Understanding the Original Greek for Matthew 16:18-19

[po18guy]

But that’s another story…for another time…another thread…

Still true though.

 

[George720]

Ok, how do I get the software to show me how the verbs in the verses are properly conjugated?

I see the Greek text, but more specifically I’d like to see the conjugation of the verbs.

I simply hover my arrow over the Greek verb I want to have identified, and it parses it for me… For example:
και ο εαν δησης επι της γης εσται δεδεμενον (5772) εν τοις ουρανοις
Hovering over δησης yields -
Verb: future, active, indicative, second person, singular
Literal translation: And what if ever you shall bind upon the earth…
The next verb, εσται, when you hover over it with your selector, shows up at the bottom of the box just below as:
Verb: future, middle-deponent, indicative, third person, singular
Its subject is the o the ‘what’, and it is followed immediately by another verb, a participle, which is δεδεμενον, which serves to augment the primary verb, “shall be”, the future middle deponent… Deponent means it can be active or middle voice, and ‘to be’ is just that kind of a word… So in Neanderthal English, it comes our “shall be having been already bound” (in the heavens)… In Greek, this is a smooth flow of word and thought… In English it is a “wait-a-minute” way to speak… So we dress it up some with an English future perfect construction: “Shall have been bound” (in the heavens)… This eliminates the two verb construction in Greek with but one verb in the English… It is either that or get the ruler over the knuckles from your English grammar teacher!

Is this tmi?

geo

 

[kainosktisis]

Ahhhhhhhh! Thank you!

 

[Gorgias]

How are the verbs in Greek conjugated to indicate that it was Peter & not any other Apostle(s)/any other believers?

@De_Maria correctly points out that Mt 16:18 uses σοι (“to you”, in the singular). The plural (“I give to ya’ll…”) would be ὑμῖν.

Another approach might be to notice the verbs for ‘binding’ and ‘loosing’: Mt 16:19 uses δήσῃς and λύσῃς (which are singular in grammatical number) while Mt 18:18 (directed to all the apostles) uses δήσητε and λύσητε (which are plural).

 

[Usige]

The plural (“I give to ya’ll …”) would be ὑμῖν .

That gave me a laugh as I was looking at Strong’s Greek dictionary. He lists ye, you, your(-selves) for hymin/ὑμῖν, but seems he missed “ya’ll”

 

[kainosktisis]

Yes, I believe that Steve Ray had said the same while speaking about Peter, the Rock, & the Keys on YouTube. :+1:t3:

 

[po18guy]

To obtain full, or fuller understanding of any scripture, one must rely on the unfailing Apostolic Tradition for the meaning and use of those terms.

Show me a dictionary which has but a single definition or use for any given word…

Thus, without the illumination of the Apostles’ teaching, hauling out the Greek or Hebrew dictionaries leads only to further confusion.

The fruits of the reformation prove this as thoroughly as any fact may be proven.

Or Lord did not leave us orphans, either with or without dictionaries.

 

[George720]

How are the verbs in Greek conjugated to indicate that it was Peter & not any other Apostle(s)/any other believers?

18 κἀγὼ δέ σοι λέγω

"And I to you am saying…

Jesus is talking only to Peter here - And He said so…

This does not preclude the Keys being given as an Apostolic endowment to the other Apostles, but in this passage, He is giving them to Peter… And if the meaning of the Keys is the power to bind and to loose sins, then this was assuredly given to all the Apostles…

geo

 

[DaveBj]

If we were still using Elizabethan English (KJV, D-R), this question wouldn’t even have come up. “And I say unto thee . . . whatsoever thou shalt bind . . .” – the “thxx” pronouns were singular.

D

 

[kainosktisis]

I didn’t know that. I just learned something new.

 

[Usige]

Yep, “you” was originally only the plural object case (as opposed to “ye” being the plural subjective case; thou and thee being the corresponding singular forms). If I remember correctly ye and you were sometimes used as formal singular cases also (something like tu and vous in French).

Not sure if Koine Greek followed a similar convention, but as far as I know the singular case has never been used as a formal form of the plural case (as opposed to multiple examples where the plural is sometimes used as a formal form of singular case)