Use NFP: It Doesn't Work

[ac_claire]

Well, to be fair…Catholics in the US who use NFP are more the exception that Catholics using ABC or who sterilize themselves.

Sadly, vasectomies and other forms of birth control (that aren’t in line with the Magesterium) is quite common conversation in the circle of parents in my oldest DD’s class at our Catholic school…

And personally, I don’t see why it’s a problem for it to be left up to the couple to pray and work with God (in our private interpretation…somehow that seems so negative, but I may not be reading with the greatest amount of Charity) privately to determine whether another child is the plan or not.

I’ll try to explain my problem with it. Ok, do you wonder about the difference, between when NFP was first “introduced” conceptually to the public at large, and now? I just wonder, what exactly has changed? Marriage is the same, NFP is the same (method-wise), all the biological stuff is the same. But what exactly constitutes a just reason for NFP has shifted a bit. Objective standards bow to trends of the pop-culture. This bothers me. I believe the growing acceptance of any reason being a “just” reason completely spits on the concept of having the “just reason clause” in the first place. Like, it’s only in there in the CCC as a formality, as a show. Because the reality is, there doesn’t need to be a just reason, any reason whatsoever will do as long as the couple thinks it’s valid. I’m not comfortable with that for the same reason I’m Catholic, the same reason I’m not comfortable with any kind of relativism or private interpretation of objective truths.

 

[DeannaMarie]

I understand that NFP can be hard from the point of view of actually putting it into practice and being abstinent for periods - and sometimes long ones. But I have to ask - why shouldn’t it be? Isn’t that what the Church demands of single people, priests, or homosexuals? Those whose spouses are unable to have intercourse, or who travel long periods for work?

Perhaps if they taught more clearly taught that abstinence was a requirement for married couples at times it would seem more natural. Even a couple who has no other reason to be abstinent ought to be during times of prayer and fasting. From that point of view, Catholics have it fairly easy, the Orthodox fast about half the year, and are quite clear that means no sex as well as a restricted diet and extra prayer.

My point is that there is nothing more that I can do. My physical and emotional health is failing, and there are nine little people (two with special needs) who are completely dependent on me. I can not take on anything else–not another child, not complete abstainance, NOTHING. As far as I can tell, the Church can’t offer a solution.

 

[ac_claire]

My point is that there is nothing more that I can do. My physical and emotional health is failing, and there are nine little people (two with special needs) who are completely dependent on me. I can not take on anything else–not another child, not complete abstainance, NOTHING. As far as I can tell, the Church can’t offer a solution.

NFP is still an option, even though I understand that your cycles are extremely difficult to chart. The good news is there are so many different methods of NFP so if one, two or three methods don’t work for you, another one will. You were even seeming hopeful a few posts back when you learned about some of the newer NFP methods. With your cycles as they are, any method you use is likely to be confusing and frustrating to start with (as they were for me and I have regular cycles lol), but as you know it’s one of those things that gets easier with time and practice.

Worst case scenario, if you can’t get any NFP method work for you, you can also try complete abstinance for awhile. That, too, won’t be easy but it’s still available, so it’s not quite right to say that the Church has left you without any options.

Forgive me for being blunt here: the attitude/mindset of “I CAN’T have another baby, and the Church has left me with NO options” is IMO a lie from the devil. Don’t believe it. I’ve known couples who ended up sincerely thinking they had no other choice but to use ABC, and their situations were not even near as serious and frustrating as yours. So, my advice is to completely banish that lie from your mind. You do have options.

I’ll be praying for you this next week, that you’ll find some peace and a method of NFP that works for you. I can feel from your posts how frustrated you are…wish there was something more I could do to help. :hug1:

 

[Serap]

My point is that there is nothing more that I can do. My physical and emotional health is failing, and there are nine little people (two with special needs) who are completely dependent on me. I can not take on anything else–not another child, not complete abstainance, NOTHING. As far as I can tell, the Church can’t offer a solution.

My feeling is that you have a just reason to not conceive another child. If NFP is really not working for you then perhaps you should talk to your priest and discern if ABC is an option for you? I’m not saying to use ABC, but I have heard some very good strong priests say that in some extreme circumstances, ABC can be justified even in the CC. Even Fr. Serpa mentioned this is his AAA thread. I don’t have it handy at the moment though.

Look into it, discern, and talk to a good priest.

 

[marymol]

’ Something beautiful for God ’ words often associated with Mo.Teresa …

Our culture that gives such importance to external beauty and also to be able to appreciate the beauty of God’s good earth through extensive travels , could it be telling us the depth of the prophetic words of Mo.Teresa - how that yearning for beauty of the inner type , that of the soul , can be a powerful motivator for much …

Our Lord has spoken to His chosen ones about the beauty of a soul that is in ‘communion’ with the Lord of beauty itself …such as when the soul recieves Him worthily in Holy Communion …

The Church echoes the same message … of much possibilities …of the best and worse type …

The call to be in communion , as He was , while on The Cross , in The Father’s Love …and such possibilities extended to the children … a Bridegroom that would want to adorn the soul too , with beauty , from trusting love and all that comes with it …

Just as physical realities are there to reflect Godly truths , one mysterious truth in this realm may be - the marital act that releases millions of life bearing agents and only one is neeed to bring forth lasting life …in spiritual realm , is that a reflection of a reverse type, such as one choice is enough to destroy much good , such as in the teaching on mortal sin by The Church … the ugliness of the soul that then can have the potential to be an agent of the kingdom of darkness for those around too …

May the souls turned to The Son , His life giving glorifying Way , and pondering on the Christian Mystery of beauty and life , in suffering and death , in love and trust , in The Lord of all good …may it capture our hearts too, as it did the nun from Calcutta who could (?had to !) contemplate beauty in the midst of such misery …

Bl.Mo.Teresa , pray for us all !

 

[Tosk]

My feeling is that you have a just reason to not conceive another child. If NFP is really not working for you then perhaps you should talk to your priest and discern if ABC is an option for you? I’m not saying to use ABC, but I have heard some very good strong priests say that in some extreme circumstances, ABC can be justified even in the CC. Even Fr. Serpa mentioned this is his AAA thread. I don’t have it handy at the moment though.

Look into it, discern, and talk to a good priest.

ABC is taught to be intrinsically disordered and thus never justified even in the most extreme circumstances. Maybe what you are talking about is one spouse allowing the other spouse to use ABC against their wishes.

That being said you will not have that hard of a time finding a priest to recommend ABC. I have actually had 2 very orthodox priests tell me to just use ABC. They said the Church doesn’t give that advice out loud because they don’t want people to misunderstand what they are saying but that ABC isn’t wrong in every case.

 

[Serap]

ABC is taught to be intrinsically disordered and thus never justified even in the most extreme circumstances. Maybe what you are talking about is one spouse allowing the other spouse to use ABC against their wishes.

That being said you will not have that hard of a time finding a priest to recommend ABC. I have actually had 2 very orthodox priests tell me to just use ABC. They said the Church doesn’t give that advice out loud because they don’t want people to misunderstand what they are saying but that ABC isn’t wrong in every case.

For the good of this woman’s soul and her husband’s soul, she needs to discern for herself through prayer and counsel from good priests on what is best for her.

You can hear her plea in her emails. She’s lonely, sad, desparate, stressed, mentally drained and the list goes on. If she’s not happy, then it puts extreme stress on her marriage and her ability to show love to her children. She’s not the only one suffering in this circumstance.

NFP works for me and my husband b/c I have been blessed with a very easy cycle. Not all women have it as easy as me and while for me, ABC would be a mortal sin b/c I have no just reason to even think about ABC. For this suffering woman, it is a completely different story.

I will pray for this woman that she finds inner peace and the help she so needs.

 

[Bluegoat]

My point is that there is nothing more that I can do. My physical and emotional health is failing, and there are nine little people (two with special needs) who are completely dependent on me. I can not take on anything else–not another child, not complete abstainance, NOTHING. As far as I can tell, the Church can’t offer a solution.

I think the Church has fallen down terribly in helping you. The biggest problem is not, perhaps NFP or abstinence, it’s the other demands on you, which are more than a person can handle. I’m assuming that you don’t have any family that can or will help more nearby and the social programs are all tapped out for you?

Have you spoken to the priest? People do tend to assume you are coping unless they get told otherwise. What does your husband think?

 

[Jenny_Z]

Have you tried contacting the Pope Paul VI institute? They usually specialize in getting women pregnant, but I’m absolutely sure they would help you with NFP methods. They teach several, specifically to women who have a difficult time charting. It might be worth giving them a call, just to see what they have to say. They’ll find a doc in your area that can help you out.

popepaulvi.com/

I didn’t go to them specifically, but I can say that it is possible to use NFP with a hard-to-chart cycle. I have polycystic ovaries, so some months I ovulate, and some I don’t, sometimes my cycle is 60 days long. It’s a big pain, but it is possible to deal with. I’m sure they could help you out!

 

[Tosk]

For the good of this woman’s soul and her husband’s soul, she needs to discern for herself through prayer and counsel from good priests on what is best for her.

You can hear her plea in her emails. She’s lonely, sad, desparate, stressed, mentally drained and the list goes on. If she’s not happy, then it puts extreme stress on her marriage and her ability to show love to her children. She’s not the only one suffering in this circumstance.

NFP works for me and my husband b/c I have been blessed with a very easy cycle. Not all women have it as easy as me and while for me, ABC would be a mortal sin b/c I have no just reason to even think about ABC. For this suffering woman, it is a completely different story.

I will pray for this woman that she finds inner peace and the help she so needs.

I think most priests will recommend ABC as the lesser of two evils in her circumstances. I am just pointing out that the official teaching is that ABC is never permitted. There seems to me to be a ultra secret teaching dispensed to priests that ABC is permitted in certain circumstances, but shhhhhh don’t tell anyone. Either that or many priests and laity simply dissent with the teaching of the Church.

Using ABC might be the lesser of two evils if your marriage is falling apart, you are ignoring your children, and up to your neck in responsibilities but the Church never advises people to do the lesser of two evils. In that case the only thing that can be advised is complete abstinence.

 

[lifeisbeautiful]

For the good of this woman’s soul and her husband’s soul, she needs to discern for herself through prayer and counsel from good priests on what is best for her.

You can hear her plea in her emails. She’s lonely, sad, desparate, stressed, mentally drained and the list goes on. If she’s not happy, then it puts extreme stress on her marriage and her ability to show love to her children. She’s not the only one suffering in this circumstance.

NFP works for me and my husband b/c I have been blessed with a very easy cycle. Not all women have it as easy as me and while for me, ABC would be a mortal sin b/c I have no just reason to even think about ABC. For this suffering woman, it is a completely different story.

I will pray for this woman that she finds inner peace and the help she so needs.

Serap, I am sorry, but ABC used to avoid children is always wrong, always… always. Its a very clear Church teaching. It has nothing to do with just or unjust reasons to use it to avoid children. The Church’s teachings are there to help us see what is best, even if at times we may not understand them. Using ABC to avoid children is not good, there is no way around it. Not to mention, that with ABC there is always a chance of getting pregnant too, so not only is it not moral but it can fail.

DeannaMarie, my heart goes out to you. I have been thinking about the list you wrote, and although I have no idea how to help you, aside from praying for you, I was wondering… and this might be a moment for me to “stuff my mouth with chocolate” like Rob’s wife said , instead of suggesting something, but well I was thinking… I know you are super busy and don’t have much time, but could you contact your parish office, if not your priest and ask him if there are any programs in your Church where someone could come and help you on a weekly, bi-weekly or even just a couple of hours a month or something? I know a lot of high school students have to fulfill a certain amount of community service. If there aren’t any programs, could you ask him to see if please there is anyone willing to set up something? or if he knows of someone (perhaps a retired senior, etc) that might be able to do it? Are there any women’s/girls’ organizations in your parish that you could contact for help? We have some groups in our parish that I have seen plan visits to sick people etc, and they would probably come up with something to help someone like you. Is there any govmnt program, maybe you can contact someone to see? I know all of this is a lot of work, but it was just some ideas that came to mind. If nothing else, ask God to please help you carry your crosses, that you cannot do this alone, and that He knows He won’t give you more than you can handle, but you need His help to be able to handle it. If there is anything I can do for you please let me know!

 

[Serap]

I think most priests will recommend ABC as the lesser of two evils in her circumstances. I am just pointing out that the official teaching is that ABC is never permitted. There seems to me to be a ultra secret teaching dispensed to priests that ABC is permitted in certain circumstances, but shhhhhh don’t tell anyone. Either that or many priests and laity simply dissent with the teaching of the Church.

Using ABC might be the lesser of two evils if your marriage is falling apart, you are ignoring your children, and up to your neck in responsibilities but the Church never advises people to do the lesser of two evils. In that case the only thing that can be advised is complete abstinence.

All respect to you Tosk, but this is up to this lady, the counsel of good priests, her conscience and ultimately God.

We are not to give sprirtual advice as lay people. We can state the rules of the CC, but as we all know, many good orthodox priests are suggesting ABC in extreme circumstances. We do not have the final authority to say that this is wrong in every case. The Holy Spirit guides our clergy and it’s up to God.

 

[Tosk]

Just curious, why/how do you think NFP is humiliating?

The reasons for me is that it is an invasion of privacy. My wife’s charts are extremely difficult to interpret so we have to go to instructors a lot and share a lot of personal information. Also I really hate having to ask some third party if it is ok if my wife and I make love.

My wife hates having to play in her cervical mucus and fingering herself trying to check her cervix. She also hates getting poked and prodded with instrument after instrument and how much focus is required every day to try and make this **** work. Basically NFP is as attractive as collecting and examining stool samples and getting a medical exam for foreplay.

It is also very frustrating that none of this works. We have had sex once in the past 6 months and she gets pregnant, and it seemed like a really safe day at the time. We just can’t catch a break.

 

[Rob_s_Wife]

All joking aside from my previous joke of not being able to abstain; I agree with you that occassional abstinence is a good thing. I know that when I finally gave NFP a real chance, I began to appreciate the times that I could be with my husband more. The temporary break gave me something to look forward to. It also felt more like making love instead of just sexual gratification.

My point is that there is nothing more that I can do. My physical and emotional health is failing, and there are nine little people (two with special needs) who are completely dependent on me. I can not take on anything else–not another child, not complete abstainance, NOTHING. As far as I can tell, the Church can’t offer a solution.

** But the Church does offer a solution - you can simply abstain. Either for a short time, or for a much longer time. and honestly, it sounds liek abstaining worked for you. Is there not an option to lovingly sit down with your husband and tell him you need a break? That you need to heal and regroup and simply cannot handle the demands of sex right now? Say 6 months? And then discuss it again after that time?Surely if you are this stressed, he is too? Honestly, when I get that stressed, sex is the last thing I want anyways.**

Worst case scenario, if you can’t get any NFP method work for you, you can also try complete abstinance for awhile. That, too, won’t be easy but it’s still available, so it’s not quite right to say that the Church has left you without any options.

Forgive me for being blunt here: the attitude/mindset of “I CAN’T have another baby, and the Church has left me with NO options” is IMO a lie from the devil. Don’t believe it. I’ve known couples who ended up sincerely thinking they had no other choice but to use ABC, and their situations were not even near as serious and frustrating as yours. So, my advice is to completely banish that lie from your mind. You do have options.

I’ll be praying for you this next week, that you’ll find some peace and a method of NFP that works for you. I can feel from your posts how frustrated you are…wish there was something more I could do to help.

I agree.

NFP works for me and my husband b/c I have been blessed with a very easy cycle. Not all women have it as easy as me and while for me, ABC would be a mortal sin b/c I have no just reason to even think about ABC. For this suffering woman, it is a completely different story.

That’s called situational ethics. It doesn’t apply to mortal sin. If something is a mortal sin, why a person does it really doesn’t matter.

I will pray for this woman that she finds inner peace and the help she so needs.

Okay. Now I’m just getting mad for this woman. You know what? birth control will NOT HELP THIS WOMAN! It will not give her a friend to talk to, it will not help clean house or make meals, it will not do anything helpful for her at all. Telling a drowning woman (her words) to just use birth control is tantamount to tossing a hormonal tictac at a man lost at sea. How the heck is that supposed to “help” them get their feet on dry land?

I think the Church has fallen down terribly in helping you. The biggest problem is not, perhaps NFP or abstinence, it’s the other demands on you, which are more than a person can handle. I’m assuming that you don’t have any family that can or will help more nearby and the social programs are all tapped out for you?

Have you spoken to the priest? People do tend to assume you are coping unless they get told otherwise. What does your husband think?

Exactly. I highly recommend setting aside the entire issue of sex for the next 6 months and focus solely on getting some help. Call the parish and ASK. Seriously people are often completely oblivious to the needs of others. You could be floundering around at the deep end of the pool and they just think you must love splashing around. You have to actually say you need help. You don’t need birth control - you need meals, conversation, maybe a margarita.

I too am curious as to what your dh is saying and doing about this? Have you considered posting in the church bulletin or calling the diocese to see if there are other mothers like you that would like to get together for support and encouragement? Do you home school? I ask because frankly, my fellow home schoolers have been awesome at helping each other. Many times I’ve been able to call them to do things others have family for. There’s a strong mindset that with the kids gone to school more of the days of the year, a mom such as yourself doesn’t need help - which is blarney.

I’m going to add you to our rosary that the true help you need comes to your family. I suggest praying to St. Simeon. You need someone to help you carry your cross!

 

[Tosk]

All respect to you Tosk, but this is up to this lady, the counsel of good priests, her conscience and ultimately God.

We are not to give sprirtual advice as lay people. We can state the rules of the CC, but as we all know, many good orthodox priests are suggesting ABC in extreme circumstances. We do not have the final authority to say that this is wrong in every case. The Holy Spirit guides our clergy and it’s up to God.

Yes, but good orthodox priests are not protected from error by the Holy Spirit. Only the Magisterium is protected and guided by the Holy Spirit and they are already committed. There is no turning back now after the Church has said for centuries that ABC is always wrong.

Take this for example from JPII
*
"If it should be declared that contraception is not evil in itself, then we should have to concede frankly that the Holy Spirit had been on the side of the Protestant churches in 1930 (when the encyclical Casti Connubii was promulgated), in 1951 (Pius XlI’s address to the midwives), and in 1958 (the address delivered before the Society of Hematologists in the year the pope died). It should likewise have to be admitted that for a half century the Spirit failed to protect Pius XI, Pius XII, and a large part of the Catholic hierarchy from a very serious error.

This would mean that the leaders of the Church, acting with extreme imprudence, had condemned thousands of innocent human acts, forbidding, under pain of eternal damnation, a practice which would now be sanctioned. The fact can neither be denied nor ignored that these same acts would now be declared licit on the grounds of principles cited by the Protestants, which popes and bishops have either condemned or at least not approved"*

The Church can not just turn around and say ooops we were wrong about that whole ABC thing and still continue to exist.

 

[nodito]

We are not to give sprirtual advice as lay people. We can state the rules of the CC, but as we all know, many good orthodox priests are suggesting ABC in extreme circumstances. We do not have the final authority to say that this is wrong in every case. The Holy Spirit guides our clergy and it’s up to God.

Serap, I appreciate the respect and trust you have for the clergy, but it is not incorrect (nor is it considered “spiritual advice”) to say to someone that contraception is always wrong. This is what the Church teaches and the fact that some priests will tell you otherwise is very sad. I think maybe you are mistaking this “extreme situation” for some other questions which have come up recently in the AA forum:

1. If a Catholic person has a spouse who refuses to have non-contraceptive sex, then the Catholic person may consent to sex for the good of the marriage as long as the Catholic person makes it known that s/he believes contraception is wrong and tries to convince the spouse to stop using it. In these cases, it is never licit for the Catholic party to use contraception (i.e., a Catholic woman may not take the Pill to prevent pregnancy simply because her husband doesn’t trust NFP)
2. If a woman has a medical condition that requires medication for treatment, then she may take this medication even if she can foresee that it will make her temporarily infertile, as long as the infertility isn’t the reason she is taking the medication. In other words, if she needs medicine to get better, she can take the medicine. If she needs to prevent pregnancy for health reasons, she needs to learn NFP or practice complete abstinence.

That’s it. Those are the only two situations in which the Church teaches it is licit to “use” contraceptives. The Holy Spirit guides and sustains the Church. If orthodox priests are deciding something about contraception other than what the Church teaches, then they are not hearing the Holy Spirit.

Consider as an anology another even great sin: murder. What if you were able to find a priest, who, in good conscience, believed it was acceptable for a woman as overwhelmed as DeannaMarie to commit infanticide or kill a couple of her children? This is an extreme example, but I don’t think you would consider it “spiritual advice” for a lay person to say to to her that killing children is always wrong. This is taught unequivically by the Church. So too with contraception, which is a great evil and always intrinsically disordered. A person can never willfully decide to render the sexual act infertile and to suggest otherwise is to tempt women like DeanneMarie who are genuinely struggling and looking for options.

God bless.

 

[marymol]

8/11 - today is also Feast of St.Clare , a model of the purity and power of the Eucharist - to make good men better , good women , more beautiful… …to dispel agents motivated through hatreds , hatred of self that starts with sin and becomes a spiraling whirlpool that tries to draw in all in its path … leading to such displays of its destructive power as in 9/11 …

and how the merciful power of Holy Love in communion can undo same …

interesting too how those in the know seem to attribute certain cases of infertility to supernatural causes …where exorcism is said to benefit ( true , every Holy Mass is too an occasion of powerful warfare against dark powers ! ) and would it be erroneus when unusual difficulties are met with in following Church guidelines , to discern whteher there are complicating powers and try to deal with same…not by giving into them to reinforce their power but turning to Source of all Good !

Sts Clare and Francis, pray for us !

Peace !

 

[Consecrated]

but yeah, it was like a foregone conclusion that we would use it. And when I expressed ititial frustration at having to take the course, it was assumed I felt that way because I was planning on using ABC instead.

This was our experience, too, although the course was not mandatory. It was just expected that we would take it… all our peers were shocked when we didn’t. we were like …ummm we don’t see NFP as necessary to a beautiful, lasting marriage. we’ve made our decision to let go and let God, and unless our circumstances change drastically, why would we “need” the course?

 

[nodito]

we’ve made our decision to let go and let God, and unless our circumstances change drastically, why would we “need” the course?

One advantage would be that it is easier to learn NFP before you get married because if you’re abstinent, you won’t confuse cervical mucus with seminal residue. So if you learn it before marriage, you’ll be able to use right away if your circumstances change drastically. Moreover, it can help a couple achieve pregnancy if they find that difficult. I’m a big proponent of NFP. To each his own, I guess…

 

[Jennifer_J]

My point is that there is nothing more that I can do. My physical and emotional health is failing, and there are nine little people (two with special needs) who are completely dependent on me. I can not take on anything else–not another child, not complete abstainance, NOTHING. As far as I can tell, the Church can’t offer a solution.

I want to ask this as gently as possible (because if I were near you, and knew you needed help I’d be there ASAP), but have you asked anyone for help? Have you approached your priest, called your Parish offices, talked to your friends/family about the help you need? It seems to me counter productive to say the Church hasn’t offered help if they have no idea you need it. If you are embarrassed to call and ask for yourself, pm me your info and I’ll call for you, I’m serious. We all see you need help, we would all love to help you, but most of us are not near you. We can pray for you. We can remember to check on those in our own parishes who might need help (and do it in your honor).