Understanding Islamic Views

[swariffin]

They’re on the forum, they just don’t want to answer truthfully to the questions you’ve asked. Could and angel of God spew such hate?

Or they are still looking for a good answer for your question. Please give them some time, brother.

 

[swariffin]

Think of the Qur’an as the map to guide us through the journey of life and think of the Sunnah of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) as the accompanying legend by which to correctly read this map.

Therefore, reading the Qur’an alone will not be enough to truly understand the Message of Islam because you will also need to refer to the Sunnah in order to not misinterpret the Qur’an.

To remedy this situation, I would suggest that you read this very comprehensive crash course on the major teachings of the Sunnah.

By properly learning this very well-known collection of ahadith, I would dare say that your level of understanding of the true teachings of Islam would, God-willing, be higher than that of most Muslims in the world.

The problem is the destination which supposed to be the final journey is placed on the wrong place and direction, brother.

 

[elwill]

*The context for Ayat 7 of Surah 1 is Ayat 6 which says: “Guide us to the Straight Way” and the context of Ayat 6 is the Surah of which it is a part.

Furthermore, the explanation as to who those who earned Allah’s Anger were was given by the Prophet(pbuh) himself, same with regard to those who have gone astray. I also provided the Hadith namely quoted by At-Tirmidhi and Abu Dawood.

As you know Surahs 2 and 3 are rich in attacks on Jews and Christians but I am not concerned with that. I chose Surah 1 because there is less room for contention.

Karen Armstrong in her book “ISLAM a Short History”, says that the Prophet loved Jews and Christians and draws our attention to Surah 29:46 but this does not interest me because of abrogations. Let us just stick to Surah 1. If you cannot justify Ayat 7 of Surah 1 just say so and let us move on; no hard feelings. *

hi Cinette
for your information , this surah no#1 which you insist to focus in , ( the whole chapter ) havn’t any words concerning christians nor jews , i think you should to cite what was mentioned in saurah 2 or 3 if you want to proof something

but insisting in talking about surah # 1 which never mentioned nor christians nor jews then said that this surah encourage hatness to jews and christians is just a mess

 

[cathdoki]

Good news. I’ve converted!

 

[cathdoki]

Or they are still looking for a good answer for your question. Please give them some time, brother.

It’s been 3 days.

They will not answer. They are incapable of defending their religion truthfully. The CC considers it to be heretical and they know it. They have nothing to stand on, but deceit.

Not a single muslim, shia, sunni, ahmadi, or the dozens of other sects will answer. They know they cannot defend themselves against reason.

God bless!

 

[cathdoki]

“Quran is the verbatim speech of Allah”, because Muhammad said so.
How do you know Muhammad is saying the truth? > Quran said so.
How do you know that Quran is the truth? > Muhammad said so.
How do you know Muhammad is true? Quran said so.
You can repeat the point again and again till end of the world anyway.

That’s correct. Mohammad could say ANYTHING he wants. Nobody was there to deny his heresies. He was a power hungry maniac. Taught murder, hate, jealousy, slavery, it’s all very clear. You only have to read the koran. You’ll see that today he would be on lexapro.

 

[jakasaki]

Good news. I’ve converted!

converted to what…???

 

[cathdoki]

converted to what…???

I’m not sure yet

 

[jakasaki]

hi Cinette
for your information , this surah no#1 which you insist to focus in , ( the whole chapter ) havn’t any words concerning christians nor jews , i think you should to cite what was mentioned in saurah 2 or 3 if you want to proof something

but insisting in talking about surah # 1 which never mentioned nor christians nor jews then said that this surah encourage hatness to jews and christians is just a mess

Elwill - I was checking the validity of this and it does mention in the tafsir that it is the Jews & Christians…

Sura 1 verse #7

the path of those whom You have favoured, with guidance (from alladhīna together with its relative clause is substituted by [ghayri l-maghdūbi ‘alayhim]) **not **[the path] **of those against whom there is wrath, namely, the Jews, and nor of those who are astray, namely, the Christians. **

**The subtle meaning implied by this substitution is that the guided ones are neither the Jews nor the Christians. **

But God knows best what is right, and to Him is the Return and the [final] Resort.

May God bless our lord Muhammad (s), his Family and Companions and grant them everlasting peace. Sufficient is God for us; an excellent Guardian is He.

There is no power and no strength save in God, the High, the Tremendous.

altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMadhNo=0&tTafsirNo=74&tSoraNo=1&tAyahNo=7&tDisplay=yes&UserProfile=0&LanguageId=2

(The path of those whom Thou hast favoured), the Religion of those whom You have blessed with the Religion and who are the followers of Moses, before the blessings of Allah deserted them, in that He shaded them with a white cloud and sent down on them honey and quails when they were in the wilderness.

**It is also said that (the path of those whom Thou hast favoured) refers to the prophets. (Not of those who earn Thine anger), not the religion of the Jews who earned Your anger, whom You forsook and whose hearts You did not protect until they became complaisant.

(Nor of those who go astray), nor the religion of the Christians who erred from Islam. **

Amen: thus shall be its custodians; it is also said that Amen means let it be so. It is also said that it means: O our Lord! Do with us as we have requested You.

And Allah knows best’.

altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMadhNo=2&tTafsirNo=73&tSoraNo=1&tAyahNo=7&tDisplay=yes&UserProfile=0&LanguageId=2

 

[cathdoki]

Elwill - I was checking the validity of this and it does mention in the tafsir that it is the Jews & Christians…

Sura 1 verse #7

the path of those whom You have favoured, with guidance (from alladhīna together with its relative clause is substituted by [ghayri l-maghdūbi ‘alayhim]) **not **[the path] **of those against whom there is wrath, namely, the Jews, and nor of those who are astray, namely, the Christians. **

**The subtle meaning implied by this substitution is that the guided ones are neither the Jews nor the Christians. **

But God knows best what is right, and to Him is the Return and the [final] Resort.

May God bless our lord Muhammad (s), his Family and Companions and grant them everlasting peace. Sufficient is God for us; an excellent Guardian is He.

There is no power and no strength save in God, the High, the Tremendous.

altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMadhNo=0&tTafsirNo=74&tSoraNo=1&tAyahNo=7&tDisplay=yes&UserProfile=0&LanguageId=2

(The path of those whom Thou hast favoured), the Religion of those whom You have blessed with the Religion and who are the followers of Moses, before the blessings of Allah deserted them, in that He shaded them with a white cloud and sent down on them honey and quails when they were in the wilderness.

**It is also said that (the path of those whom Thou hast favoured) refers to the prophets. (Not of those who earn Thine anger), not the religion of the Jews who earned Your anger, whom You forsook and whose hearts You did not protect until they became complaisant.

(Nor of those who go astray), nor the religion of the Christians who erred from Islam. **

Amen: thus shall be its custodians; it is also said that Amen means let it be so. It is also said that it means: O our Lord! Do with us as we have requested You.

And Allah knows best’.

altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMadhNo=2&tTafsirNo=73&tSoraNo=1&tAyahNo=7&tDisplay=yes&UserProfile=0&LanguageId=2

OMGOSH!!! Does elwill not know his book of lies? Wow, good job Jakasaki. BTW…the converted bit was in a moment of despair. I was thinking of becoming a voodoo witch doctor in Saudi Arabia. Then I realized, there is no beer in Saudi Arabia. Mohammad said it was BAD BAD BAD! So, I’m still working on what to convert to. Any suggestions?

 

[sedonaman]

“Quran is the verbatim speech of Allah”, because Muhammad said so.
How do you know Muhammad is saying the truth? > Quran said so.
How do you know that Quran is the truth? > Muhammad said so.
How do you know Muhammad is true? Quran said so.
You can repeat the point again and again till end of the world anyway.

A good summary of the circular reasoning.

 

[jakasaki]

OMGOSH!!! Does elwill not know his book of lies? Wow, good job Jakasaki. BTW…the converted bit was in a moment of despair. I was thinking of becoming a voodoo witch doctor in Saudi Arabia. Then I realized, there is no beer in Saudi Arabia. Mohammad said it was BAD BAD BAD! So, I’m still working on what to convert to. Any suggestions?

I’d stay away from Saudi & the voodoo which doctor deal, they recently executed a woman whom the local people claimed that she placed evil spells on them…

No conversions my dear… remain Catholic…!!

Anyway, back to the topic of the thread…

 

[Cinette]

Elwill - I was checking the validity of this and it does mention in the tafsir that it is the Jews & Christians…

Sura 1 verse #7

the path of those whom You have favoured, with guidance (from alladhīna together with its relative clause is substituted by [ghayri l-maghdūbi ‘alayhim]) **not **[the path] **of those against whom there is wrath, namely, the Jews, and nor of those who are astray, namely, the Christians. **

**The subtle meaning implied by this substitution is that the guided ones are neither the Jews nor the Christians. **

But God knows best what is right, and to Him is the Return and the [final] Resort.

May God bless our lord Muhammad (s), his Family and Companions and grant them everlasting peace. Sufficient is God for us; an excellent Guardian is He.

There is no power and no strength save in God, the High, the Tremendous.

altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMadhNo=0&tTafsirNo=74&tSoraNo=1&tAyahNo=7&tDisplay=yes&UserProfile=0&LanguageId=2

(The path of those whom Thou hast favoured), the Religion of those whom You have blessed with the Religion and who are the followers of Moses, before the blessings of Allah deserted them, in that He shaded them with a white cloud and sent down on them honey and quails when they were in the wilderness.

**It is also said that (the path of those whom Thou hast favoured) refers to the prophets. (Not of those who earn Thine anger), not the religion of the Jews who earned Your anger, whom You forsook and whose hearts You did not protect until they became complaisant.

(Nor of those who go astray), nor the religion of the Christians who erred from Islam. **

Amen: thus shall be its custodians; it is also said that Amen means let it be so. It is also said that it means: O our Lord! Do with us as we have requested You.

And Allah knows best’.

altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMadhNo=2&tTafsirNo=73&tSoraNo=1&tAyahNo=7&tDisplay=yes&UserProfile=0&LanguageId=2

*In my original submission I indicated that Surah 1 seemed innocuous enough except when the meaning was clarified by the Prophet (pbuh). Those who invoke the wrath of Allah were the Jews and those who went astray were the Christians.

What I find difficult to understand How Allah can pass collective judgment on a people. Are all Jews bad? Are all Christians bad? and also are all Muslims Good?*

 

[cathdoki]

I’d stay away from Saudi & the voodoo which doctor deal, they recently executed a woman whom the local people claimed that she placed evil spells on them…

No conversions my dear… remain Catholic…!!

Anyway, back to the topic of the thread…

 

[cathdoki]

*In my original submission I indicated that Surah 1 seemed innocuous enough except when the meaning was clarified by the Prophet (pbuh). Those who invoke the wrath of Allah were the Jews and those who went astray were the Christians.

What I find difficult to understand How Allah can pass collective judgment on a people. Are all Jews bad? Are all Christians bad? and also are all Muslims Good?*

Not to be critical, but why would a Christian put pbuh after Mohammad’s name? He denied Christ and has lead billions astray. It would seem that Dante’s view of him is accurate. There’s no peace there. Only torment.

 

[jakasaki]

*In my original submission I indicated that Surah 1 seemed innocuous enough except when the meaning was clarified by the Prophet (pbuh). Those who invoke the wrath of Allah were the Jews and those who went astray were the Christians.

What I find difficult to understand How Allah can pass collective judgment on a people. Are all Jews bad? Are all Christians bad? and also are all Muslims Good?*

I understand what you are asking, I was replying to Elwill.

He stated that sura 1 verse 7 was **not **talking about Jews & Christians, but indeed it is when you look up the tafsirs.

And that is why I posted them, pretty much for his review & discussion.

 

[cathdoki]

I understand what you are asking, I was replying to Elwill.

He stated that sura 1 verse 7 was **not **talking about Jews & Christians, but indeed it is when you look up the tafsirs.

And that is why I posted them, pretty much for his review & discussion.

I don’t understand what this pbuh from a Christian is when applied to mohammad. Is this really a Christian? No Christian sees mohammad as a prophet. As a matter of fact he is the anti-prophet. He taught that Jesus was not God. Just a regular person as you and I. How could a christian use pbuh after his name. Is there trolling going on?

 

[cathdoki]

*In my original submission I indicated that Surah 1 seemed innocuous enough except when the meaning was clarified by the Prophet (pbuh). Those who invoke the wrath of Allah were the Jews and those who went astray were the Christians.

What I find difficult to understand How Allah can pass collective judgment on a people. Are all Jews bad? Are all Christians bad? and also are all Muslims Good?*

All Jews deny Christ, but are God’s chosen people. All Muslims deny Christ and the koran teaches them to hate Jews and Christians. Ya know, pigs and dogs. Actually I love bacon and my 3 dogs so that doesn’t bother me. All Christians believe Jesus is God and are correct.

Now, what’s this with pbuh and capitol P when referring to mohammad? Should we put pbuh after Buddha? What about Calvin? Oh and what about Luther? I don’t understand. At least Calvin and Luther were Christians.

 

[Cinette]

I don’t understand what this pbuh from a Christian is when applied to mohammad. Is this really a Christian? No Christian sees mohammad as a prophet. As a matter of fact he is the anti-prophet. He taught that Jesus was not God. Just a regular person as you and I. How could a christian use pbuh after his name. Is there trolling going on?

*I do not believe that Mohammed was a prophet but I do believe in showing respect to Muslims (even if they do not respect me) hence I put the pbuh for that reason.

Anything wrong with that?

Cinette*

 

[Cinette]

All Jews deny Christ, but are God’s chosen people. All Muslims deny Christ and the koran teaches them to hate Jews and Christians. Ya know, pigs and dogs. Actually I love bacon and my 3 dogs so that doesn’t bother me. All Christians believe Jesus is God and are correct.

Now, what’s this with pbuh and capitol P when referring to mohammad? Should we put pbuh after Buddha? What about Calvin? Oh and what about Luther? I don’t understand. At least Calvin and Luther were Christians.

*The capital was a slip…

*