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John_Paul_Jones
Guest
Why do you name-drop Moses? He was from the tribe of Levite a descendant of Jacob son of Isaac.
I am appalled of the 10 to 1 ratio of people going to hell.
- Status
I am appalled of the 10 to 1 ratio of people going to hell.
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Cinette
Guest
*One evening my husband and I were having dinner with a Muslim couple in their home. They were beautiful gentle people. He was a Kurd and she was a Turk.
During our conversation I could say there were things we discussed where we agreed - absolutely they were pro-life and there were other things mentioned that had us nodding.
Cinette
*
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Cactus
Guest
Here is a link to an article that explains how the same terms can mean one thing to Muslims and quite another to Christians:
raymondibrahim.com/7650/ground-zero-mosque
raymondibrahim.com/7650/ground-zero-mosque
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Advance
Guest
You ask whether we can start by building churches across saudi arabia. Thats a great idea, the first step is to stop giving the saudis and other terrorist countries millions of aid every year. you see the double standard here?
From personal experience,having lived in the region and suffered alongside my people, I can say that Islam,as a doctrine, has little to do with the problems of the middle east and the recent tension between the east and the west.
Look laws and regulations that allow for peaceful co-existance do not happen without people making them in the first place,I feel the solution is a personal one, we must strive to do good on our own. Part of that is being fair and modest in our approach towards the opinions of others.
I wish I can take away the bigotry, hate, racism etc. that exists, I really wish I can.,but we need not add fuel to the fire do we?
Perhaps one day, we can think alike …first as counterparts in creation, and second as believers in God. though we differ we still seek the same things. think about it.
This issue of building mosques and churches etc is nonsense. I reject a God who gives his creation no choice in religion …if there was ever such a God.
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MartinJordan
Guest
I think before we talk about building Churches in Saudi Arabia and where ever there is Islam, it’s better that Mosques and places of worship are first kept safe. The internecine conflicts between certains sects of Islam need to be solved before we should even consider having Churches. We don’t know how safe they will be in the first place. 
MJ
MJ
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swariffin
Guest
We believe that Allah is present everywhere at anytime in this universe. How? I don’t know because it is the power of God. Some Star Trek fans suggest that God has overcome things called “Transwarp”.
Now, please answer my question. Why God order you to face KaBah while you know that Allah is not there?
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swariffin
Guest
Dear brother,
In the book of Daniel, it was mentioned the tradition of the Jews to pray toward Jerusalem. But, while they believe that God is in heaven, they do believe that God also dwell in the Temple, especially in the “most sacred room” within the Temple. That is why, the Temple is called the “House of God”. Such sacred room can only be visited by the high priest. The room is covered by a long curtain from top to bottom. At the death of Jesus, such curtain was torn completely from top to bottom. I sincerely believe that you know this. In this case, I can understand the reason that the Jews must face Jerusalem (the Temple) when praying, although I may not agree with them.
So, the Jews, view in fact is different to the Muslims’ view. What our muslim friend (I do believe that Elwill is a good man) said was the Muslim knows that Allah ordered them to face Kabah/Mecca during praying, but they do know also that Allah is not there. There must be a reason for this. Don’t you think so?
That is why I ask our Muslim friend Elwill to explain his view to us in this thread called “Understanding Islamic View”.
K
KathleenGee
Guest
elwill,
Here is a priest who has experienced the transforming presence of Jesus. See how it compares to your views in Islam and how you relate to God.
"Question of the Day: How do I know when I am transformed?..
(St.) mine…Paul uses a wonderful and telling phrase: “I no longer live, but Christ in me” (Galatians 2:20)(1). It is a radically different sense of self that he is trying to describe. Until I have come to that realization myself, I have not been transformed, spiritually speaking.
Contemplative prayer draws us to our True Self, who we are ‘hidden with Christ in God’ as Paul says in Colossians 3:3 (2). This is the only self that actually exists. We came forth from God and our deepest DNA is divine. We are not human beings trying to become spiritual; we are already spiritual beings and the profound question is always: “What does it mean to be human?” I believe that is why Jesus came as a human being and consistently called himself ‘a son of man’ more than the Son of God."
Richard Rohr’s Daily Meditations
Here is a priest who has experienced the transforming presence of Jesus. See how it compares to your views in Islam and how you relate to God.
"Question of the Day: How do I know when I am transformed?..
(St.) mine…Paul uses a wonderful and telling phrase: “I no longer live, but Christ in me” (Galatians 2:20)(1). It is a radically different sense of self that he is trying to describe. Until I have come to that realization myself, I have not been transformed, spiritually speaking.
Contemplative prayer draws us to our True Self, who we are ‘hidden with Christ in God’ as Paul says in Colossians 3:3 (2). This is the only self that actually exists. We came forth from God and our deepest DNA is divine. We are not human beings trying to become spiritual; we are already spiritual beings and the profound question is always: “What does it mean to be human?” I believe that is why Jesus came as a human being and consistently called himself ‘a son of man’ more than the Son of God."
Richard Rohr’s Daily Meditations
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swariffin
Guest
Dear Brother,We must be very careful with that. Most Catholic Churches are built facing liturgical east. Remember that we also use statues and icons as things to focus on when praying. We don’t want to lead down a slippery slope on this one.
Thank you for your concern. My main topic having a discussion with our Muslim friend Elwill, is about the direction of prayer. We are not talking about statues and icons. However, your attention is highly appreciated.
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swariffin
Guest
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Advance
Guest
Indeed! Take a lesson -Oh What a wonderful world it will be.
A muslim army under the leadership of ali ibn abi talib had been marching and came upon a christian house of worship, this was in the beginning of Islam…anyways one of members of the army looked at Ali in sadness saying how many people had committed polytheism in that house of worship…meaning those christians were taking Jesus as God…Ali looked at him and told him No! How many people have found God in that house and how many people have prayed to God in that house.
The problem isn’t religion. The problem is people.
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KathleenGee
Guest
How about seeing how another experiences Christ…He died for us, and gave us new life in Him…He restored us to God and he restored us to common humanity…we are all part of one another in God…
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Cinette
Guest
*Hello Advance!
You are articulate and wise. Explain this to me please:
Surah 3 Al-Imran - Verse 85
*And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers."
*My dear friend! I accept your sincerity and friendship but…have you read the Qu’ran?
Cinette
***
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elwill
Guest
exactly as your view , allah is present at anytime in any place
God orderd us to face specific direction to unite muslims of the world to one directioni n thier prayer
why kaabah ?
3-96 The first House (of worship) appointed for men was that at Bakkah, full of blessing and of guidance for all kinds of beings.
This small building has been constructed and reconstructed by Prophets Adam, Ibrahim, Ismail and Muhammad (peace be upon them all). No other building has had this honor.
The very first construction of the Kaba was done by Prophet Adam (peace be upon him). Allah says in the Quran that this was the first house that was built for humanity to worship Allah.
After this, Prophet Ibrahim and Ismail (peace be upon them) rebuilt the Kaba
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elwill
Guest
if you asked yourself , why we consider all prophets of God to be muslims , and why we consider all thier true followers to be muslims*Hello Advance!
You are articulate and wise. Explain this to me please:
Surah 3 Al-Imran - Verse 85
*And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers."
*My dear friend! I accept your sincerity and friendship but…have you read the Qu’ran?
Cinette
hence , you should to asking yourself what is the defination of islam and defination of muslims
once you understand the root meaning of this word , you will understand this verse more clearly
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elwill
Guest
let me add another lesson about the second khaleef " Omar bn al-khattab" and his treaty in Jerusalem within his tour
Caliph signed the treaty of peace. It ran as follows:
“From the servant of Allah and the Commander of the Faithful, Omar: The inhabitants of Jerusalem are granted security of life and property. Their churches and crosses shall be secure. This treaty applies to all people of the city. Their places of worship shall remain intact. These shall neither be taken over nor pulled down. People shall be quite free to follow their religion. They shall not be put to any trouble…”
The gates of the city were now opened. Omar went straight to the Temple of David (Masjid-i-Aqsa). Here he said his prayer under David’s Arch.
Next he visited the biggest Christian church of the city. He was in the church when the time for the afternoon prayer came.
“You may say your prayers in the church,” said the Bishop.
“No,” replied Omar, “if I do so, the Muslims may one day make this an excuse for taking over the church from you.”
So he said his prayers on the steps of the church. Even then, he gave the Bishop a writing. It said that the steps were never to be used for congregational prayers nor was the Adhan call to prayer ] to be said there.
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elwill
Guest
i’m not sure from your question exactly
but i think that you can find many from each relegion may say the same about his personal spiritual feeling toward his relegion , right ?
The Prophet Muhammad said, “No babe is born but upon Fitra (as a Muslim). It is his parents who make him a Jew or a Christian or a Polytheist.” (Sahih Muslim, Book 033, Number 6426)
When a child is born, it has with it a natural belief in God. This natural belief is called in Arabic the “Fitrah”.[1] If the child were left alone, it would grow up aware of God in His oneness, but all children are affected by the pressures of their environment whether directly or indirectly. The Prophet, may the mercy and blessings of God be upon him, reported that God said,
“I created My servants in the right religion but the devils made them go astray
So, just as the child submits to the physical laws which Allah has put in nature, his soul also submits naturally to the fact that Allah is his Lord and Creator. But, his parents try to make him follow their own way and the child is not strong enough in the early stages of his life to resist or oppose the will of his parents. The religion which the child follows at this stage is one of custom and upbringing and Allah does not hold him to account or punish him for this religion
Because of all these powerful forces fighting against the Fitrah God chose certain righteous men and revealed to them clearly the right path in life. These men whom we call prophets were sent to help our Fitrah defeat its enemies.
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Cinette
Guest
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Jehoshua
Guest
“I am the way, the truth and the life, no one comes to the father except through me”
Jesus Christ.
Jesus Christ.
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KathleenGee
Guest
Elwill,
What you are describing is what we call the soul. The soul is spirit and is of God. That is what Fr Rohr is talking about. The very core of us is divine because it makes us human, it makes us spirit, made in God’s image. We are persons.
What I am also trying to share with you through experience, rather than discussing because we use different words to describe the same thing. I gave you the example of what we call the soul.
When I refer to you, I am also referring to you as a person, who not only has a soul, the soul is you. Many say the heart is the essence of a person. But rather the heart is what we choose to carry – hatred or love and understanding – and mutuality. I mean to say, in God’s eyes, in the Christian tradition, He has no favorites…we are all equal as human beings before God.
What Fr Rohr is experiencing is the saving and redeeming life of Christ we Christians experience when we die to our self, meaning in one aspect, our self-will, what we choose and what we value, even of our very selves, and dying to our selves through the power of the Cross…that Jesus died on, and calling upon Him to save us from our sins.
We Christians, when we totally denounce ourselves, experience this new life of the Resurrection in our beings. We are forgiven. We are brand new. We are filled with supernatural joy that words cannot explain. We experience His great Spirit filling ours. We come to see that it is Christ Who lives and not us. Of course, each day is a new walk that requires again to live this day in Christ, and not ourselves.
We see then how good it is that God became Man to be part of us. The other day I was driving with my son who is questioning God…I told Him that we who believe in Christ know He is with us every day, He is with us now as we drive. He is among us in His spirit around us. It is a choice to live in His kingdom rather than in the spirit of the world…
And so it is a great thing that Christ called Himself the Son of Man…because right now, I can’t see Him, as He is so small …but He lives within me. And yet He is God. No mortal man can do this to another person, no human being can bring inner life in the Spirit and Truth to another.
Christ frees us of the past so we can begin again, and work with Him in making the world better. Right now spiritual people are saying all the evil in the world is being brought out into the light…like an infection coming to its head, so that Truth and Spirit can lance it.
So the safe way for us before God is to be friends with Muslims…In the beginning it is very hard because mutual respect must exist between the two, and Muslims need to respect our history, our people as the West is doing and allowing religious expression that is not allowed in Muslim countries. I see this as a sign of strength, even in spite of secular values and their intentions to destroy Christianity.
In the end God’s love will prevail, because it is the means to life and growth and good will.
What you are describing is what we call the soul. The soul is spirit and is of God. That is what Fr Rohr is talking about. The very core of us is divine because it makes us human, it makes us spirit, made in God’s image. We are persons.
What I am also trying to share with you through experience, rather than discussing because we use different words to describe the same thing. I gave you the example of what we call the soul.
When I refer to you, I am also referring to you as a person, who not only has a soul, the soul is you. Many say the heart is the essence of a person. But rather the heart is what we choose to carry – hatred or love and understanding – and mutuality. I mean to say, in God’s eyes, in the Christian tradition, He has no favorites…we are all equal as human beings before God.
What Fr Rohr is experiencing is the saving and redeeming life of Christ we Christians experience when we die to our self, meaning in one aspect, our self-will, what we choose and what we value, even of our very selves, and dying to our selves through the power of the Cross…that Jesus died on, and calling upon Him to save us from our sins.
We Christians, when we totally denounce ourselves, experience this new life of the Resurrection in our beings. We are forgiven. We are brand new. We are filled with supernatural joy that words cannot explain. We experience His great Spirit filling ours. We come to see that it is Christ Who lives and not us. Of course, each day is a new walk that requires again to live this day in Christ, and not ourselves.
We see then how good it is that God became Man to be part of us. The other day I was driving with my son who is questioning God…I told Him that we who believe in Christ know He is with us every day, He is with us now as we drive. He is among us in His spirit around us. It is a choice to live in His kingdom rather than in the spirit of the world…
And so it is a great thing that Christ called Himself the Son of Man…because right now, I can’t see Him, as He is so small …but He lives within me. And yet He is God. No mortal man can do this to another person, no human being can bring inner life in the Spirit and Truth to another.
Christ frees us of the past so we can begin again, and work with Him in making the world better. Right now spiritual people are saying all the evil in the world is being brought out into the light…like an infection coming to its head, so that Truth and Spirit can lance it.
So the safe way for us before God is to be friends with Muslims…In the beginning it is very hard because mutual respect must exist between the two, and Muslims need to respect our history, our people as the West is doing and allowing religious expression that is not allowed in Muslim countries. I see this as a sign of strength, even in spite of secular values and their intentions to destroy Christianity.
In the end God’s love will prevail, because it is the means to life and growth and good will.
- Status