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Scott_Lafrance
Guest
These people in Afganistan don’t need a reason to commit violence. Just an excuse, and any excuse will do.
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Cristiano
Guest
Catholics cannot separate blame for evil from sin! Morality comes from God through natural law. Sin is about rejecting God an his laws. Blaming someone for something means holding someone morally accountable. This is only about sin.I’m not sure anyone is talking about sin here. I thought we were talking about blame for violence?
Now, do I need to drown a puppy or am I gonna see some retractions?
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Scott_Lafrance
Guest
If you drown a puppy, 13 pygmy rhinos in Indonesia will be shot with tranquilizer guns.I’m not sure anyone is talking about sin here. I thought we were talking about blame for violence?
Now, do I need to drown a puppy or am I gonna see some retractions?
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estesbob
Guest
What this Pastor did was vile and despicable and he will indeed have to answer to God for what he did. However the deaths in Afghanistan are the fault of those who did the killing. We can not excuse their behavior because of the actions of one kook in Fla.
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Cristiano
Guest
At this point I could care less about 13 pygmy rhinos because I have reached the limit with my puppy that chews on me and everything else. Right now I would probably use a tranquilizer gun on my own puppy and get him to be quiet for 24 hours.If you drown a puppy, 13 pygmy rhinos in Indonesia will be shot with tranquilizer guns.
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iamrefreshed
Guest
And the rioters committed a mortal one!
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Prodigal_Son1
Guest
I don’t see any distinguishing between all the people of Afghanistan. Do you believe all the people of Afghanistan, or the people of the Islamic faith, are all violent people?
People seem to be arguing for a man not to be held accountable for his actions, when he knew his actions could possibly have a violent outcome. Now he calling for all the people of the Islamic faith to be held accountable for the actions of those who committed the murders against innocent people, while planning more offensive acts against their faith. Can people really not see the bigotry in this pastor’s words and actions?
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Scott_Lafrance
Guest
Apparently, you can do anything in the name of Allah and it is not a sin, as long as you do it in the name of Allah.
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Scott_Lafrance
Guest
Can you really call it bigotry if this pastor believes that Islam is an anti-christian religion and that the Koran is an anti-christian book? Therefore, based on this belief, burning the Koran is not just acceptable, it is a moral imperitive to fight against the enemies of Christ.
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jilly4ski
Guest
No one said the pastor wasn’t bigoted. But your argument is not applied to other areas of life. Pro-abortion supporters claim pro-lifers are violent all the time, so even though they have “foreknowledge” of violence they continue to procure and support a legal action, abortions. So was it Tiller’s fault he was killed? That is even a more direct link since he actually preformed abortions. This pastor engaged in a legal exercise of free speech, therefore he should not be held legally responsible for anything. He will be accountable socially (ostracized) and morally (Judgment), but is not and should not be held accountable legally.
Maybe this is a hypothetical some can relate to. Lets say that every time the Eucharist was desecrated, Catholics in Northern Ireland set off bombs or killed Protestants in Norther Ireland. Does that mean that the US should make desecration of the Eucharist a crime?
I still want to know if he actually burned a Koran or just a translation. I also find it kind of ironic that the people who actually incited the riots, kind of proved the pastor’s point.
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Prodigal_Son1
Guest
Using that logic, can we call Klan, or Nazi, members bigots? They truly believe in the supremacy of their race, with certain Klan members asserting segregation as Biblical and their Christian right.
Where does Christ command His followers to fight against His enemies? I thought He taught to love your enemies and that He prayed for His persecutors…
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mdrummer5
Guest
The issue with this and all of your irrelevant (though slightly amusing) anaglogies is that Terry Jones knew FULL WELL that his actions would illicit a response and could have reasonably assumed that it could be a violent one.
In fact it’s not unreasonable to think that he could have done it HOPING for a violent reaction so that he could say “See they’re the bad guys”.
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Prodigal_Son1
Guest
I haven’t said what the pastor did was a crime or that he should be prosecuted. I don’t see it as a Christian action, just as desecrating the Eucharist would not be. It was a provocation, with fore knowledge of a possible violent outcome against innocent people. It seems many are rushing to defend his actions without distinguishing between peaceful Islamic people and fanatics. The man knowingly provoked violence. Where is that taught in Christian values?
Is our ‘Bible’ not legitimate if it’s a translation?
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salusanimarum17
Guest
I want to know if the rioting murderers will riot against those who blow up mosques during prayers…chances are good that a Koran or two, in the original language, will have been burned.
It’s not that I think the “pastor” did a good thing. He didn’t. His action, though, is not even comparable to the murder of unrelated, innocent people and I cannot see a logical connection between the two events. If the “pastor” were to be killed, it would still be a grave crime but I could at least begin to see a logical connection. In either case, if the topic is murders that took place “in protest over” a Koran being burned, I’ll tend to focus on the murders/murderers.
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Cristiano
Guest
I completely agree with you. Probably also the pastor committed what I would call a mortal sin, but that is not the murder of the individuals.
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Publisher
Guest
We are our brother’s keeper…this “pastor” has blood on his hands…
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mdrummer5
Guest
While I see your point, and I completely agree that his actions do not justify the murder of someone else it still raises questions about his morality. While I do not believe most muslims are the extremists that we’re talking about it is known that they react to things with violence so it’s quite reasonable that he knew or at least could have assumed that his actions would have illicited violence… so why did he do it?
Consider the movie “The Box” I never saw it but the general premise is if you open the box you get a million dollars but as a result someone who you don’t know will be killed… do you open the box? Of course not… normal, logical and moral thinking people wouldn’t… just like we wouldn’t burn a copy of the Koran. So while the killing of someone else in reaction to the burning isn’t logical or moral neither is his choice to do so knowing that it could happen.
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Very well said!
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Scott_Lafrance
Guest
Love includes not tolerating a lie. There is no part of love that allows for murderous zealotry.
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LemonAndLime
Guest
I agree, I believe what this pastor did would be considered a sin as he burnt the Quran with full knowledge that in doing so it would lead to angry protests. He knew what happened after someone had drawn a cartoon of Muhammed and someone else claimed to have flushed the book down the toilet.
I also believe he has blood on his hands and should be accountable for the protests. Would the protests have happened if he did not burn the Quran and never suggested people should? No, they would not of happened, so he is to blame for them. Simple logic.
Of course you can argue that some Muslims would have found a reason to protest against something else if Jones didn’t do what he was meant to do, but that is purely conjecture and doesn’t prove anything.
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iamrefreshed
Guest
Maybe you can convince your brothers that beheading someone not even remotely connected to the pastor is a bad idea?
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