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PetraG
Guest
Why would you mention that “most crime is committed by black people” if you thought it didn’t have some bearing on how George Floyd was treated?
US Bishops on George Floyd Killing: ‘Racism is Not a Thing of the Past’
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Ender
Guest
It is a simple thing to conclude; it is an impossible thing to demonstrate.
Well, that’s one way to dismiss the studies that have been done by actual academics.
But they aren’t authorities, not in this area.
What it said was that one’s likelihood of being shot was not determined by race but by one’s involvement in violent crime.
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Ender
Guest
If slavery was responsible for separating fathers from families then the percentage of fatherless families should show a gradual reduction since emancipation. Does it? No, not at all.
According to the 1938 Encyclopaedia of the Social Sciences, that year 11 percent of black children were born to unwed mothers. Today about 75 percent of black children are born to unwed mothers. (Walter Williams)
The undeniable truth is that neither slavery nor Jim Crow nor the harshest racism has decimated the black family the way the welfare state has.
In every census from 1890 to 1954, blacks were either just as active or more so than whites in the labor market. During that earlier period, black teen unemployment was roughly equal to or less than white teen unemployment.
The most damage done to black Americans is inflicted by those politicians, civil rights leaders, and academics who assert that every problem confronting blacks is a result of a legacy of slavery and discrimination. That’s a vision that guarantees perpetuity for the problems.
This is they key observation: the belief that black problems are the result of racism pretty much guarantees that the real cause will not be addressed. The decimation of black families began in the 1960s, not the 1860s.
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josie_L
Guest
Who says it hardly happens to Whites? That’s a perception you’ve gained from the media.
And that’s why studies are so important, they don’t give off a skewed narrative.
And that’s why studies are so important, they don’t give off a skewed narrative.
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josie_L
Guest
Did the pope claim the incident was racially motivated?
LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
There is an easy way to prove me wrong.
The Pope, response to the unrest, joining with the church in St. Paul and Minneapolis and across the U.S. “in praying for the repose of the soul of George Floyd and of all those others who have lost their lives as a result of the sin of racism.”
So, yes. He did say it was racism.
He also said:
“We cannot tolerate or turn a blind eye to racism and exclusion in any form. At the same time, we have to recognize that violence is self-destructive and self-defeating. Nothing is gained by violence and so much is lost. Let us pray for reconciliation and peace.”
So for those who say the Church does not speak out against the violence, that is not true.
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Ender
Guest
As with misdiagnosed medical problems, misdiagnosed social problems can easily lead to treatments that only make the problem worse. If black social problems really are caused by racism then the solution would be very different than if they are not. That seems obvious.
If racism is the problem then one would expect things to improve as racism abated. As everyone knows, if racism exists today it is nothing like it was even into the early 60’s. Up until then it was overt and virulent. However one rates it today it is not reasonable to claim it is worse today than before.
That being the case, what explains why black progress, which had been steadily improving all through the 50’s stalled in the 60’s and has been worsening ever since? If racism is the problem then why has black society done worse even as institutional racism all but disappeared?
On the other hand, if racism is not the problem then, as Walter Williams said: "[to] assert that every problem confronting blacks is a result of a legacy of slavery and discrimination… [is] a vision that guarantees perpetuity for the problems.
If racism is the problem then one would expect things to improve as racism abated. As everyone knows, if racism exists today it is nothing like it was even into the early 60’s. Up until then it was overt and virulent. However one rates it today it is not reasonable to claim it is worse today than before.
That being the case, what explains why black progress, which had been steadily improving all through the 50’s stalled in the 60’s and has been worsening ever since? If racism is the problem then why has black society done worse even as institutional racism all but disappeared?
On the other hand, if racism is not the problem then, as Walter Williams said: "[to] assert that every problem confronting blacks is a result of a legacy of slavery and discrimination… [is] a vision that guarantees perpetuity for the problems.
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VanitasVanitatum
Guest
That’s pure presumption. Logically the most sound conclusion would be that if black people commit violent crimes more than white people than there is a higher chance of those same people getting shot because of a confrontation with the police.
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josie_L
Guest
And how does he know it’s based on racism? Seriously, I’m not begrudging him the ability to denounce this atrocious act but he of all people should know not to judge a person’s motive or inclinations.
It might be but it mightn’t be.
It might be but it mightn’t be.
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josie_L
Guest
Yes, there is an easy way to prove it but you refuse to look at the studies that run contrary to your narrative.
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Annie
Guest
Well, first, your list includes Michael Brown, who turned out not to be innocent. So your list is not really trustworthy, if it is supposed to be a list of innocent black people killed by police.
Second, there is no list of innocent white people killed by police. There are no protests or riots when an innocent white person is killed by police.
Ex-cop acquitted in fatal shooting of unarmed man at hotel (Daniel Shaver, forced to crawl down hall when shot)
https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5912976 – Dillon Taylor killed after walking away from police with hands in waistband, when he turned, police shot him
From just 2 months (Nov. And Dec., 2016) of list maintained by Guardian The Counted: people killed by police in the United States – interactive | US news | The Guardian. I summarized the reports.
12/12/16 Francisco Serna, 73, shot after neighbor mistook crucifix for a gun and called police
12/11/16 Amber Lewis, 44, shot after she called police threatening to kill girlfriend and self, then went out on porch with replica gun
11/30/16 Daniel Landeros, 41, died after being tasered and handcuffed
11/29/16 Toby Cummins, 55, shot after stealing a beer and threatening officers with a box cutter, neighbor said no threat to officers
11/18/16 Pablo Cartagena, 23, shot as he ran from police after they suspected he was trying to steal from cars
11/21/16 Sarah Palmer, 35, combative mentally ill patient tasered, died in handcuffs
11/19/16 Adalid Flores, 29, chased by police in car, shot after he left car and was running away
11/16/16 Bruce Johnson, 39, tasered then died in handcuffs
11/06/16 Christian Redwine, 17, police followed stolen car into another state and shot 3 thieves at end of chase
11/05/16 Patrick Wise, 34, shot in pursuit while driving a stolen car
11/04/16 Abraham Ortiz, 26, after acting erratically, shot during “altercation”–apparently unarmed
11/02/16 Jesse Taylor, 40, shot while fleeing on foot after robbing bank
11/01/16 Michael Shriver, 39, died after being tear gassed while evading cops under house
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josie_L
Guest
You might like to read this. It is written by an African American.
www.city-journal.org
What’s Holding Blacks Back?
By my twenties, in the 1990s, I felt grateful and excited to live in times of bracing progress for my race. Read our political article about race here.
www.city-journal.org
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PetraG
Guest
When you are dealing with a particular suspect, whether or not he looks like one group or another is either totally irrelevant or you have a racism problem.
Shot? George Floyd was not shot. He died in custody with handcuffs on his wrists, three officers to subdue him, and one with his knee on his neck in spite of inquiries about the safety of the move from other officers and in spite of moving so little that he appeared unconscious for several minutes.
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LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
True. Today racism is not tolerated today like it was back then.
Blacks have continued to progress throughout that period up until today. It is wrong to conclude that blacks have it worse today than in the 1960’s.
What has happened is that while blacks have progressed economically throughout that period, those with power and wealth have progressed more and faster. They have done this because of advances in technology that increase productivity at the same time as reducing the need for labor. That change affected blacks more than whites.
What has also happened is that awareness of the black experience has increased due to cell phone videos. Blacks always knew there was racism. But now whites know it too. So it looks like something new in happening. It is not new.
This is an overstatement of the claims that racism is a problem. And the applicability of WW’s statement is contingent on racism not being a problem.
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josie_L
Guest
You’re not arguing any points I’ve actually made nor are you validating the racial bias you seem to be proposing.
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LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
Wow! I don’t think I would have the guts to tell the Pope what he ought to know, as I was his moral teacher! I would sooner question my own understanding than to question the Pope.
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josie_L
Guest
Why wow? I am not denouncing the pope simply reiterating a Catholic teaching that EVEN POPES are bound to by tradition.
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LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
Remember, I was only talking about innocent victims of police violence.
If you read your article you will see that:
The police fatally shot nine unarmed blacks and 19 unarmed whites in 2019.
That comes to 32% for blacks and 68% for whites. Since blacks only make up 14% of the population, it appears that unarmed blacks are shot twice as much as they should be as a fraction of the population. But even that statistic does not capture the truth that I claimed, because “unarmed” does not mean “innocent”. Plus this statistic only covers shootings. It does not cover non-gun-related deaths, such as we witnessed with George Floyd.
My claim stands that police killings of innocent whites hardly ever happens like it does for blacks.
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VanitasVanitatum
Guest
Those could be unrelated and I don’t really know what was going on in their heads and there are many possibilities.
LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
Wow! That you take it upon yourself to judge when the Pope is failing to abide by tradition.
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