US Bishops on George Floyd Killing: ‘Racism is Not a Thing of the Past’

[PetraG]

Maybe we shouldn’t just assume that this trend of out-of-wedlock births is tied directly to US politics.
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I actually was at table with a group of people who had a conversation in which one person said that there was no point in getting married unless you wanted children, to which another said that meant the was no point in getting married, because who do you know that is still together when their children graduate from high school? I was the only one at the table who had a different experience. None of us were black.

I know many people who had a child out of wedlock. They had sex outside of marriage and they chose life. If we’re going to expect people to hold off on sex until marriage and hold off marriage until they’ve completed college, we really need to ditch our hyper-sexualized and objectifying culture. You cannot ruin the innocence of children so much that they’re asking themselves if they are “sexy” in middle school and then expect them to hold off on sex until they’re 26.

This is the trend in out of wedlock births in the US:
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It has not gone up in just one ethnic group.

 

[JonNC]

Drawing a parallel at all is a stretch, unless you have evidence of some big contrast between jurisdictions run by one party or the other

I see similarities between the way progressive Democrats rule now and before.

If you’re saying that this is a problem no less in jurisdictions run by one party than the other, I don’t see how anyone can dispute that.

Of course it is a greater problem in progressive run jurisdictions. The data make that obvious.

I haven’t seen evidence that this form of injustice isn’t experienced in jurisdictions that have been run by Democrats for a very long time, nor evidence that Republicans oppose professionalism in law enforcement.

Really? How often have unarmed blacks been killed in Republican run jurisdictions since, let’s say, Ferguson? The compare that to Democrat jurisdictions.

It probably is more of a problem in jurisdictions that have trouble keeping their police forces fully staffed, because they’d have a difficult time attracting the best candidates except among the ones who have a personal connection to the area.

This is interesting, because when statistics show that the reason blacks tend to be shot more often than whites is because they Statistically tend to Be involved in crime more.
Is that what you’re saying?

 

[PetraG]

This is interesting, because when statistics show that the reason blacks tend to be shot more often than whites is because they Statistically tend to Be involved in crime more.
Is that what you’re saying?

Looking at the numbers says to me that the statistics aren’t being gathered well enough to know the answers:
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-02601-9

I made my comment–and the word “probably” was meant to indicate it is a guess–about police misuse of force being more of a problem where they have staffing issues based on the adage that beggars can’t be choosers and the premise that job performance tends to slip when an organization is under-staffed and the employees don’t feel they can do their jobs according to prevailing safety standards.

I do not believe this is a problem with most police officers. I think it could easily become an endemic problem in a police force that has too many officers who really should not be in law enforcement at all (and the profession does attract some candidates for the wrong reasons) and too many officers who don’t feel they have enough people to take people into custody without injuring either the suspect or the officer.

 

[josie_L]

No, it’s fatherless families that predicts socio-economic background and that is not the fault of racism or slavery, but the breakdown of family (no fault divorce), welfare policies, the downgrading of fatherhood, traditional views of marriage and sex. . . etc.

Moreover, you’ve gone off on a complete tangent as the whole purpose of my argument was in repudiation of your simplistic claim that the higher instances of police violence towards Blacks is racially motivated or systemic.

I’ve just given you another and more valid reason why that is, i.e., Blacks commit more crimes at a rate disproportionate to their population in comparison to other races.

So please address the real issue of why you think that police are targeting Blacks if as I already stated they are committing more crimes most likely due to their fatherless upbringing??

Remember the police are not culpable or responsible for the amount of single parent single income households of which fatherless Black youths are raised into and where that may lead.

 

[Donkey]

Your little fairytale picture is terrible propaganda.
The claim that Mr. Floyd was brutalized specifically because of the color of his skin is a lie.
There is zero evidence that the arresting officer picked on him because of his color.
The result of all these gross interpretations is leading to demonizing of law enforcers… as grossly depicted in the goofy picture you share.

 

[Donkey]

I started this thread to discuss US Bishops jumping the gun and crying out the racism card before racism was actually proven. That is all.

So many people have lost their minds…running amok.
A little clear truth and honesty can go a long way.
A little unfair dishonest bias does too.

 

[josie_L]

I’d like to know what people think of the fact that a cop is 18.5 TIMES more likely to be killed by a black male then a cop killing a black male???

Regarding threats to blacks from the police: A police officer is 18.5 times more likely to be killed by a black male than an unarmed black male is to be killed by a police officer.

 

[Donkey]

’d like to know what people think of the fact that a cop is 18.5 TIMES more likely to be killed by a black male then a cop is to kill a black male.

Crickets…that is all you will hear.

 

[PetraG]

There is zero evidence that the arresting officer picked on him because of his color.

There is the experience of people who have been singled out for bad treatment or being denied decent treatment because of the color of their skin. Do you not think it happens? It does. It still does.

This incident does zero to convince them that what they experienced couldn’t have been much worse than it was, and much worse because of the color of their skin.

The question is whether bad actors like this 19-year veteran are being protected. We know what the decision to hide bad behavior by a very few priests did to how all of them are viewed after the truth comes out. No, it is not fair to the vast majority who were always professional and in fact lived lives of admirable self-sacrifice, deserving of honor and respect. It is grossly unfair, and it shouldn’t be allowed to happen.

That is still nothing next to the people who know that they were mistreated by people in a position of trust and nothing happened and nobody seemed to care. They’re the real victims.

 

[Donkey]

The question is whether bad actors like this 19-year veteran are being protected.

Chauvan will be given a fair trial. Until then, no one should have spoken about racism. Speaking out prematurely goes against Christian moral. Terrible. There, I said it. Knowing that a ‘certain crowd’ is tinder, wiser more prudent words could have and should have been shared.

‘Black’ people are committing the largest percentage of crime. With that, there is a certain percentage of that percentage that are downright violent and difficult for Law Enforcers to manage.

Law Enforcement is a dangerous and difficult job I would not advise for the faint hearted.

 

[WingedHussar]

I doubt it, the bears have castle doctrine.

 

[PetraG]

Chauvan will be given a fair trial. Until then, no one should have spoken about racism. Speaking out prematurely goes against Christian moral. Terrible. There, I said it. Knowing that a ‘certain crowd’ is tinder, wiser more prudent words could have and should have been shared.

‘Black’ people are committing the largest percentage of crime. With that, there is a certain percentage of that percentage that are downright violent and difficult for Law Enforcers to manage.

How does someone go from decrying rash judgment based on skin color in one paragraph and right into defending rash judgment based on skin color in the next? It is like watching an acrobat, it really is.

The guy was accused of passing a bad $20 bill. He had handcuffs on. He was found dead in police custody, and there is videotaped evidence that the knee in his neck stayed right where it was after he gave the officer the (not at all surprising) information that he could not breathe and on for minutes after he stopped showing any signs of being conscious.

That is not how law enforcement is done in the 21st century, and an officer who does his job that way is liable to face the legal consequences for what he did to the suspect in his custody.

 

[PetraG]

I doubt it, the bears have castle doctrine.

Castle doctrine? Is that what Breonna Taylor had?

 

[Donkey]

The guy was accused of passing a bad $20 bill. He had handcuffs on. He was found dead in police custody, and there is videotaped evidence that the knee in his neck stayed right where it was after he gave the officer the (not at all surprising) information that he could not breathe and on for minutes after he stopped showing any signs of being conscious.

That is not how law enforcement is done in the 21st century, and an officer who does his job that way is liable to face the legal consequences for what he did to the suspect in his custody.

And none of this proves that Chauvran is racist. Zero

rash judgment based

YOU say ‘rash’ judgement but the fact is that most crime is committed by black people particularly black men. That isn’t a rash judgement.

Apprehending violent offenders is no walk in the park. Full evidence and detail unseen by the public will be disclosed in court.
Today the mob wants to be rid of Law Enforcement
Tomorrow…court justice.

 

[PetraG]

YOU say ‘rash’ judgement but the fact is that most crime is committed by black people particularly black men. That isn’t a rash judgement.

If you say it has a thing to do with why somebody accused of passing a $20 bill died with an officer’s knee on his neck after he was put into handcuffs and well after he stopped moving at all, it is.

 

[Donkey]

If you say it has a thing to do with why somebody accused of passing a $20 bill died with an officer’s knee on his neck after he was put into handcuffs and well after he stopped moving at all , it is.

And again.
Zero evidence of racism.
All evidence will be disclosed in court despite how brutal the death of Mr. Floyd appeared.
Prejudging as racism is wrong and inflammatory

 

[LeafByNiggle]

No, it’s fatherless families that predicts socio-economic background

That is true. Fatherless families do cause poorer economic outcomes.

and that is not the fault of racism or slavery

I take issue with that. Slavery did separate fathers from their families.

as the whole purpose of my argument was in repudiation of your simplistic claim that the higher instances of police violence towards Blacks is racially motivated or systemic.

And you failed in that attempt at repudiation.

I’ve just given you another and more valid reason why that is, i.e., Blacks commit more crimes at a rate disproportionate to their population in comparison to other races.

That reason does not explain the police killings of totally innocent blacks who were committing no crime at all.

So please address the real issue of why you think that police are targeting Blacks…

I am not claiming that police are targetting blacks. I am saying that when police encounter blacks in the normal course of their policing they treat them differently.

Your little fairytale picture is terrible propaganda.
The claim that Mr. Floyd was brutalized specifically because of the color of his skin is a lie.
There is zero evidence that the arresting officer picked on him because of his color.
The result of all these gross interpretations is leading to demonizing of law enforcers… as grossly depicted in the goofy picture you share.

Sorry you didn’t get the humor. But it contains a kernel of truth. And no, I am not demonizing law enforcement officers. The vast majority of them a good sincere public servants that only want the best for their community. But systemic racism allows a few bad ones to join the force and it does not weed them out soon enough. Fortunately many police departments are now stepping up their community relations mission and increasing training on implicit bias. There is cause for hope.

I started this thread to discuss US Bishops jumping the gun and crying out the racism card before racism was actually proven.

Quite obviously not everyone agrees with you that US Bishops are jumping the gun.

I’d like to know what people think of the fact that a cop is 18.5 TIMES more likely to be killed by a black male then a cop killing a black male???

Asymmetrical statistic means nothing at all.

Chauvan will be given a fair trial. Until then, no one should have spoken about racism.

The trial will not determine is racism is a problem. The trial will determine if Chauvin is guilty of the crimes as charged. If this was the first and only instance of a black man being murdered by law enforcement, it would not have inspired the magnitude of protests that it did. It was seen as the last in a long line of atrocities.

 

[josie_L]

Here listen to Candice Owens:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1268280610818101248

 

[josie_L]

I am not claiming that police are targetting blacks. I am saying that when police encounter blacks in the normal course of their policing they treat them differently.

Differently? And what is that dependent on? By the fact that you claim Blacks are disproportionately targeted by police for violence, while disregarding that they commit more crimes.

That reason does not explain the police killings of totally innocent blacks who were committing no crime at all.

Lots of reasons could explain this, i.e., lack of training, experience, fear, bad cop, even racism . . .etc. My point is that the default position whenever a white cop kills a black assailant should NOT be racism. It is illogical and rather racist in and of itself to assume this without factoring in other reasons or looking at the data to ascertain if this is true.

Studies have been done to show that violence against a certain group by police officers is predicated on the fact that there is a greater prevalency for crime and therefore contact with that group in comparison to others.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

Here listen to Candice Owens:

No thanks. I’ll listen to Pope Francis.

Lots of reasons could explain this, i.e., lack of training, experience, fear, bad cop, even racism

But only racism explains why it hardly ever happens to innocent whites.

Studies have been done to show that violence against a certain group by police officers is predicated on the fact that there is a greater prevalency for crime and therefore contact with that group in comparison to others.

Those studies do not compare the outcome of innocents whites versus innocent blacks.