UN staff killed in Afghan protest over Quran burning in US

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LemonAndLime said:
I agree, I believe what this pastor did would be considered a sin as he burnt the Quran with full knowledge that in doing so it would lead to angry protests. He knew what happened after someone had drawn a cartoon of Muhammed and someone else claimed to have flushed the book down the toilet.

I also believe he has blood on his hands and should be accountable for the protests. Would the protests have happened if he did not burn the Quran and never suggested people should? No, they would not of happened, so he is to blame for them. Simple logic.

Of course you can argue that some Muslims would have found a reason to protest against something else if Jones didn’t do what he was meant to do, but that is purely conjecture and doesn’t prove anything.
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Here in the US he has committed no crime and is accountable for nothing.

Now I’m off to drown some puppies. You were all warned that I would do this so you are to blame!😃
 
iamrefreshed said:
Maybe you can convince your brothers that beheading someone not even remotely connected to the pastor is a bad idea?
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No no no no! What they did is perfectly okay and understandable. However, drawing a cartoon of Muhamed or burning the Koran…this guy should be dunked head first into a tank full of hungry bull sharks.
 
Scott_Lafrance said:
Love includes not tolerating a lie. There is no part of love that allows for murderous zealotry.
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Did Jesus tolerate lies when He openly prayed for the Father to forgive those who persecuted Him? Where does Christ teach us to utilize violence, or inspire violence in others, to achieve a goal for Him?

You didn’t answer a question I asked you. Do you think that all Afghanistan, or Islamic, people are all violent people? I still fail to see any distinguishing between peaceful Islamic people and fanatics.
 
Scott_Lafrance said:
Love includes not tolerating a lie. There is no part of love that allows for murderous zealotry.
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This is true… however there is no denying that this “man of God” knew that his actions could result in violence, that’s why he was urged not to do it the year prior… so while he did nothing illegal it was most certainly immoral.
 
Prodigal_Son1 said:
Did Jesus tolerate lies when He openly prayed for the Father to forgive those who persecuted Him? Where does Christ teach us to utilize violence, or inspire violence in others, to achieve a goal for Him?

You didn’t answer a question I asked you. Do you think that all Afghanistan, or Islamic, people are all violent people? I still fail to see any distinguishing between peaceful Islamic people and fanatics.
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I believe that there is a statistically significant portion of the Muslim population that believes that murdering people in cold blood, because someone half way across the world did something that you don’t like, is perfectly acceptable.
 
Scott_Lafrance said:
No no no no! What they did is perfectly okay and understandable. However, drawing a cartoon of Muhamed or burning the Koran…this guy should be dunked head first into a tank full of hungry bull sharks.
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It seems one of the differences in this argument, besides the lack of some of us finding it a humorous subject, is that no one, finding that some of the responsibility is shared by the pastor, is also condoning what the ‘fanatical’ Muslims did. That appears to be spin being thrown in for some reason. 🤷
 
Prodigal_Son1 said:
You didn’t answer a question I asked you. Do you think that all Afghanistan, or Islamic, people are all violent people? I still fail to see any distinguishing between peaceful Islamic people and fanatics.
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Rioting happened in a “peaceful village”.

This wasn’t some fringe group. These were everyday regular folk.
 
mdrummer5 said:
This is true… however there is no denying that this “man of God” knew that his actions could result in violence, that’s why he was urged not to do it the year prior… so while he did nothing illegal it was most certainly immoral.
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It was unwise, but I am not sure that it makes in immoral. To not do something because it “might” cause a reaction is called scrupilosity.
 
iamrefreshed said:
Here in the US he has committed no crime and is accountable for nothing.
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Since when did I claim he was accountable for something under an earthly law? I’m not very knowledgeable about what constitutes a sin, but what he did was very un-Christian and I’m not sure his actions are approved of by Heaven.

In the UK he would have been charged with inciting racial/religious hatred. In fact I believe Jones has been banned from entering the UK on those grounds.

I am in favour for these inciting hatred laws. There’s saying you don’t agree with a religion, and then there’s knowingly insulting it with the knowledge that it would lead to violence. One deserves punishment, the other doesn’t. You have to be really bad to be prosecuted under our inciting hatred laws, I think our government has a right to stop people like Jones from doing something which would threaten the safety of others as he’s too much of an idiot to police his own behaviour.
 
Prodigal_Son1 said:
Is our ‘Bible’ not legitimate if it’s a translation?
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This is particular to the Islamic faith. They don’t view the Koran as we view the Bible. It is more like the way we Catholics view the Eucharist (maybe). (Our Eucharist is God incarnate, Protestant’s communion is just bread). The Koran written in Arabic is God’s actual words as spoken to Mohammad, but it translated is not holy, because those were not the words used by God. To a Muslim, the Koran is only complete or legitimate(?) word of God if it is in Arabic. Written in Arabic, the Koran is not to have other things placed on top of it and a number of other requirements. I am sorry if I am not explaining it very well, but it is a particular belief of Muslims.
 
LemonAndLime said:
Since when did I claim he was accountable for something under an earthly law? I’m not very knowledgeable about what constitutes a sin, but what he did was very un-Christian and I’m not sure his actions are approved of by Heaven.

In the UK he would have been charged with inciting racial/religious hatred. In fact I believe Jones has been banned from entering the UK on those grounds.

I am in favour for these inciting hatred laws. There’s saying you don’t agree with a religion, and then there’s knowingly insulting it with the knowledge that it would lead to violence. One deserves punishment, the other doesn’t. You have to be really bad to be prosecuted under our inciting hatred laws, I think our government has a right to stop people like Jones from doing something which would threaten the safety of others as he’s too much of an idiot to police his own behaviour.
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You said he should be held accountable for the protests (riots). I can only assume you meant earthly since we can never know what God knows.

In the UK, could he be charged even though everything happened in Afghanistan?
 
Scott_Lafrance said:
It was unwise, but I am not sure that it makes in immoral. To not do something because it “might” cause a reaction is called scrupilosity.
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Is it?

Considering that you also said…
I believe that there is a statistically significant portion of the Muslim population that believes that murdering people in cold blood, because someone half way across the world did something that you don’t like, is perfectly acceptable.
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Would you not think that a violent reaction would be a reasonable assumption therefore making it a bad idea?
 
mdrummer5 said:
Is it?

Considering that you also said…

Would you not think that a violent reaction would be a reasonable assumption therefore making it a bad idea?
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I am not in the habit of restraining the exercise of my God given liberty because SOMEONE I don’t know MIGHT do something bad. If taht were the case, we should all just lock ourselves in the house and wait to die, or, do what the murderous thugs want us to do, convert to Islam. That would solve it all. We should all just convert to Islam, then they wouldn’t go around slicing people’s heads off anymore. Problem solved.
 
iamrefreshed said:
You said he should be held accountable for the protests (riots). I can only assume you meant earthly since we can never know what God knows.

In the UK, could he be charged even though everything happened in Afghanistan?
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Well I hope you’re happy! We have massive riots here in the mountains. Seems someone has been drowning puppies!
 
The de-facto government of the United States could pass laws against burning or desecrating the Koran tomorrow and it wouldn’t satisfy Islamic radicals. They’d still want the offenders beheaded as some suggested be done to Pope Benedict a couple years ago.
Koran burning is protected under the 1st Amendment, live with it, just as we Christians live with a steady diet of blasphemy in our culture. And for those who believe that offending Muslims is more serious than offending Christians because of how they may respond, by all means, please emigrate to Saudi Arabia.
 
iamrefreshed said:
You said he should be held accountable for the protests (riots). I can only assume you meant earthly since we can never know what God knows.

In the UK, could he be charged even though everything happened in Afghanistan?
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Accountable, yes. Legally accused, no. I do not think Jones should ever be charged with the murders, but I believe he does have responsibility for what happened as he was the primary cause, you could say.

In the UK he would not be punished for causing the riots in Afghanistan. He would be punished for inciting/committing racial/religious hatred by burning a holy book with the intent of insulting Islam. Some people actually did do this in the UK -
The Telegraph newspaper:
Officers detained two men on September 15 and four more yesterday and all six were bailed pending further inquiries, Northumbria Police said.
‘‘The arrests followed the burning of what are believed to have been two Korans in Gateshead on September 11,’’ the spokesman said.
‘‘The incident was recorded and a video placed on the internet.’’
In a video still accessible on YouTube, six young men in hooded tops or wearing scarves over their faces can be seen pouring petrol on a book and setting it alight, before burning another.
On the video, which appeared to have been filmed behind a pub, they cheer as the first book bursts into flames.
Northumbria Police said the men were not arrested for watching or distributing the video, but on suspicion of burning the Koran.
Gateshead Council and the force issued a joint statement to stress that community relations in the area were good.
It said: ''The kind of behaviour displayed in this video is not at all representative of our community as a whole.
‘‘Our community is one of mutual respect and we continue to work together with community leaders, residents and people of all faiths and beliefs to maintain good community relations.’’
The men may have been copying Florida-based Pastor Terry Jones, who caused an international outcry by threatening to burn the holy book on September 11, although he did not go ahead with the plan.
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telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/8020296/Six-arrested-in-Gateshead-over-Koran-burning.html

Not sure if they were ever charged, but it was certainly enough to arrest them.
 
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