VA Tech Shooting: What can we possibly do?

[Rach620]

I’m not sure if this is the right forum, so mods, feel free to move it.

I’m a college student at another university, several hundred miles away from Virginia Tech, but similar in the fact that we’re in a small town with a ‘bubble’-like atmosphere that makes us feel safe.

Going to class this morning, I was surprised, first of all, by the reactions of my professors–both of whom took the time before class began to ask us how we felt and to reflect on the tragedy. Both were visibly shaken…one took a moment to pray for those who died yesterday “doing what we are about to do right now, learn, in a classroom.”

I know that a lot of people are criticizing the VT administration for not doing enough to stop the massacre, especially after the first shooting began…but imagining the situation at my university, I’m not even sure what they could do.

Email seems to be the *only *way that they can be sure of reaching us–but that is by no means immediate contact, and there can always be great delays in delivery. I’m pretty sure that the university doesn’t have all of our cell-phone numbers (and not everyone even has a cell), so they couldn’t contact us that way. There are no university-sponsored dorm phones, and many students live off campus. There is no PA system whatsoever that covers the whole campus, nor do I think that there are PA systems in any of the academic buildings.

I can imagine the university putting some/most of the buildings on lockdown, but as far as notifying the student body as to what is going on, I am at a loss. It’s like attempting to shut down a small city in a very short period of time–the only thing that I can think of is to have some sort of siren go off, but that might make the psychopath on a rampage even angrier and deadlier.

How do we, especially college students, protect ourselves from this insanity? Can we–at all?

[mod note: it is OK to leave thread here]

 

[patrick53gohl]

Alot of people are asking “how " can we stop this or what can we do? Well, it seems that we should be showing " compassion " to those who are alone , scared , from a foreign country looking for the american dream and only being shunned, You might say quite quickly that it was a random act but what precipitated the attack? We should all take a real hard look and see what has been created as the american dream and why the immmigrants that come here aren’t always getting a fair share. I’m not in any way condoning what happened. It is a travesty and my heart goes out to all with great sympathy. I have no children and can’t even fathom what it would be like to send them off to a secure place for education and then for this to happen.
" You will have trouble in the world, but I have overcome the world”
The sooner we believe this a better world we will have. Again I say the answerr is " COMPASSION "
The lonliest people on the earth tonight must be the family of the assailant. Let’s say a prayer for them as well as those that lost their lives.
peace everyone
my love to all of you
God bless
patrick

 

[Robert_Bay]

MOD NOTE

It is OK to leave it here.

 

[stbruno]

I don’t know what can be done short of having some kind of intercom system throughout the campus and also on loudspeakers through campus…
Most professors required us to shut off our electronic equipment so it doesnt disrupt the classroom, so an email or a cellphone message would not immediately get picked up.

Maybe flashing lights in corridors that would indicate we should now turn on our electronic equipment. That will definitely have to still need to be discussed.

But in the meantime, I got this link how we can help in some small way…particularly by prayers but also in this way…
http://www.youthpolicyactioncenter.org/_data/n_0005/images/YPACLogo.jpgVirginia Tech Shootings: Be Heard!
Posted by: Youth Policy Action Center
We were all shocked and saddened by the tragedy at Virginia Tech.
As administrators of the Youth Policy Action Center, we rarely post alerts we write ourselves – instead, we seek to provide you access to the best, balanced alerts created by the leading organizations in the child and youth field.
But today we are moved to take action ourselves: from April 17 through April 24, all net proceeds donated to YPAC (less administrative costs like processing credit cards) will be bundled and given to Virginia Tech’s Cook Counseling Center.

Click here to donate

 

[Thekla]

I teach in a middle school and it’s disturbing even to do the drills for threats on campus. My suggestion for a college campus is to do what my city does when it snows; sound the old air raid sirens. They can be heard all over town.

 

[Cat]

How practical and useful would it be for schools (all ages, from pre-school through college) to lock the doors of their classrooms once the class starts?

I would have stopped the young man from entering the classrooms. Yes, he still could have picked off people who were walking outside. But at least he couldn’t just walk in and kill a roomfull of people.

My husband’s reaction to this question is, “Do you want to live in a prison?”

I guess I don’t consider locked classrooms a prison.

 

[gilliam]

Best advice I have heard all day is to allow faculty to carry guns and offer incentives for those who do and are fully trained.

 

[Nohome]

My suggestion for a college campus is to do what my city does when it snows; sound the old air raid sirens. They can be heard all over town.

I work at a large university. I’ve seen student’s reactions to alarms, warnings and PA systems. They are ignored. Students live in a world where risk and injury is glorified. MTV has shows like “Jackass” and “Scarred” and YouTube shows people getting injured as entertainment.

The Church has the “Culture of Life” and I suppose it could be extended to a “Culture of Safety”. We need to teach young people to embrace and value life enough so that they protect it.

I do not criticize the administration of VT. You can’t plan for every contingency. Locking down a university is like locking down a city, simply impossible.

Nohome

 

[Nohome]

My husband’s reaction to this question is, “Do you want to live in a prison?”

I guess I don’t consider locked classrooms a prison.

“Those willing to trade their freedom for security deserve neither and will lose both”

Ben Franklin (attributed)

 

[gilliam]

“Those willing to trade their freedom for security deserve neither and will lose both”

Ben Franklin (attributed)

Point of information (maybe useless information):

The phrase is "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor S****afety" ** and** Franklyn published the work but didn’t write it. The phrase itself was first used in a letter from the Pennsylvania Assembly dated November 11, 1755 to the Governor of Pennsylvania. Researchers now believe that a fellow diplomat by the name of Richard Jackson is the primary author of the book. With the information thus far available the issue of authorship of the statement is not yet definitely resolved, but the evidence indicates it was very likely Franklin, who in the Poor Richard’s Almanack of 1738 is known to have written a similar proverb: “Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, nor Liberty to purchase power.”

reference

 

[Dale_M]

The lonliest people on the earth tonight must be the family of the assailant. Let’s say a prayer for them as well as those that lost their lives.

Bless you for pointing this out.

As for how students can best protect themselves, perhaps there is a lesson in the actions of the passengers of United Airlines Flight 93. When hijacked by terrorists, and their apparent fate became known, they acted together to take down their attackers.

When the shooter entered a classroom, some of the students could have thrown books at him while others rushed him.

Of course, its easy to say this after the fact. And it would be much harder to do on the spur of the moment, without planning. But it would also be better than simply being a victim.

 

[gilliam]

The parents of mass killer Cho Seung-hi were hospitalised with shock and had not attempted suicide, contrary to reports in Korean media.
Korea’s Yonhap news agency reported that Cho’s parents, who ran a dry cleaning shop in Centreville, Virginia, had been hospitalised after learning of ther son’s killing rampage at Virginia Tech University.

(Excerpt) Read more at news.ninemsn.com.au …

 

[vern_humphrey]

There was a famous school shooting in Israel, at Ma’alot, when terrorists broke into the school. As a result of that, Israeli teachers are armed.

In Virginia, anyone over the age of 21 and with no criminal record can get a Concealed Carry permit. But guns are not allowed on campus. So only the killer was armed, and he knew all his intended victims would be unarmed.

When looking at how this massacre could have been prevented, look to those who think people should not be allowed to defend themselves.

 

[seekerz]

Some of the suggestion make sense but they have their drawbacks:

Lock the doors - you could be locking the killer/killers inside the classroom with their potential victims. If he knew that doors were usually locked, all he’d have to do is slip in with weapons concealed like he was coming to class!

Arm the faculty - Not without extensive training and psychological work-up like the police get. We’re assuming that pyschopaths only exist among the student population…

Allow concealed weapons: Not without the training outlined above. Just look at the chaos/false alarms that’s happened at many schools since this incident. How many more deaths from “panic” shooting would we have had if loads of people out there were packing weapons.

What can we really do? Pray, love the lonely and outcasts and remember, whatever happens there’s life beyond this one. It would help to tone down mass media reporting (like is done for suicides) so there’ll be less copy-cats.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Some of the suggestion make sense but they have their drawbacks:

Lock the doors - you could be locking the killer/killers inside the classroom with their potential victims. If he knew that doors were usually locked, all he’d have to do is slip in with weapons concealed like he was coming to class!

Arm the faculty - Not without extensive training and psychological work-up like the police get. We’re assuming that pyschopaths only exist among the student population…

Allow concealed weapons: Not without the training outlined above. Just look at the chaos/false alarms that’s happened at many schools since this incident. How many more deaths from “panic” shooting would we have had if loads of people out there were packing weapons.

What can we really do? Pray, love the lonely and outcasts and remember, whatever happens there’s life beyond this one. It would help to tone down mass media reporting (like is done for suicides) so there’ll be less copy-cats.

The training required to get a concealed carry permit has proven adequate – state after state (38 all told) have one day sessions for Concealed Carry, and crime and accidents have gone down, not up.

The students at Virginia Tech – those 21 or over and with no criminal record can get a concealed carry license – they just can’t carry on campus. As a result, the killer was the only armed person and his victims were helpless.

Victim disarmament doesn’t work – it merely facilitates the commission of crimes like this.

 

[seekerz]

The training required to get a concealed carry permit has proven adequate – state after state (38 all told) have one day sessions for Concealed Carry, and crime and accidents have gone down, not up.

The students at Virginia Tech – those 21 or over and with no criminal record can get a concealed carry license – they just can’t carry on campus. As a result, the killer was the only armed person and his victims were helpless.

Victim disarmament doesn’t work – it merely facilitates the commission of crimes like this.

Sorry, but I remain unconvinced. It’s one thing to have a gun in your home to protect against robbers or one in your bag to protect against muggers and carrying a gun into a situation such as happened at Va Tech. Would they wait till someone started shooting or would they shoot first? How would they assess the threat? What measures would they take to minimize injury to panicked people running around in the same room with the victim? Lastly, can all of this be taught to a teenager/professor in one day?

This guy was not just mentally ill but intelligent, something which those who advocate allowing concealed weapons on campus are overlooking. I just heard someone say on TV that the only thing that can stop a determined killer is a loaded gun. I beg to disagree. A determined intelligent killer would find a different weapon if he knew his potential victims were likely carrying guns. We have to find a way to screen for potential killers and get them the help that commonsense dictates.

 

[Biblioassistant]

This guy was not just mentally ill but intelligent, something which those who advocate allowing concealed weapons on campus are overlooking. I just heard someone say on TV that the only thing that can stop a determined killer is a loaded gun. I beg to disagree. A determined intelligent killer would find a different weapon if he knew his potential victims were likely carrying guns. We have to find a way to screen for potential killers and get them the help that commonsense dictates.

Maybe, but someone armed with only a knife or bludgeon can’t kill as many people as someone with a gun, and he might be deterred if he knew his potential victims were armed.

Also, the federal privacy laws make it VERY hard for outsiders to get disturbed and troubled students help. Evidently this guy’s teachers were very upset with his writings and actions, but there was little they could do except urge him to go to the counselor.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Sorry, but I remain unconvinced. It’s one thing to have a gun in your home to protect against robbers or one in your bag to protect against muggers and carrying a gun into a situation such as happened at Va Tech. Would they wait till someone started shooting or would they shoot first? How would they assess the threat? What measures would they take to minimize injury to panicked people running around in the same room with the victim? Lastly, can all of this be taught to a teenager/professor in one day?

This guy was not just mentally ill but intelligent, something which those who advocate allowing concealed weapons on campus are overlooking. I just heard someone say on TV that the only thing that can stop a determined killer is a loaded gun. I beg to disagree. A determined intelligent killer would find a different weapon if he knew his potential victims were likely carrying guns. We have to find a way to screen for potential killers and get them the help that commonsense dictates.

What part of, “The killer was armed, but his victims were not” did you not understand?

And again I point out, those students who cannot carry on campus can carry off campus (that is, those over 21 with no criminal records). And when they do, nothing bad happens.

Those who oppose allowing citizens to carry conveniently overlook the good record that liberalized concealed carry laws have establised in 40 states over the last quarter of a century.

 

[seekerz]

I totally agree with you about privacy laws. Really, is there some reason the university could not have compelled him to get professional help on threat of expulsion from the dorm (considering the fire, the suicide threat and complaints of stalking)? Human pyschology is one place where the “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it rule” does not apply; we need to fix what appears to be about to break before it does.

 

[vern_humphrey]

I totally agree with you about privacy laws. Really, is there some reason the university could not have compelled him to get professional help on threat of expulsion from the dorm (considering the fire, the suicide threat and complaints of stalking)? Human pyschology is one place where the “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it rule” does not apply; we need to fix what appears to be about to break before it does.

Many of his acts were crimes. But take it from a parent who had a daughter at Virginia Tech, the last thing the university wants to do is charge a student with a crime. Bad publicity, you know.