElYDgBw&ved=0CDoQsAQ&biw=1024&bih=571#q=munib+al+masri&hl=en&sa=X&tbo=d&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&rlz=1I7ADFA_enUS486&tbm=isch&tbs=simg:CAQSEgkUczVctArE0CHhZCRDvqTGfA&iact=hc&vpx=2&vpy=127&dur=11059&hovh=183&hovw=275&tx=77&ty=259&sig=104041627922801651412&ei=X4IiUbaoHIKGqgGbjYCYCg&page=1&tbnh=133&tbnw=191&ved=1t:2220,r:0,s:0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&bvm=bv.42553238,d.aWM&fp=c129f6e3bedc4395&biw=1024&bih=571

That, of course, is the paradigm, but it is far from the only case. danrooke can certainly tell us all about the huge, beautiful mansions in Beit Jala, and in fact,anyone who drives north or south of Jerusalem on Route 60 cannot help but notice the huge number of beautiful Arab mansions.

 

[YKohen]

…You seem to be forgetting that five times as many Jews immigrated to the region of Palestine since 1948 as were living there in 1947.

“The Arabs would have sat in the dark forever had not the Zionist engineers harnessed the Jordan river for electrification. Now they swarm into Palestine in seeking the light.”

• Winston Churchill, 1922 “A Peace to End All Peace”

This is why such last names as al-Masri (the Egyptian,), al-Djazair (the Algerian), el-Mughrabi (the Moroccan), al-Yamani (the Yemenite) and even al-Afghani are so common among those claiming to be “Palestinians.”

Hamas official reveals where “Palestinians” came from

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

**“The Arabs would have sat in the dark forever had not the Zionist engineers harnessed the Jordan river for electrification. Now they swarm into Palestine in seeking the light.”

• Winston Churchill, 1922 “A Peace to End All Peace”**

This is why such last names as al-Masri (the Egyptian,), al-Djazair (the Algerian), el-Mughrabi (the Moroccan), al-Yamani (the Yemenite) and even al-Afghani are so common among those claiming to be “Palestinians.”

Hamas official reveals where “Palestinians” came from

Ah Churchill, the man who said the Palestinians were “barbaric hoards who ate little but camel dung,”

Many Europeans had moved places too, they just didn’t keep their names

 

[YKohen]

Ah. Must be a “coincidence” that there were a grand total of 5000 Muslims in Jerusalem in 1844, and now there are more than 280,000.

Today’s Palestinians are immigrants from many nations: “Balkans, Greeks, Syrians, Latins, Egyptians, Turks, Armenians, Italians, Persians, Kurds, Germans, Afghans, Circassians, Bosnians, Sudaneese, Samaritans, Algerians, Motawila, Tartars, Hungarians, Scots, Navarese, Bretons, English, Franks, Ruthenians, Bohemians, Bulgarians, Georgians, Syrians, Persian Nestorians, Indians, Copts, Maronites, and many others.”
(DeHass, History, p. 258. John of Wurzburg list from Reinhold Rohricht edition, pp. 41, 69).

There are villages populated wholly by settlers from other portions of the Turkish Empire in the 19th century. There are villages of Bosnians, Circassians, and Egyptians.
-Parkes, James William, History of the Peoples of Palestine, Hammondsworth, Great Britain, 1970, p. 212.

There are very large contingents from the Mediterranean countries, especially Armenia, Greece, and Italy, Turkomen settlers, a fairly large Afghan colony, Motawila, immigrants from Persia, tribes of Kurds, a Bosnian colony, Circassian settlements, a large Algerian element, Sudanese…
-Encyclopedia Brittanica, 1911 ed.

[Ibrahim Pasha, the 1831 Egyptian conquerer of Palestine] "left behind him permanent colonies of Egyptians at Besian, Nablus, Irbid, Acre, and Jaffa. Into Jaffa alone, “at least 2,000 people have been imported.”
-Ernst Frankenstein, Justice For My People, London, Nicholson and Watson, 1943, p. 127.

In 1860, entire Algerian tribes immigrated en masse to Safed. The Muslims of Safed, are “mostly descended from these Moorish settlers and from Kurds that came earlier to the city.”
-De Haas, Jacob, History of Palestine, The Last Two Thousand Years, New York, 1934, p. 425.

“I learn of the arrival of about 6,000 of the Beni Sukhr Arabs at Tiberias who are very seldom seen this side of the Jordan.”
-British Consul James Finn in apers Relating to the Distubances in Syria, no. 2, June 1860, p. 35.

After 1870, “the [Turkish] forward policy included…the planting of Circassian colonies in the country.”
-Smith, CG in Studies on Palestine During the Ottoman Period, Jerusalem, 1975, p. 93.

“This illegal [Arab] immigration was not only going on from the Sinai, but also from Transjordan and Syria, and it is very difficult to make a case out for the misery of the Arabs if at the same time their compatriots from adjoining states could not be kept from going in to share that misery.”
-Palestine Royal Commission Report, London: 1937

“So far from being persecuted, the Arabs have crowded into the country and multiplied until their population has increased more than even all world Jewry could lift up the Jewish population.”
-Winston Churchill, 1939.

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

Ah. Must be a “coincidence” that there were a grand total of 5000 Muslims in Jerusalem in 1844, and now there are more than 280,000.

Today’s Palestinians are immigrants from many nations: “Balkans, Greeks, Syrians, Latins, Egyptians, Turks, Armenians, Italians, Persians, Kurds, Germans, Afghans, Circassians, Bosnians, Sudaneese, Samaritans, Algerians, Motawila, Tartars, Hungarians, Scots, Navarese, Bretons, English, Franks, Ruthenians, Bohemians, Bulgarians, Georgians, Syrians, Persian Nestorians, Indians, Copts, Maronites, and many others.”
(DeHass, History, p. 258. John of Wurzburg list from Reinhold Rohricht edition, pp. 41, 69).

There are villages populated wholly by settlers from other portions of the Turkish Empire in the 19th century. There are villages of Bosnians, Circassians, and Egyptians.
-Parkes, James William, History of the Peoples of Palestine, Hammondsworth, Great Britain, 1970, p. 212.

There are very large contingents from the Mediterranean countries, especially Armenia, Greece, and Italy, Turkomen settlers, a fairly large Afghan colony, Motawila, immigrants from Persia, tribes of Kurds, a Bosnian colony, Circassian settlements, a large Algerian element, Sudanese…
-Encyclopedia Brittanica, 1911 ed.

[Ibrahim Pasha, the 1831 Egyptian conquerer of Palestine] "left behind him permanent colonies of Egyptians at Besian, Nablus, Irbid, Acre, and Jaffa. Into Jaffa alone, “at least 2,000 people have been imported.”
-Ernst Frankenstein, Justice For My People, London, Nicholson and Watson, 1943, p. 127.

In 1860, entire Algerian tribes immigrated en masse to Safed. The Muslims of Safed, are “mostly descended from these Moorish settlers and from Kurds that came earlier to the city.”
-De Haas, Jacob, History of Palestine, The Last Two Thousand Years, New York, 1934, p. 425.

“I learn of the arrival of about 6,000 of the Beni Sukhr Arabs at Tiberias who are very seldom seen this side of the Jordan.”
-British Consul James Finn in apers Relating to the Distubances in Syria, no. 2, June 1860, p. 35.

After 1870, “the [Turkish] forward policy included…the planting of Circassian colonies in the country.”
-Smith, CG in Studies on Palestine During the Ottoman Period, Jerusalem, 1975, p. 93.

“This illegal [Arab] immigration was not only going on from the Sinai, but also from Transjordan and Syria, and it is very difficult to make a case out for the misery of the Arabs if at the same time their compatriots from adjoining states could not be kept from going in to share that misery.”
-Palestine Royal Commission Report, London: 1937

“So far from being persecuted, the Arabs have crowded into the country and multiplied until their population has increased more than even all world Jewry could lift up the Jewish population.”
-Winston Churchill, 1939.

As I was working through your post I found that everything except “Ah. Must be a “coincidence” that there were a grand total of 5000 Muslims in Jerusalem in 1844, and now there are more than 280,000.” was copied from here, how intellectually sloppy.

 

[YKohen]

As I was working through your post I found that everything except “Ah. Must be a “coincidence” that there were a grand total of 5000 Muslims in Jerusalem in 1844, and now there are more than 280,000.” was copied from here, how intellectually sloppy.

Actually, it wasn’t sourced from there. I don’t source from talkbacks. It came from Ernst-Gustav Schultz, the Prussian consul at the time.

archive.org/stream/jerusalemeinevo00schugoog#page/n20/mode/2up

It’s sloppy on your part to make such assumptions.

And Titus Tobler, the Swiss explorer, stated that there were around 6000 Muslims total in Jerusalem just a few years later.

books.google.co.il/books?id=ylwbAAAAMAAJ&redir_esc=y

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

Actually, it wasn’t sourced from there. I don’t source from talkbacks. It came from Ernst-Gustav Schultz, the Prussian consul at the time.

archive.org/stream/jerusalemeinevo00schugoog#page/n20/mode/2up

It’s sloppy on your part to make such assumptions.

And Titus Tobler, the Swiss explorer, stated that there were around 6000 Muslims total in Jerusalem just a few years later.

books.google.co.il/books?id=ylwbAAAAMAAJ&redir_esc=y

I said and I quote

As I was working through your post I found that everything except “Ah. Must be a “coincidence” that there were a grand total of 5000 Muslims in Jerusalem in 1844, and now there are more than 280,000.” was copied from here, how intellectually sloppy.

Let’s compare stuff from my link and what you have written

“The Arabs would have sat in the dark forever had not the Zionist engineers harnessed the Jordan river for electrification. Now they swarm into Palestine in seeking the light.”

• Winston Churchill, 1922 “A Peace to End All Peace”

This is why such last names as al-Masri (the Egyptian,), al-Djazair (the Algerian), el-Mughrabi (the Moroccan), al-Yamani (the Yemenite) and even al-Afghani are so common among those claiming to be “Palestinians.”

Hamas official reveals where “Palestinians” came from

My link that I allege you copied from

“The Arabs would have sat in the dark forever had not the Zionist engineers harnessed the Jordan river for electrification. Now they swarm into Palestine in seeking the light.”

• Winston Churchill, 1922 “A Peace to End All Peace”

and

How odd that such last names as al-Masri (the Egyptian,), al-Djazair (the Algerian), el-Mughrabi (the Moroccan), al-Yamani (the Yemenite) and even al-Afghani are so common among those claiming to be “Palestinians.”

continued…

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

…resumed
Another incident

Ah. Must be a “coincidence” that there were a grand total of 5000 Muslims in Jerusalem in 1844, and now there are more than 280,000.

Today’s Palestinians are immigrants from many nations: “Balkans, Greeks, Syrians, Latins, Egyptians, Turks, Armenians, Italians, Persians, Kurds, Germans, Afghans, Circassians, Bosnians, Sudaneese, Samaritans, Algerians, Motawila, Tartars, Hungarians, Scots, Navarese, Bretons, English, Franks, Ruthenians, Bohemians, Bulgarians, Georgians, Syrians, Persian Nestorians, Indians, Copts, Maronites, and many others.”
(DeHass, History, p. 258. John of Wurzburg list from Reinhold Rohricht edition, pp. 41, 69).

There are villages populated wholly by settlers from other portions of the Turkish Empire in the 19th century. There are villages of Bosnians, Circassians, and Egyptians.
-Parkes, James William, History of the Peoples of Palestine, Hammondsworth, Great Britain, 1970, p. 212.

There are very large contingents from the Mediterranean countries, especially Armenia, Greece, and Italy, Turkomen settlers, a fairly large Afghan colony, Motawila, immigrants from Persia, tribes of Kurds, a Bosnian colony, Circassian settlements, a large Algerian element, Sudanese…
-Encyclopedia Brittanica, 1911 ed.

[Ibrahim Pasha, the 1831 Egyptian conquerer of Palestine] "left behind him permanent colonies of Egyptians at Besian, Nablus, Irbid, Acre, and Jaffa. Into Jaffa alone, “at least 2,000 people have been imported.”
-Ernst Frankenstein, Justice For My People, London, Nicholson and Watson, 1943, p. 127.

In 1860, entire Algerian tribes immigrated en masse to Safed. The Muslims of Safed, are “mostly descended from these Moorish settlers and from Kurds that came earlier to the city.”
-De Haas, Jacob, History of Palestine, The Last Two Thousand Years, New York, 1934, p. 425.

“I learn of the arrival of about 6,000 of the Beni Sukhr Arabs at Tiberias who are very seldom seen this side of the Jordan.”
-British Consul James Finn in apers Relating to the Distubances in Syria, no. 2, June 1860, p. 35.

After 1870, “the [Turkish] forward policy included…the planting of Circassian colonies in the country.”
-Smith, CG in Studies on Palestine During the Ottoman Period, Jerusalem, 1975, p. 93.

“This illegal [Arab] immigration was not only going on from the Sinai, but also from Transjordan and Syria, and it is very difficult to make a case out for the misery of the Arabs if at the same time their compatriots from adjoining states could not be kept from going in to share that misery.”
-Palestine Royal Commission Report, London: 1937

“So far from being persecuted, the Arabs have crowded into the country and multiplied until their population has increased more than even all world Jewry could lift up the Jewish population.”
-Winston Churchill, 1939.

My link that I allege you copied from

Today’s Palestinians are immigrants from many nations: “Balkans, Greeks, Syrians, Latins, Egyptians, Turks, Armenians, Italians, Persians, Kurds, Germans, Afghans, Circassians, Bosnians, Sudaneese, Samaritans, Algerians, Motawila, Tartars, Hungarians, Scots, Navarese, Bretons, English, Franks, Ruthenians, Bohemians, Bulgarians, Georgians, Syrians, Persian Nestorians, Indians, Copts, Maronites, and many others.” (DeHass, History, p. 258. John of Wurzburg list from Reinhold Rohricht edition, pp. 41, 69).

There are villages populated wholly by settlers from other portions of the Turkish Empire in the 19th century. There are villages of Bosnians, Circassians, and Egyptians. -Parkes, James William, History of the Peoples of Palestine, Hammondsworth, Great Britain, 1970, p. 212.

There are very large contingents from the Mediterranean countries, especially Armenia, Greece, and Italy, Turkomen settlers, a fairly large Afghan colony, Motawila, immigrants from Persia, tribes of Kurds, a Bosnian colony, Circassian settlements, a large Algerian element, Sudanese… -Encyclopedia Brittanica, 1911 ed.

[Ibrahim Pasha, the 1831 Egyptian conquerer of Palestine] "left behind him permanent colonies of Egyptians at Besian, Nablus, Irbid, Acre, and Jaffa. Into Jaffa alone, “at least 2,000 people have been imported.” -Ernst Frankenstein, Justice For My People, London, Nicholson and Watson, 1943, p. 127.

In 1860, entire Algerian tribes immigrated en masse to Safed. The Muslims of Safed, are “mostly descended from these Moorish settlers and from Kurds that came earlier to the city.”
-De Haas, Jacob, History of Palestine, The Last Two Thousand Years, New York, 1934, p. 425.

“I learn of the arrival of about 6,000 of the Beni Sukhr Arabs at Tiberias who are very seldom seen this side of the Jordan.”
-British Consul James Finn in apers Relating to the Distubances in Syria, no. 2, June 1860, p. 35.

After 1870, “the [Turkish] forward policy included…the planting of Circassian colonies in the country.”
-Smith, CG in Studies on Palestine During the Ottoman Period, Jerusalem, 1975, p. 93.
…
“So far from being persecuted, the Arabs have crowded into the country and multiplied until their population has increased more than even all world Jewry could lift up the Jewish population.”
-Winston Churchill, 1939.

Identical to the typographical error…

 

[YKohen]

I said and I quote

Let’s compare stuff from my link and what you have written

My link that I allege you copied from

and

She must have gotten it from me. I have been posting talkbacks for 12 years- long before most people- and long before she posted that talkback. I have been quoted many times in my posts- sometimes verbatim, and an Internet search might even turn up exact posts of mine from before then. Hers was only 2 years ago.

Edit: Here is one example, for instance, from 2007- long begfore her talkback:

livefromoccupiedpalestine.blogspot.co.il/2007/11/what-lies-beyond-annapolis-and.html

In any case, I provided you with sources. Enjoy!