US Bishops on George Floyd Killing: ‘Racism is Not a Thing of the Past’

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We know that it was a product of a class society that tends to leave black communities as some of the most impoverished and brutalised, and in this sense it was racist
No, we don’t know that. What has historically kept black communities behind and brutalized was and is government. Jim Crow, for example, was imposed by governments controlled by Democrats. It is no coincidence that the inter generational poverty in inner cities parallels the half century governing dominance by progressive Democrats in those cities. Free markets, limited government, and the primacy of individual rights is the solution. Primarily, Mr. Floyd Had his civil and individual rights violated by government.
Black-on-black violence, high rates of crime from black people, black poverty, police brutality towards black people - all of this is connected and points to the racism inherent in the way our society is organised.
Not in the way it is supposed to be organized, but in the way it has been undermined by the abuse of power of those who promote strong government at the expense of individual rights.
There may or may not be a racial component here, but the primary atrocity in all of these cases is the violation of individual rights by those promoting then abusing government power.
It doesn’t matter whether any of the police involved were personally motivated by racism. Even if it were confirmed, I think it would be a distraction to focus on it.
On this we agree. The focus should be on strictly limiting government power and returning to the primacy of individual rights.
 
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It doesn’t matter whether any of the police involved were personally motivated by racism.
That pretty much sums up all that is wrong with what’s going on.

We live in a post-truth society where facts and truth are irrelevant; only the party line is accepted. We are all racists because someone says we are all racists, regardless of any evidence one way or the other.
 
Free markets, limited government, and the primacy of individual rights is the solution.
Only to the extent they match up with Catholic social teaching, which places limits on markets and does in fact promote the use of state action to coordinate the economy for the common good.

However you are partly right. Ironically one libertarian solution to what to do after slavery ended may have been the one that could have undone a lot of harm this country has been through: they should have given the land the slaves worked to the former slaves. After all they had ‘homesteaded’ it with their labor. Give them the estates and we may have avoided a lot of horrible things.
 
Only to the extent they match up with Catholic social teaching, which places limits on markets and does in fact promote the use of state action to coordinate the economy for the common good.
Only in keeping some from violating the rights of others. The common good is best served by free markets.
However you are partly right. Ironically one libertarian solution to what to do after slavery ended may have been the one that could have undone a lot of harm this country has been through: they should have given the land the slaves worked to the former slaves. After all they had ‘homesteaded’ it with their labor. Give them the estates and we may have avoided a lot of horrible things.
Perhaps, though I wouldn’t phrase it as libertarian, necessarily.
 
Only in keeping some from violating the rights of others. The common good is best served by free markets.
Free markets of a sort. I defer to the social encyclicals and Compendium.
 
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Only in keeping some from violating the rights of others. The common good is best served by free markets.
Free markets of a sort. I defer to the social encyclicals and Compendium.
You’re welcome to. I’m not Catholic in communion with the Bishop of Rome, and I don’t think the Church generally has a great track record regarding civil government.
That said, I also agree with John Adams’ comment about our constitution requiring a moral and religious people to be effective.
 
Of course, racism still exists.

How many black on white violent incidences are being discussed? Twin Cities easily has a few of those, not that many though. They still deserve recognition.

It’s not like the black on black murders that are about 7000 a year.
 
Yes, a moral and religious people need a sense of the common good which we lack because of the hyper individualism that has affected our culture/society.

And there is no good in a laissez faire type of capitalism that puts profits over people and the dignity of its workers.

Some government intervention would be necessary.
 
So, you have no evidence. I would propose that If one assumes he acted out of racism simply because he is white, it is in itself, a racist assumption by definition. That isn’t meant to exclude the possibility. I just haven’t seen evidence that race was his motivation.
Either way, his actions appear to be heinous.
If you push too hard, they begin to refuse to do their jobs creating civil chaos.
More often the are told not to police by mayors who have no problem with businesses being looted and burned. Even the fact that they are often minority owned doesn’t impact their decision.
If you don’t push, you get the racist/authoritative police state that causes an unarmed citizen to be killed.
There might be racism, but these incidents are very often the result of an authoritarian mindset by progressive politicians.
 
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One conclusion from one paper, that a comprehensive analysis shows that predictive factors include the racial composition of criminals within the area rather than the race of the police officer or the victim.
OK, but getting back to racism and specifically to the perception of racism among the people being policed, what is the relevance?

Let us say (for the argument’s sake only) that it is more common for teachers to be unfair or to stereotype what boys should or shouldn’t be only because they are boys at a boys school or at a military school than at a co-educational school. It might change which schools are the most in need of intervention. It doesn’t change whether the treatment is fair or not or whether it is tolerable anywhere.

There are two separate issues that need to be faced. One is the perception of racism. One is the reality of racial injustice. They are two related and yet separate things. Someone can feel as if they are being treated unjustly because they are, or they can imagine it. Conversely, someone can be treated unjustly and know it but can also be treated unjustly without knowing that they deserve to be treated differently.

The third issue is the appreciation of the unjust treatment of others. We can experience no racism and conclude it doesn’t exist. We can experience racism and conclude that no one outside our group experiences it. We can see some people getting preferential treatment because they are in one group and we’re not and incorrectly assume that everyone in that group gets that preferential treatment. We can make stereotypical judgments of our own: oh, it is easy for you, you are in the group that gets the preferential treatment.

If you think about it, though, it is never that simple. Let us say that some girls go through school batting their eyes and seeming to get everything they want. It is predictable for those who are on the short end of this favoritism to feel slighted. They deserve that! They have experienced an injustice. Still…Is it true that all pretty girls do that? That all girls could do that if they wanted? That there are no negative stereotypes that hold pretty girls back, too? So what happens if people who have been passed over due to favoritism shown to the “pretty girls” just starts assuming that everyone who appears similar to those treated with favoritism are getting that treatment? If they let themselves have those blanket attitudes (which are understandable), they’re going to fall into unfair attitudes themselves. It doesn’t mean the injustice they’ve faced isn’t real. It means that not only can someone who has been through injustice due to unfair stereotypes fall into doing that to someone else, but that they could even be more vulnerable to unjust thinking. If the stereotype is used against you, an accidental difference does become a real thing. The psychologists can tell you all the ways in which that treatment can very quickly change a person’s outlook.

We can all remember the story of Jane Elliot’s 3rd grade classroom:

 
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I could find evidence, but I’m not wasting my time
It wouldn’t take any time. If there was evidence, it would be on the media. I would point you to it. It would just be one more reason to hold this sorry excuse for a police officer in contempt.
It is not a waste of time to have evidence before an accusation.
If you only pay attention during riots, then you don’t understand the issues that often exist between police and governmental leaders.
The police do what they’re told. Baltimore a few years ago was an example.
“I made it very clear that I work with the police and instructed them to do everything that they could to make sure that the protesters were able to exercise their right to free speech,” Rawlings-Blake said. “It’s a very delicate balancing act. Because while we try to make sure that they were protected from the cars and other things that were going on, we also gave those who wished to destroy space to do that as well. And we worked very hard to keep that balance and to put ourselves in the best position to de-escalate.”
She worked with the police. She instructed them. Pretty clear.
Project much?
Not at all. I observe.
 
Yes, a moral and religious people need a sense of the common good which we lack because of the hyper individualism that has affected our culture/society.
I completely disagree. This country has spent the equivalent of the national debt on federal social programs since the late sixties. This country had provided untold billions in foreign aide once World War II. This is the most generous people in the history of the world. And we are able to be because of free markets and individual rights.
And there is no good in a laissez faire type of capitalism that puts profits over people and the dignity of its workers.
No one is talking about laissez fair capitalism. I’m talking about free markets, as free as they can be and still protect the consumer. Profits make it puss for the worker to have dignity. It is under socialism that dignity is denied.
 
Sure, it would take time, because I would review it before posting it. If you want to, go ahead and point the thread to it.
You would review if? Really? You’ve been willing to accuse without evidence. Unless I’ve misunderstood.
Sure, the police do what they are told.
You’ve been saying the mayors don’t control the police.
Picking your battles.
At the expense of minority owned businesses.
And yet you seem so unaware of the authoritative comments of Trump.
I’ve criticized his actions and comments when deserved. I don’t by into the ongoing attempts to overturn the 2016 elections.
You seem to be conflicted about this. In another post you blame Trump or the coronavirus deaths because he didn’t act. Now you say he’s acted as an authoritarian.
 
The common good is not just about giving money or aid, the common good connotes shared values that a society works together to achieve.

We are living in a society that has lost much of that because we no longer focus on the common good or even agree on what is of value. We have become too self-indulgent, putting the individual before community, before family . . .etc.

This is why divorce is rampant, abortion is legal euthanasia acceptable . . . etc.
No one is talking about laissez fair capitalism. I’m talking about free markets, as free as they can be and still protect the consumer. Profits make it puss for the worker to have dignity. It is under socialism that dignity is denied.
I never said capitalism is bad I said certain forms of it are less than ideal, i.e., liberal capitalism, which is too focused on the individual as opposed to the common good is antithetical in many ways to Christianity.
 
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The common good is not just about giving money or aid, the common good connotes shared values that a society works together to achieve.
Those shared values are free markets, limited government, and the primacy of individual rights.
We are living in a society that has lost much of that because we have become too self indulgent, a society that puts the self first before community, before family . . .etc.
Again, the evidence points otherwise, other than by those calling for centralized power and socialist economics.
This is why divorce is rampant, abortion is legal euthanasia acceptable . . . etc.
Again, these are part of the progressive movement. That’s not the fault of free markets.
 
I suggest reading the book The Quest for Community by Robert Nisbet, a prominent conservative of the twentieth century.
 

Candace Owen is the only source I have with information about some of Mr. Floyd’s rap sheet.
I’m sure the cops knew about Mr. Floyd’s history of illicit drug use and violent behavior.
Couple that with the fact that the autoposy report shows that Mr. Floyd had illicit drugs in him at the time of arrest, tested positive with Covid-19, had heart disease, was angry because he was caught trying to pass fake money. Proving that Mr. Floyd was murdered or even abused for his race will be tough to prove in a court.

Serious accusations and no clear evidence. That is all I am saying.

This is good and bad.
What I think we will see…ongoing violent mob eruptions about nothing. Saddling with the mob won’t save you.
 
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Sure, I would review it carefully so that there are major flaws. The evidence exists; I’m just not going to go looking for it now.
Then don’t make an accusation.
Oh, that was sarcasm. Sorry. That isn’t obvious.
Then you agree that the police reflect the policies of the mayor.
Yes, it’s too bad that those that fan the flames condemn the fires.
It is the progressives that do both.
I don’t want to see business people hurt, but I also don’t want to see the violence escalate. That’s the calculation that everyone needs to make right now
The violence escalates when the police violate individual rights then don’t protect property rights.
I’m sure you have. That you seem ignorant of his rhetoric on race matters is then pretty amazing.
How about some examples. You know, evidence.
Now, nothing I said is in conflict and the fact that you think so makes me confident that I would be wasting time providing good sources on police racism to this discussion.
That seems to be your approach: accusations without evidence.
 
Those shared values are free markets, limited government, and the primacy of individual rights.
Oh my goodness, Jon this is not the glue that binds society together. I mean other than materialism, profit, and an overzealous understanding of individual rights do you really think that these factors are all that’s needed to create a society geared towards the common good??
 
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