US bishops warn of errors in feminist sister's book

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po18guy said:
CTSA is an unabashedly modernist organization, is it not? I know that its stated goals and purpose are couched in very unassuming terminology, but some of its products are clearly at odds with orthodoxy.

Yes, we are in favor of modernity.
I see it as a change agent.
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po18guy said:
We are hearing the squeals of “injustice” when modernism’s toes are rightly stepped on. This brand of “feminism” is supremacy in theologian’s clothing.
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Can you point to a “squeals of injustice” or are you just making this stuff up?
 
ricmat said:
I was talking with a friend yesterday (a former Marine) who in the context of another item said “I never met a private who didn’t think he was smarter than the generals.”
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Some privates are smarter than their generals.
 
StAnastasia said:
Elizabeth Johnson does not say anything that has not been broached by other Catholic theologians; what is intriguing is her presentation of the material. It is excellently laid out and lucidly written, which no doubt accounts for why it is so widley assigned.
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If in fact it is excellently laid out and lucidly written (compared to the other Catholic theologians), and her work is a best seller as you say, it is not surprising at all that she is receiving much “attention.” If it continues to grow, perhaps we’ll see an Ecumenical Council to address the issue.
 
StAnastasia said:
Some privates are smarter than their generals.
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No doubt.

But authority is important. I asked you on another thread if you believed in authority and you said yes.

It’s quite possible I suppose that Luther was smarter than his bishop, maybe even smarter than the Pope. Ditto for Calvin, Zwingli, etc. But knowledge is not the same as wisdom and wisdom is more important. Wisdom starts with fear of the Lord - humility and obedience.
 
StAnastasia said:
Most bishops are not theologically trained. Watching them attack Elizabeth Johnson is like watching people in birch bark canoes armed with bows and arrows attacking a fully armed “British Man of War.”
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Excuse me. Isn’t that last phrase supposed to be …a fully armed British Woman of War? Please accept my sincere apology for that unkind [to my British friends] remark. I simply wanted to point out that the feminist issue is a straw man argument or is it now a straw woman argument?

What really is at stake is the preservation of Catholic dogma. Slamming Bishops by saying in post 17 “Most bishops are not theologically trained.” ignores the presence of the Holy Spirit Who has guided the Catholic Church since Pentecost. You may slam Bishops until the cows come home, but the truth of the matter is that when the Bishops meet in a major Church Council, all yield to the wisdom of the Holy Spirit when it comes to Divine Revelation.

Slamming Bishops will never change Catholic theology into secular or “modernism” theology.

Personally, I am grateful to the Bishops who are deeply concerned about the preservation of Catholic dogma.

Blessings,
granny

The human person is worthy of profound respect from the moment of conception.
 
ricmat said:
If in fact it is excellently laid out and lucidly written (compared to the other Catholic theologians), and her work is a best seller as you say, it is not surprising at all that she is receiving much “attention.” If it continues to grow, perhaps we’ll see an Ecumenical Council to address the issue.
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I don’t think so, because I’ve seen nothing in Johnson’s work that even remotely approaches the level of issues that led to the call for Nicaea, Constantinople, Ephesus, Chalcedon, Lateran IV, Trent, or either of the Vatican Councils. I suspect that in five years few will even remember this episode, and Johnson’s work will be absorbed into the mainstream of Catholic theology, as has been the work of Teilhard, Rahner, Schillebeeckz, and numerous other theologians who once attracted adverse critique by bishops.

StAnastasia
 
grannymh said:
but the truth of the matter is that when the Bishops meet in a major Church Council, all yield to the wisdom of the Holy Spirit when it comes to Divine Revelation.
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Right; this was not a “major Church council.”
 
StAnastasia said:
Can you point to a “squeals of injustice” or are you just making this stuff up?
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Certainly, you cannot be unfamiliar with this aspect of liberal and modernist behavior, but the “squeal of injustice” is a commonly employed tactic to publicly express displeasure over the outcome of a situation, or to gain attention for a losing cause. Numerically prevalent terms include, but are not limited to “fairness”, “equality”, “justice”, and the ever popular “diversity”.

The essence: Sister has an agenda, and it is at odds with the Church.
 
po18guy said:
Certainly, you cannot be unfamiliar with this aspect of liberal and modernist behavior, but the “squeal of injustice” is a commonly employed tactic to publicly express displeasure over the outcome of a situation, or to gain attention for a losing cause. Numerically prevalent terms include, but are not limited to “fairness”, “equality”, “justice”, and the ever popular “diversity”.

Not familiar with that.
The essence: Sister has an agenda, and it is at odds with the Church.
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StAnastasia said:
Elizabeth Johnson does not say anything that has not been broached by other Catholic theologians; what is intriguing is her presentation of the material. It is excellently laid out and lucidly written, which no doubt accounts for why it is so widley assigned. (Today on Amazon.com it ranks just below the CCC and Francis Collins’ new book, even though it is three times as expensive as either one!)

Before trusting other people, you should read Johnson’s book for yourself, or at the very least her thoughtful response to the bishops’ critique.
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It would seem practical to read the book before commenting on it. It sounds interesting.
 
grannymh said:
Excuse me. Isn’t that last phrase supposed to be …a fully armed British Woman of War? Please accept my sincere apology for that unkind [to my British friends] remark. I simply wanted to point out that the feminist issue is a straw man argument or is it now a straw woman argument?

What really is at stake is the preservation of Catholic dogma. Slamming Bishops by saying in post 17 “Most bishops are not theologically trained.” ignores the presence of the Holy Spirit Who has guided the Catholic Church since Pentecost. You may slam Bishops until the cows come home, but the truth of the matter is that when the Bishops meet in a major Church Council, all yield to the wisdom of the Holy Spirit when it comes to Divine Revelation.

Slamming Bishops will never change Catholic theology into secular or “modernism” theology.

Personally, I am grateful to the Bishops who are deeply concerned about the preservation of Catholic dogma.

Blessings,
granny

The human person is worthy of profound respect from the moment of conception.
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Careful! Unless you’ve attended a CTSA conference, you have no street cred.
 
StAnastasia said:
Right; this was not a “major Church council.”
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FYI
Catholic dogmas are formed at a major Church Council. And, most important in the Catholic Church, dogmas continue to exist. That is why I applaud the Bishops for their serious concern regarding the modernist/revision movement that is prevelent today.
 
po18guy said:
Certainly, you cannot be unfamiliar with this aspect of liberal and modernist behavior, but the “squeal of injustice” is a commonly employed tactic to publicly express displeasure over the outcome of a situation, or to gain attention for a losing cause. Numerically prevalent terms include, but are not limited to “fairness”, “equality”, “justice”, and the ever popular “diversity”.

The essence: Sister has an agenda, and it is at odds with the Church.
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Do you have information to support your argument? I’m new here; posting supportive research would help me a lot.
 
StAnastasia said:
I suspect that in five years few will even remember this episode, and Johnson’s work will be absorbed into the mainstream of Catholic theology, as has been the work of Teilhard, Rahner, Schillebeeckz, and numerous other theologians who once attracted adverse critique by bishops.

StAnastasia
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Perhaps Elizabeth Johnson will someday write something that “will be absorbed into the mainstream of Catholic theology.” From what I recall most of what Teilhard wrote was condemned by the Church (I’m not familiar with the others). Perhaps he got around to writing something that was not.

It’s probably very difficult to come up with novel theology. There have been so many good theologians in the past (Sts. Teresa, Catherine, Therese, etc.) that all the good stuff has probably already been taken 😦
 
ricmat said:
Perhaps Elizabeth Johnson will someday write something that “will be absorbed into the mainstream of Catholic theology.” From what I recall most of what Teilhard wrote was condemned by the Church (I’m not familiar with the others). Perhaps he got around to writing something that was not.(
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Teilhard’s evolutionary theism has been absorbed by all but Fundamentalists and those with little or no training in science. Protestant, Catholic, and Orthodox theologies routinely reflect the Teilhardian understanding of the universe as ancient, dynamic, and evolving. Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict certainly reflect that cosmology.
 
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