US Bishops on George Floyd Killing: ‘Racism is Not a Thing of the Past’

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josie_L said:
It’s a wonder why he was still policing after having had a dozen complaints filed against him??
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I think they all did, some more than others. Complaints are not the same as findings of some kind of dereliction.
 
LeafByNiggle said:
The Pope, response to the unrest, joining with the church in St. Paul and Minneapolis and across the U.S. “ in praying for the repose of the soul of George Floyd and of all those others who have lost their lives as a result of the sin of racism. ”

So, yes. He did say it was racism.
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That’s remarkable, if true. At this point, there is no evidence that Chauvin acted out of a racist motive. He might have, but it’s not certain at this point.
LeafByNiggle said:
He said that the killing was the result of the sin of racism. That racism could reside, not just in Derek Chauvin, but in the system of which he is a part. Or it could be sin of our entire society.
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“could be”? What did he mean, really? What are we to learn from statements such as this?
 
Ridgerunner said:
That’s remarkable, if true. At this point, there is no evidence that Chauvin acted out of a racist motive. He might have, but it’s not certain at this point.
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I don’t think Pope Francis is making a legal judgement. He is making a moral judgement. He identified the sin of racism. I believe him because he is not a stupid man.
 
I never said it was a contest, but there are Protestant churches/denominations that span the globe and have been around for a numbers of centuries, i.e., the Anglican Church, Lutheran. . . etc.

The point is you barely hear of the abuses that went on in these churches in comparison to the Catholic Church.

You would think from the media that the sexual abuse of minors is only a thing which happened/s in the Catholic Church, when in institutions like schools a minor is 100 times more likely to be abused by a teacher than a priest.
 
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Actually studies have been done vis a vis schools and sexual abuse (Carole Shakeshaft) and the results were that 1 in 10 children was inappropriately touched and/or sexually abused by teachers.

The point of my post is that other institutions are not scrutinized in like manner as the church is.
 
I would say it’s neither. It’s a fact judgment. Your post makes it appear the Pope decided Chauvin acted out of racist motivations. If he did, that’s a judgment of fact.
 
josie_L said:
The point of my post is that other institutions are not scrutinized in like manner as the church is.
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But one Church claims to be the the True Church founded by Jesus with Apostolic succession to prove it.

It begs being held to the highest standard with abuse of innocent children raped, males and females an unfathomable idea. Yet, systemic abuses through the activities of rogue players, (Pedophiles who became Priests, not Priests who became Pedophiles) infiltrated and spread their evil in an institution that was to mean Truth, Grace and the Sacraments.

Sounds familiar with other organizations no less accountable for their actions when set aside as an institution of serving and protecting.
 
Ridgerunner said:
I would say it’s neither. It’s a fact judgment. Your post makes it appear the Pope decided Chauvin acted out of racist motivations. If he did, that’s a judgment of fact.
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What? Sin is no longer factual, but just a matter of opinion?

But if sin is factual, and the Pope has identified that sin in the present situation, are you saying the Pope is theologically wrong in doing so? If so, you have more guts than I do, telling a Pope when he is theologically wrong.

But seriously, you are missing the point of the Pope’s remark. It was addressed not to Derek Chauvin specifically, but to our society as a whole. He is accusing us of turning a blind eye to racism. All of us. And we can no longer afford to do so. Do you agree with him or not? (The US Bishops are saying essentially the same thing.)
 
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LeafByNiggle said:
What? Sin is no longer factual, but just a matter of opinion?
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I didn’t say that. The question whether Chauvin’s act was motivated by racism is a fact judgment. That’s what I said. Don’t distort my words.
LeafByNiggle said:
The Pope, response to the unrest, joining with the church in St. Paul and Minneapolis and across the U.S. “ in praying for the repose of the soul of George Floyd and of all those others who have lost their lives as a result of the sin of racism. ”

So, yes. He did say it was racism.
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Seems to me that is inconsistent with your latest statement:
LeafByNiggle said:
But seriously, you are missing the point of the Pope’s remark. It was addressed not to Derek Chauvin specifically, but to our society as a whole.
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He was either saying Chauvin was motivated by racism (your first assertion) or he wasn’t (your second assertion). Either way, that’s a fact determination, not a determination whether racism is sinful.
 
Ridgerunner said:
He was either saying Chauvin was motivated by racism (your first assertion) or he wasn’t (your second assertion). Either way, that’s a fact determination, not a determination whether racism is sinful.
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And either way you dodged the question of whether you agree with the Pope when he said we can no longer turn a blind eye to racism.
 
LeafByNiggle said:
Do you agree with him or not?
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I would certainly agree that racism can be a sin against charity.
LeafByNiggle said:
He is accusing us of turning a blind eye to racism. All of us.
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I do not agree with this. I don’t know whether the Pope intended that or not. But I do not agree that this society “turns a blind eye” to racism. Finding racism in others is practically the national pastime.
 
LeafByNiggle said:
But if sin is factual, and the Pope has identified that sin in the present situation, are you saying the Pope is theologically wrong in doing so?
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Chauvin’s action was sinful, and he is criminally charged for having committed it. I haven’t read that he is being charged with a hate crime as well; it would be interesting to know whether that charge exists in Minnesota. If that additional charge is made he could well be found guilty of it; that would be a justifiable conclusion for a jury to make.

That is not, however, a conclusion anyone is justified in making now. It is not possible to “identify” the sin of racism at this point. That would be a rash and uncharitable judgment of the kind we are forbidden to make, and as I am sure the Pope is aware of this I cannot believe he has charged Chauvin with racism.

Brutality has been shown by the action taken. The motivation behind the action, whether racism or not, is not known and cannot (yet) be known, and no one is justified in making that judgment.
 
Ender said:
That is not, however, a conclusion anyone is justified in making now. It is not possible to “identify” the sin of racism at this point. That would be a rash and uncharitable judgment of the kind we are forbidden to make, and as I am sure the Pope is aware of this I cannot believe he has charged Chauvin with racism.
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And this is another problem: Placing 100% of the blame on Derek Chauvin for being an aberrant cop in an otherwise racism-free system. Both the Pope and the US Bishops are addressing the wider societal issue.
 
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LeafByNiggle said:
And right there we have the heart of the problem. Denial.
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I would like to understand what constitutes racism. How can we tell if one person who harms a person of a different race has acted out of racism or from something else? How can we tell which interracial acts are caused by racism and which are not? If you’re going to charge someone with being in denial about the existence of racism (as a significant problem) it would be helpful if you would explain how we can know which acts are racist and which are not.
 
It makes no difference to the child where he or she is sexually molested and neither should it matter to the public as a whole.

The media has an obligation to tell the whole truth, i.e., the constant barrage of news focused on decades old abuse cases in the Catholic Church does nothing for the children who are presently more at risk of sexual abuse in schools and/or broken homes.
 
Yes, there are some cases that have been highlighted but the fact is that the Catholic Church, not Protestant Churches, is the ONLY institution which has been scrutinized as thoroughly as it has.

I’m not begrudging the transparency, but the idea or narrative now set that child abuse is endemic to the Catholic Church (even now) as if sexual abuse of minors was a Catholic problem rather than a societal one.

villagemagazine.ie

Irish Times struggles with non-Catholic abuse - Village Magazine

In 2001 Irish Times reporter Carol Coulter wrote a short article outlining allegations of abuse affecting Smyly’s Church of Ireland Children’s Home. The report referred to preparation of a report by the health board. What the report said and indeed whether it was written were never reported. The...
villagemagazine.ie villagemagazine.ie
 
DENNYINMI said:
But one Church claims to be the the True Church founded by Jesus with Apostolic succession to prove it.

It begs being held to the highest standard with abuse of innocent children raped, males and females an unfathomable idea. Yet, systemic abuses through the activities of rogue players, (Pedophiles who became Priests, not Priests who became Pedophiles) infiltrated and spread their evil in an institution that was to mean Truth, Grace and the Sacraments.
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That just shows they don’t care about victims as much as who the abuser was.
 
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