Vatican’s McCarrick report says Pope John Paul II knew of misconduct allegations nearly two decades before cardinal’s removal

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OraLabora said:
For a very long time. My late mother told me of a priest in the 1940s , in her parish. It was a well-known secret to parents to never leave their sons alone with that priest.
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I have said it many times on this forum. If you look at the history of the Church, this problem goes back CENTURIES. Saint Damian wrote about it in the 11th Century. There is a long-standing, endemic, serious problem; which can only be changed with equally serious and long-lasting reform
 
There is nothing wrong with the CHURCH’S sexual morality.

There is a good deal wrong with individual members of the church who choose to defy and disregard the Church’s teachings on morality.
 
You know, sodomy existed even in 1st century Judaea, among the Jewish people, despite the fact that it was totally contrary to their religious beliefs. Any time you have any individual, that person has free will and can choose to do any sort of evil.

One could also point to the fact that throughout history clergy —not just Catholic clergy—have had men commit rape, sodomy, arson, theft, murder, etc. In all those cases, in all those actions, they chose to go Against the teachings of the Catholic Church.

One must be careful not to assign the individual sins of persons to an institution, nor to claim that the nature of an institution leads itself to a predilection for a particular sin.
 
stpurl said:
There is nothing wrong with the CHURCH’S sexual morality.
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I disagree. Profoundly. I won’t go into it here other than to say the sooner the Church abandons priestly celibacy, the better.

I will say this: if you put a 30 mph speed limit on an Interstate highway designed for 80 mph, don’t be surprised if it is widely disobeyed.
 
Apples and oranges.

And I’ll repeat, there is absolutely nothing wrong with the choice of celibacy, for the priesthood or for anyone else.

It does not lead one into deviant sexual behaviours.

How do you feel about the Church’s stand on premarital sex? Do you feel that is wrong as well?
 
stpurl said:
How do you feel about the Church’s stand on premarital sex? Do you feel that is wrong as well?
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No, I agree with that. But I’m not really willing to engage in discussion on this topic other than what I’ve already said.
 
I can see why because, frankly, you are employing a real double standard.

You don’t have any problem with expecting men and women to refrain from sex outside of marriage. None of the ‘30 mph limits on a 80 mph highway’ for that. Even though societal expectations are far higher for men and women to have sex out of wedlock, and for that to be perceived as morally fine, as opposed to ‘celibates having sex outside of their vows’ which is viewed as morally wrong.

Again, sure, you don’t want to talk about it but you know, you threw it out there. Did you expect people NOT to respond? Or to let you leave it out there as ‘unanswerable’ so that it can be seen as a perfectly ‘acceptable’ remark on your part? I am not doing this to be mean, but this is germane to the whole topic. I am perfectly willing to stop now after this post and not ‘keep after you’, but if others start to discuss the topic later I’m going to discuss it with them, and if after a while you refer to it yourself, I’ll engage. What I am not willing to do is let it slide without standing up for the Church and its teachings. So if it’s OK with you that I’m saying I support the Church’s teachings, then we can just ‘let this go’.
 
stpurl said:
So if it’s OK with you that I’m saying I support the Church’s teachings, then we can just ‘let this go’.
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Dude you can’t make a whole post accusing someone of having a double standard and then say ‘we can just let it go.’ You’re trying to have the last word.
 
It’s ma’am and you’d better read all the posts in question. I’ll ask you then, do you have a problem with the Church’s teaching on celibacy? Do you think it is a bit of a double standard to be OK with the Church’s teachings regarding the immorality of sex outside of marriage, but to think that its teachings on celibacy is wrong? That is not ‘trying to get the last word, that is somebody saying, “OK, you disagree with the Church’s teaching, and you don’t want to discuss it further. Fine, I agree with the teaching, and we can let it go.”

Good gracious. This is what the man wanted!! Well, maybe not me saying that I supported the Church, but that I wasn’t going to harangue him. And I’m not.
 
Dude, you’re proving my point. To use your own words, let it go.
 
It is not, “DUDE”. Perhaps you’re reading too quickly? Skipping over some words? I said it’s ma’am. Madam. A person of the feminine persuasion.
 
I’m not your mom. I would prefer my handle, Stpurl, or, “Ma’am’. Even Jerry Lewis’ “LAAAAADDYYY”. Momzilla. The Knitting Queen. You know, that kind of thing.
 
stpurl said:
One must be careful not to assign the individual sins of persons to an institution, nor to claim that the nature of an institution leads itself to a predilection for a particular sin.
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We must also be careful not to hide our heads in the sand and pretend there is no evidence of systemic long standing problems where they obviously exist.
 
True. But we need to know the true reasons the problems exist. Otherwise any ‘solutions’ we might find will never get to the root of the problem.
 
stpurl said:
True. But we need to know the true reasons the problems exist. Otherwise any ‘solutions’ we might find will never get to the root of the problem.
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First there has to be an honest admission as the the extent and nature of the problem. Until we get there, there is no chance of real improvement.
 
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