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He_Man
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But you and many others are voting for Obama, so you can’t be that bothered by this fact. Be honest.
US Catholics back bishops on religious freedom, but still favor Obama, poll shows [CWN]
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scipio337
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Cognitive dissonance much?
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Bill_Martin
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Don’t know about you folks, but I have enough reasons to vote against Obama that have nothing to do with religion.
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bellasbane
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I’m not bothered by the fact that most Catholics will vote for Obama. Catholics have always been a little bit socialist when it comes to the role of government and Obama is a little bit socialist.
However, I am bothered by the fact that when the Bishops speak, many Catholics only hear, “wah, wah wah, wah wah”. I may not agree with everything the Bishops say, but I listen and generally agree with the vast majority of it. I think if people would just listen, they would agree with it too and realize they are more Catholic than they think.
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benjammin
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How come nobody has stated the obvious. It all depends on where you poll. If you poll catholics in New York City, there are going to be more liberal than say Catholics in Upstate N who will be more liberal than Catholics in rural Iowa and Nebraska and so on. Also, how many people say they are Catholic, yet only go to church twice a year. I consdider someone catholic only if they follow %100 of church teachings and actually go to church every sunday, and I bet if you polled those catholics, I would say only about 15% would vote for Obama (maybe more if you count hispanics).
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_Abyssinia
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I think it is 30%. Catechised, frequent Church going Catholics majority do not support Obama. If a poll counts Catholics who go to Church once every 7 years, you are bound to get a result like the Pew OP poll finds, because if those Catholics are not so concerned going to Church then it is obvious they are not going to be concerned about the Church’s teachings in politics.
If the Pew poll found most Church going Catholics supported Obama then that would be astonishing but that is not what the Pew poll discovered
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interestedman
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By 2 are you really suggesting that Jesus would be more interested in gay marriage and birth control than helping the poor? Really? Do you just completely disregard what Jesus said because you don’t follow Sola Scriptura?
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scipio337
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Really? If Catholics lean socialist, they haven’t been listening to more than just their bishop:
PIUS IX (1846-1878)
“You are aware indeed, that the goal of this most iniquitous plot is to drive people to overthrow the entire order of human affairs and to draw them over to the wicked theories of this Socialism and Communism, by confusing them with perverted teachings.”
Nostis et Nobiscum, December 8, 1849
LEO XIII (1878-1903)
“They [socialists, communists, or nihilists] debase the natural union of man and woman, which is held sacred even among barbarous peoples; and its bond, by which the family is chiefly held together, they weaken, or even deliver up to lust.
Quod Apostolici Muneris, December 28, 1878
SAINT PIUS X (1903-1914)
But stranger still, alarming and saddening at the same time, are the audacity and frivolity of men who call themselves Catholics and dream of re-shaping society under such conditions, and of establishing on earth, over and beyond the pale of the Catholic Church, ‘the reign of love and justice’ … What are they going to produce? … A mere verbal and chimerical construction in which we shall see, glowing in a jumble, and in seductive confusion, the words Liberty, Justice, Fraternity, Love, Equality, and human exultation, all resting upon an ill-understood human dignity. It will be a tumultuous agitation, sterile for the end proposed, but which will benefit the less Utopian exploiters of the people. Yes, we can truly say that the Sillon, its eyes fixed on a chimera, brings Socialism in its train.”
*Notre Charge Apostolique * August 15, 1910
BENEDICT XV (1914-1922)
“It is not our intention here to repeat the arguments which clearly expose the errors of Socialism and of similar doctrines. Our predecessor, Leo XIII, most wisely did so in truly memorable Encyclicals; and you, Venerable Brethren, will take the greatest care that those grave precepts are never forgotten, but that whenever circumstances call for it, they should be clearly expounded and inculcated in Catholic associations and congresses, in sermons and in the Catholic press.”
Ad Beatissimi Apostolorum, November 1, 1914
PIUS XI (1922-1939)
We make this pronouncement: Whether considered as a doctrine, or an historical fact, or a movement, Socialism, if it remains truly Socialism, even after it has yielded to truth and justice on the points which we have mentioned, cannot be reconciled with the teachings of the Catholic Church because its concept of society itself is utterly foreign to Christian truth.”
Quadragesimo Anno, May 15, 1931
PIUS XII (1939-1958)
“[The Church undertook] the protection of the individual and the family against a current threatening to bring about a total socialization which in the end would make the specter of the ‘Leviathan’ become a shocking reality. The Church will fight this battle to the end, for it is a question of supreme values: the dignity of man and the salvation of souls."
JOHN XXIII (1958-1963)
“No Catholic could subscribe even to moderate socialism”
“Pope Pius XI further emphasized the fundamental opposition between Communism and Christianity, and made it clear that no Catholic could subscribe even to moderate Socialism. The reason is that Socialism is founded on a doctrine of human society which is bounded by time and takes no account of any objective other than that of material well-being. Since, therefore, it proposes a form of social organization which aims solely at production; it places too severe a restraint on human liberty, at the same time flouting the true notion of social authority.”
Mater et Magistra, May 15
JOHN PAUL II (1978-2005)
“It may seem surprising that ‘socialism’ appeared at the beginning of the Pope’s critique of solutions to the ‘question of the working class’ at a time when ‘socialism’ was not yet in the form of a strong and powerful State, with all the resources which that implies, as was later to happen. However, he correctly judged the danger posed to the masses by the attractive presentation of this simple and radical solution to the ‘question of the working class.’"
Centesimus Annus May 1, 1991
BENEDICT XVI (2005 - present)
The State which would provide everything, absorbing everything into itself, would ultimately become a mere bureaucracy incapable of guaranteeing the very thing which the suffering person - every person - needs: namely, loving personal concern. We do not need a State which regulates and controls everything, but a State which, in accordance with the principle of subsidiarity, generously acknowledges and supports initiatives arising from the different social forces and combines spontaneity with closeness to those in need. … In the end, the claim that just social structures would make works of charity superfluous masks a materialist conception of man: the mistaken notion that man can live ‘by bread alone’ (Mt 4:4; cf. Dt 8:3) - a conviction that demeans man and ultimately disregards all that is specifically human.”
Deus Caritas Est, December 25, 2005
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interestedman
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You have to be a sheep to want to have enough money to have food and not lose your house instead of living on the streets and have a Christian deny someone birth control because it goes against their religious beliefs? Yeah, sounds like some real sheep to me.
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scipio337
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What have the Vicars of Christ said, and where did either delegate that role to the state?
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ringil
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interestedman
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You don’t have to believe everything the church supports to be Catholic. Sorry guys, the no true scotsman argument doesn’t work. And Catholics are lucky that most people feel this way because I bet a LOT of the money that goes into Catholic parishes in America is given by people that support gay marriage and birth control.
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scipio337
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Bare assertion fallacy. Catholics don’t want to “deny someone birth control”, they just don’t want to have to PAY for it.You have to be a sheep to want to have enough money to have food and not lose your house instead of living on the streets and have a Christian deny someone birth control because it goes against their religious beliefs? Yeah, sounds like some real sheep to me.
You know, that $4 a month is tough to afford when you’re going to a $46,865 a year (Jesuit) law school.
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Rich_Olszewski
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Only if they follow 100% of church teachings? That leaves me out because I’ve been known to have committed some sins - violations of church teachings - but I and other sinners have the Sacrament of Confession to get us straight with the Church. I’m not a living saint like the Catholics you know.
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scipio337
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I bet you don’t have any verifiable data to support your bet.
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scipio337
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How about that 1 million or so a year of the poorest and most disenfranchised that don’t even get a chance to live?
Yeah, the Democrat party does a lot more for them!
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Rence
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People are sheep because they’re more concerned with paying the rent, the electric bill, and the grocery bill, as opposed to what other people choose to do? Well, that means you consider most people sheep I guess
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Bill_Martin
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I think rfournier103’s point was that people care more about mundane issues than the attack on their freedoms.People are sheep because they’re more concerned with paying the rent, the electric bill, and the grocery bill, as opposed to what other people choose to do? Well, that means you consider most people sheep I guess
I am convinced that a large percentage of the population would be perfectly okay with the entire Constitution and everyone’s rights along with it going through the paper shredder on live TV if it meant gas prices dropped by 50 cents and they got a weekly $150 check from the government.
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Rence
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I agree, because most people don’t believe there is an attack on their freedoms.
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Rich_Olszewski
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There was a scene in some old movie where one of the characters said that there would be no reaction to some Nazi bigwig spouting some speech about taking away rights, indeed most would be bored, but if the same official said that the price of bread was going up by 20%, people would be all ears and all worked up about it.
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