Use NFP: It Doesn't Work

[agapewolf]

This was our experience, too, although the course was not mandatory. It was just expected that we would take it… all our peers were shocked when we didn’t. we were like …ummm we don’t see NFP as necessary to a beautiful, lasting marriage. we’ve made our decision to let go and let God, and unless our circumstances change drastically, why would we “need” the course?

While this is awesome and wonderful you have this approach, unfortunately, most couples getting married today don’t.

I think that is why NFP is marketed in the way it is, because it is up against ABC, not because it is up against “nothing”.

However, I encourage all couples to learn how to chart before marriage. I learned 7 ish years ago for my health, and found 4 probs that I would not have found if I wasn’t charting. It took me along time to figure how to chart comfortably because of these issues.

A couple doesn’t have to actually use charts when married, but it is definately easier to learn before marriage.

 

[anna1978]

I wish NFP worked, we’ve tried to use it to conceive and my it still took 13 months to conceive or first daughter, and over a year to conceive our second daughter…after that, NOTHING . And we ‘time’ it so well, with extra marital embrace either side of ovulation…I’m just so jealous of all those people who TTA and whoops…there’s another one

 

[anna1978]

BTW: that’s almost FIVE years of TTC with NFP now…I’ve even had blood-tests done to prove I ovulate and we know dh’s ‘swimmers’ are doing fine. All this about the NFP’s ‘failure rate’…I could do with a ‘failure’, honestly, even the girls are praying for a baby!

 

[3GirlsRUs]

This was our experience, too, although the course was not mandatory. It was just expected that we would take it… all our peers were shocked when we didn’t. we were like …ummm we don’t see NFP as necessary to a beautiful, lasting marriage. we’ve made our decision to let go and let God, and unless our circumstances change drastically, why would we “need” the course?

That’s wonderful that you are in a position to be able to do that. My only other thought to not learning at all was that without learning NFP, my PCOS would most likely have gone undiagnosed and my luteal phase defect also most likely would have been undiagnosed…and that could quite possibly have resulted in miscarriages. As it is, my NFP doc thinks it is nothing short of a miracle that DD#2’s pregnancy made it through the first few weeks as he looked at my charts! I was pregnant when I got in to see him at 10 weeks…but my temps had been so low…he just wondered how my body had maintained the pregnancy. I thank the Lord any time I think about that time and how…based on the charts…the temps were too low to have maintained a pregnancy…

I don’t see how knowing your body as well as possible can be a bad thing…

 

[mom24boys]

We all see you need help, we would all love to help you, but most of us are not near you. We can pray for you. We can remember to check on those in our own parishes who might need help (and do it in your honor).

I echo what Jennifer said. I would absolutely help you if I were near you. But I wonder if I were in your parish, would I know that you needed help? Your post has really gotten me thinking since you posted it. You are absolutely right. I don’t believe the Church offers much assistance for large families that are being faithful to the Church’s teachings on ABC and are struggling. I nearly died after I had my fourth baby from kidney problems and our family business was bringing in only hundreds of dollar a month (not enough to support us certainly). My husband was on the verge of a nervous breakdown from all the stress. My parents helped us, but nobody in the Church helped us. But I’m pretty certain that nobody in the Church knew we needed help. Our suffering was largely hidden.

So, perhaps the failing is twofold… there isn’t a good organized system of helping families, but maybe people don’t reach out enough, either. I have been thinking of starting an Elizabeth Ministry; maybe this would be a good way of reaching out to mothers and families in my area.

 

[Jenny_Z]

BTW: that’s almost FIVE years of TTC with NFP now…I’ve even had blood-tests done to prove I ovulate and we know dh’s ‘swimmers’ are doing fine. All this about the NFP’s ‘failure rate’…I could do with a ‘failure’, honestly, even the girls are praying for a baby!

There could be other issues. Have they checked your cervical mucus? Sometimes the mucus itself could be too acidic, making it harmful to your hubby’s swimmers. There are other things they could check as well.

 

[Rob_s_Wife]

All respect to you Tosk, but this is up to this lady, the counsel of good priests, her conscience and ultimately God.

actually this is entirely up to this lady. free will and all that. yes she will answer to God, we all will eventually. But she has the final say in what she will do.

We are not to give sprirtual advice as lay people. We can state the rules of the CC,

That is not true on any count. CC teachings are spiritual advice. They are the minimum that we must do to live according to God’s will. Many saints gave spiritual advice as lay people. In fact, it is a spiritual work of mercy to do so.

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but as we all know, many good orthodox priests are suggesting ABC in extreme circumstances. We do not have the final authority to say that this is wrong in every case. The Holy Spirit guides our clergy and it’s up to God.**

Again, a priest giving advice directly contrary to church teachings (which surely you are not suggesting is not the final authority or guided by the Holy Spirit?!) rather brings in to question whether it is proper to use adjectives such as “good” and “orthodox”.

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Oh and the Holy Spirit guides us lay folks too.

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What is right is determined by God, who guides the church.

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Whether we follow Him or His Church is up to us as indidivuals with free will.

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Just because a priest or a person or even the entire known universe were to decide to disagree with God or His Church, that doesn’t make it okay or right or good to do it.

One advantage would be that it is easier to learn NFP before you get married because if you’re abstinent, you won’t confuse cervical mucus with seminal residue. So if you learn it before marriage, you’ll be able to use right away if your circumstances change drastically.

nope. not true in any method that I’m aware of.

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If it’s been more than a couple years since you took the course, it’s highly recommended you abstain for 3 months while you learn it again to be sure you understand the actual application of it. Could be wrong, but I do beleive that’s the case.

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So let’s say after 4 more kids I decide to use NFP pretty strictly to avoid for serious reasons of my own, it would be strongly advised that I abstain for 3 months while I get used to interpreting my charts to avoid misreading them and having a pregnancy result.

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So if you mean it can be used right away as in you can right away decide to abstain for a few months, then well yes you can do that.

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but no, you can’t suddenly take a couple weeks of charting and feel a strong assurance about how to read it for times to avoid pregnancy during those weeks.

 

[nodito]

nope. not true in any method that I’m aware of.

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If it’s been more than a couple years since you took the course, it’s highly recommended you abstain for 3 months while you learn it again to be sure you understand the actual application of it. Could be wrong, but I do beleive that’s the case.

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So let’s say after 4 more kids I decide to use NFP pretty strictly to avoid for serious reasons of my own, it would be strongly advised that I abstain for 3 months while I get used to interpreting my charts to avoid misreading them and having a pregnancy result.

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So if you mean it can be used right away as in you can right away decide to abstain for a few months, then well yes you can do that.

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but no, you can’t suddenly take a couple weeks of charting and feel a strong assurance about how to read it for times to avoid pregnancy during those weeks.

While I’d certainly recommend a refresher course for couples who haven’t been charting or practicing NFP for many years and suddenly find themselves in a position where they need to use it, it’s also possible for circumstances to change drastically even within the first year of marriage. I’m not familiar with any method that recommends that married couples abstain for three months while they’re learning. Sympto-thermal as taught by CCL recommends abstaining the first month until Phase III (so a few weeks) and Creighton recommends 1 month.

Observing fertility signs is sort of like learning to ride a bike; once you know how and have some practice at it, you never really forget how to do it. I think there are times when additional courses are helpful, for example, postpartum or pre-monopausal or if it’s been a long time, but if a single woman was familiar with observing and charting cervical mucus before marriage, she shouldn’t need three months of abstinence to relearn it later.

 

[Bluegoat]

I echo what Jennifer said. I would absolutely help you if I were near you. But I wonder if I were in your parish, would I know that you needed help? Your post has really gotten me thinking since you posted it. You are absolutely right. I don’t believe the Church offers much assistance for large families that are being faithful to the Church’s teachings on ABC and are struggling. I nearly died after I had my fourth baby from kidney problems and our family business was bringing in only hundreds of dollar a month (not enough to support us certainly). My husband was on the verge of a nervous breakdown from all the stress. My parents helped us, but nobody in the Church helped us. But I’m pretty certain that nobody in the Church knew we needed help. Our suffering was largely hidden.

So, perhaps the failing is twofold… there isn’t a good organized system of helping families, but maybe people don’t reach out enough, either. I have been thinking of starting an Elizabeth Ministry; maybe this would be a good way of reaching out to mothers and families in my area.

Are not deacons and priests supposed to make visits and know about the welfare of the parishioners? Or in some churches there are women’s groups that do this. It’s an important ministry, but perhaps neglected.

 

[anna1978]

There could be other issues. Have they checked your cervical mucus? Sometimes the mucus itself could be too acidic, making it harmful to your hubby’s swimmers. There are other things they could check as well.

Thank you Jenny. The thing is, here in Britain on the NHS (National Health Service) they won’t do anything for us, as I’m 38 and have 2 children already. They said I could pay privately for IVF (=NO WAY!!!), but otherwise it’s very much ‘stop moaning, you’ve got 2!’. Which is true…but …we’d love more kids… Just out of interest, is there anything I could take for 'too acidic mucus? I only really have LOTS of mucus 1 or 2 days of my cycle anyway…

 

[mom24boys]

Are not deacons and priests supposed to make visits and know about the welfare of the parishioners? Or in some churches there are women’s groups that do this. It’s an important ministry, but perhaps neglected.

I never got a call from a deacon or a priest. Perhaps the priest shortage has something to do with this. And sometimes I would tell people at church about our situation, but nobody actually ever offered to help… they just basically said “oh I’m so sorry you’re going through that”. The only people who helped us were the women in my (Protestant) nutrition/cooking group. They brought meals after I had my baby and after I had my surgeries. That was very helpful. My parents helped us financially a couple of times… also very helpful. I know there are people who have even less support than that… it sounds like Deanna is struggling greatly and even more than I did.

 

[Jennifer_J]

Thank you Jenny. The thing is, here in Britain on the NHS (National Health Service) they won’t do anything for us, as I’m 38 and have 2 children already. They said I could pay privately for IVF (=NO WAY!!!), but otherwise it’s very much ‘stop moaning, you’ve got 2!’. Which is true…but …we’d love more kids… Just out of interest, is there anything I could take for 'too acidic mucus? I only really have LOTS of mucus 1 or 2 days of my cycle anyway…

I’d recommend the book Fertility, Cycles and Nutrition by Marilyn Shannon
amazon.com/Fertility-Cycles-Nutrition-Marilyn-Shannon/dp/0926412094

 

[Jesuslives]

My point is that there is nothing more that I can do. My physical and emotional health is failing, and there are nine little people (two with special needs) who are completely dependent on me. I can not take on anything else–not another child, not complete abstainance, NOTHING. As far as I can tell, the Church can’t offer a solution.

I could be wrong but I am pretty sure that I read if the woman is in danger she can use other means of birth control. So I may be just jumping in here, but my mom also had a problem with NFP and sort of thought the Church was making her feel bad but because of her health she could not use NFP. And then I remember reading that alt. birth control can be used if there is a health condition that makes it important to abstain from having a child.

 

[agapewolf]

I could be wrong but I am pretty sure that I read if the woman is in danger she can use other means of birth control. So I may be just jumping in here, but my mom also had a problem with NFP and sort of thought the Church was making her feel bad but because of her health she could not use NFP. And then I remember reading that alt. birth control can be used if there is a health condition that makes it important to abstain from having a child.

No, this is not true. It is acceptable to use NFP to avoid pregnancy if there are health reasons to avoid pregnancy.

You are probably mixing it up with if a woman uses some kind of hormonal treatment for medication, and the side effect is infertility…that is morally acceptable (although highly debatable whether there is ever this case with the knowledge of napro technology).

If someone has problems charting because of irregularities, then many times (not all the time, but many times) that is showing that there are* irregularities*…health issues, that should be looked at. When I first charted, I had a very difficult time…but it was because I had health issues. Got those fixed and now charting is easy. I know this isn’t always the case, but it is often.

 

[Jenny_Z]

Thank you Jenny. The thing is, here in Britain on the NHS (National Health Service) they won’t do anything for us, as I’m 38 and have 2 children already. They said I could pay privately for IVF (=NO WAY!!!), but otherwise it’s very much ‘stop moaning, you’ve got 2!’. Which is true…but …we’d love more kids… Just out of interest, is there anything I could take for 'too acidic mucus? I only really have LOTS of mucus 1 or 2 days of my cycle anyway…

Oh that’s such a bummer

I’ve read a few things… most suggest that a diet high in dairy and/or vitamin C can cause it, as well as some medications. Evening Primrose Oil is a good way to improve it. I had a problem with it as well, and took a nasal expectorant to thin it out, but I think the EPO does the same thing, as well as some other benefits.

Here are a few links:

thelaboroflove.com/articles/causes-of-hostile-cervical-mucus/
early-pregnancy-tests.com/evening-primrose.html

Looks like you should take it from menstruation to ovulation… combine that with NFP, hopefully it’ll help!! (Let me know if it does!)

 

[Bluegoat]

Thank you Jenny. The thing is, here in Britain on the NHS (National Health Service) they won’t do anything for us, as I’m 38 and have 2 children already. They said I could pay privately for IVF (=NO WAY!!!), but otherwise it’s very much ‘stop moaning, you’ve got 2!’. Which is true…but …we’d love more kids… Just out of interest, is there anything I could take for 'too acidic mucus? I only really have LOTS of mucus 1 or 2 days of my cycle anyway…

Have you ever thought that you might be called to adopt? There are so many older kids, or ones with special needs, who need homes.

 

[Bluegoat]

I never got a call from a deacon or a priest. Perhaps the priest shortage has something to do with this. And sometimes I would tell people at church about our situation, but nobody actually ever offered to help… they just basically said “oh I’m so sorry you’re going through that”. The only people who helped us were the women in my (Protestant) nutrition/cooking group. They brought meals after I had my baby and after I had my surgeries. That was very helpful. My parents helped us financially a couple of times… also very helpful. I know there are people who have even less support than that… it sounds like Deanna is struggling greatly and even more than I did.

Yes, I think the priest shortage does have something to do with it, and there aren’t many vocational deacons around.

Many Protestant churches have groups dedicated to just this sort of thing. They keep track of each person in the parish, and make sure they are aware of birthdays, babies, and health problems, or other ways people are struggling. Many are especially involved with elderly parishoners, but not only them.

I always assumed such groups also existed in Catholic Churches. In Anglican ones, it is often the womens group that does this.

 

[kage_ar]

The reasons for me is that it is an invasion of privacy. My wife’s charts are extremely difficult to interpret so we have to go to instructors a lot and share a lot of personal information. Also I really hate having to ask some third party if it is ok if my wife and I make love.

My wife hates having to play in her cervical mucus and fingering herself trying to check her cervix. She also hates getting poked and prodded with instrument after instrument and how much focus is required every day to try and make this **** work. Basically NFP is as attractive as collecting and examining stool samples and getting a medical exam for foreplay.

It is also very frustrating that none of this works. We have had sex once in the past 6 months and she gets pregnant, and it seemed like a really safe day at the time. We just can’t catch a break.

The attitude here comes off as childish and uninformed.

I am going to assume you are using the STM. No one has to “play in cervical mucous” - a quick swipe and check the toilet paper, takes about 3 seconds. Far less than a woman does in basic cleaning of her body every day.

If she does not like to check her cervix, or taking temps, use a different method. I have used NFP to avoid for more than a dozen years, have never taken a temp or checked my cervix.

To compare the observations of your wife’s fertility to bowel movements is disturbing, maybe some counseling would be in line. The female fertility body, her organs and the way they work, is a beautiful part of God’s creation.

 

[ac_claire]

I could be wrong but I am pretty sure that I read if the woman is in danger she can use other means of birth control.

No, if pregnancy would put a woman’s life in danger then she must abstain from sex. (Or practice NFP which is, obviously, more of a risk.) I just worry a bit about lurkers reading this thread, and want to echo the others and make clear what the Church believes and teaches: artificial birth control is intrinsically evil and is NEVER justified.

 

[ac_claire]

Here are a few of the documents for anyone who’s interested:

The Church has always taught the intrinsic evil of contraception, that is, of every marital act intentionally rendered unfruitful. This teaching is to be held as definitive and irreformable. Contraception is gravely opposed to marital chastity, it is contrary to the good of the transmission of life (the procreative.aspect of matrimony), and to the reciprocal self-giving of the spouses (the unitive.aspect of matrimony); it harms true love and denies the sovereign role of God in the transmission of human life. (Vademecum for Confessors 2:4, Feb. 12, 1997).

and:

**“Periodic continence, that is, the methods of birth regulation based on self-observation and the use of infertile periods, is in conformity with the objective criteria of morality. These methods respect the bodies of the spouses, encourage tenderness between them, and favor the education of an authentic freedom. In contrast, “every action which, whether in anticipation of the conjugal act, or in its accomplishment, or in the development of its natural consequences, proposes, whether as an end or as a means, to render procreation impossible” is intrinsically evil.” **(Catechism of the Catholic Church, 2270)

Don’t take my word for it if you have doubts; look it up for yourself.