Vatican demands reform of American nuns' leadership group [CWN]

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hancaquam.blogspot.com/2012/04/first-believe-then-work.html

An interesting homily which I believe has application to the situation we see in those women religious who have lost their way.
Fr. Philip Neri Powell:
Catholics love to do stuff. We love activity. Dinners, parish meetings, service projects, prayer groups, pilgrimages, collections, anything and everything that might bring about some Good in the world. We are repeatedly urge on by our bishops and priests to engage the world with acts of charity so that the work of God might be a witness to His freely given mercy. During Lent, we’re exhorted from the pulpit to find a little quiet time, settle down from all our busyness, and spend some time alone with the Lord. Such exhortations wouldn’t be necessary if we were a lazy lot given to lounging about. Doing good stuff is encoded in our Catholic genes. And with good reason: for us to be perfected in Christ, we must be fully committed to God’s work—intellect and will; body, mind, heart, soul; all of our strength, all of our energy. So, when the people chasing Jesus and the disciples around the countryside find them and ask, “What can we do to accomplish the works of God?,” Catholics sit up and pay attention. Jesus’ answer, however, seems somewhat incomplete: “This is the work of God, that you believe in the one he sent.” Our work is to believe?

In the early fourth century, an insidious tendency slipped into the Church’s spirituality from our Greek philosophical ancestry. Crudely put, the dominant wisdom in Greek culture urged folks to set aside their physical needs and focus on pursuing higher, purely intellectual goals. The body’s demands on our time and energy were seen as not only unfortunate distractions but potentially deadly traps as well. The truly enlightened will transcend the physical world and dwell wholly in the realm of Ideas. When this bit of Greek wisdom entered the Church, it was given the name “Quietism” and its defenders taught that only by passively surrendering the self to the divine could we be saved. Like most heresies, Quietism contains a grain of truth. Surrendering one’s will to God in the pursuit of holiness is an excellent first step. But it is just the first step. When Jesus tells the crowd that believing in him is what they must do to accomplish the work of God, he’s teaching them the first step to take in the life-long task of working with God’s love to bring about both individual and communal holiness. Believing in the Christ goes hand-in-hand with accomplishing Christ’s work.

Jesus always seems to bob and weave around straightforward questions and then answers the unasked yet more fundamental question. Today is no exception. The people in the crowd want to know what it is they must do in order to do God’s work. They are wanting Jesus to say something like, “Feed the hungry, give alms, fast and pray, and go on pilgrimages.” But Jesus knows that if he gives them a Holy To-Do List, they will run off, do those jobs, and wait for holiness to find them. The more fundamental (and unasked) question he eventually answers is: who must I become in order to accomplish God’s work? His answer: you must become a believer in the One sent by God to atone for your sins. In other words, before you begin the work of God, you must belong to God, otherwise your work will be in vain. So, yes, our first job is to believe in the Christ; then, once we have given ourselves wholly to the Father, our work in His Name will both nurture us in holiness and spread the Good News of His abundant mercy. Believing and sitting quietly is at best preparation for tackling God’s To-Do List. But tackling that list without surrendering to God is work too easily frustrated by all-too-human vanity. To do God’s work, we must first be God’s people!
 
My objection is regarding NFP. The purpose of using NFP is to avoid pregnancy. The purpose of artificial birth control is to avoid pregnancy.QUOTE]

This is true, and it is Church teaching that NFP can be abused or used with a contraceptive mentality. Personally, I think it is only to be used for very serious reasons, and when it is, it is not the same as contraceptives. The reason is that the means used to avoid pregnancy is through abstinence, self control and true sacrificial love, which is quite different than engaging in sex but thwarting its true end (sort of having your cake and eating it too).

If someone is not pregnant because they have not engaged in sex, that is not a sin. Abstinence is an important part of chastity and growth in self control and true love and respect for the other person. It aids in not using the spouse for selfish ends.

But you’re right, it can be abused, and come close to contraceptive use (but not exactly, as abstinence is not a sin, but thwarting the procreative act is.)
 
And I think we should have made **a really big deal **about the reconcilliation. It’s not only the Church that took the hit in the media. As far as most people know, including the news outlets,Sr.McBride is still excommunicated. That’s not fair to her or the Church.
👍
 
Sorry about the above off-topic comment. I stated it because I was scrolling through the thread in chronological order, and answered her query before I got to the other posts about it being more pertinent to another thread.
 
That’s an excellent homily, Jason.
I agree. I think it represents a path which if followed, can prevent the straying off into the hinterlands that we too often see. We must approach our good works through God and His Church.
 
Considering the average age of those nuns, I wonder how they would plan for the retirement of these sisters, absent the resources of the Church as a whole.
Gotta feel sorry for those traditional nuns in liberal orders that still wear the habit and don’t agree with their liberal prioress. I know first-hand how beaten down they feel after visiting with a couple of Sinsinawa Domincan sisters that still use “Marie” as part of their address. They spoke to me in hushed tones out of fear of reprisal. If there is a split with Rome, pray that a provision is made for the few faithful ones left to stay with the Catholic Church.
 
ForeverGrace, I answered your question about NFP with a short reply on this thread (post #308) rather than via a PM as you asked. It was my fault, but you got the blame.

Based upon what both jwinch2 and iloveangels have said, I believe they might not get too angry at me for a short statement about “birth control” which would not necessarily be outside the parameters of this duel OP thread-- the LCRW, NETWORK, their political mentors et al. infamously use birth control as a tool to drive a wedge between Church teaching and the faithful. That’s one reason why the Church finally has had enough!

Because (1) this is my fault, for which you got the blame on THIS thread, and (2) because it would be playing into the dissidents’ hands to leave your question about Catholic teaching on birth control/NFP hanging (as though even we faithful didn’t understand it), I am going to take one more bite at the apple on THIS thread, viz:

You say, ForeverGrace, that “The church says birth control is wrong, but if you have to, then the least egregious method of birth control is NFP. Either birth control is wrong or it’s not wrong.” No offense, but that could come straight out of the LCWR.

Your confusion may be based on your mistaken belief (understandable in view of the errors spread by dissidents) that the Church “says birth control is wrong”. That is not now, nor ever has been the teaching of the Church! What the Church has always taught is very easy to understand:

NATURAL METHODS of spacing births (NFP and the old so-called calendar methods used to achieve or to avoid pregnancy) are neutral vis-a-vis God’s natural method of procreation. “Neutral” in that they may be used:

(1) For good-- to space children for truly economic or other sound reasons, without artificially blocking God’s natural method of procreation, that is, without using contraception, which is an unnatural method, or

(2) For no good–to avoid all procreation altogether for selfish reasons.

I hope that helps some; I owe it to you for not using a PM before.

Just noticed opus101’s post #321. Excelent!👍
 
Gotta feel sorry for those traditional nuns in liberal orders that still wear the habit and don’t agree with their liberal prioress. I know first-hand how beaten down they feel after visiting with a couple of Sinsinawa Domincan sisters that still use “Marie” as part of their address. They spoke to me in hushed tones out of fear of reprisal. If there is a split with Rome, pray that a provision is made for the few faithful ones left to stay with the Catholic Church.
I hope so too. I think there are many of these older sisters remaining in the infirmaries and motherhouses of these congregations.

I also know that some of the sisters who no longer live in motherhouses, but wear modified habits and take so much guff for it, are out of the motherhouses working on projects in order to escape the worst of the nonsense. I personally know one like this who works with the diocese where I live. She’s a great elderly lady, and a smart one. But it’s been tough.

Some of these sisters hold jobs with schools and dioceses until they are VERY old, and I always assumed it was just so they could contribute financially to the congregation. Now I’m starting to realize that this behavior was perhaps only part of the reason.
 
Gotta feel sorry for those traditional nuns in liberal orders that still wear the habit and don’t agree with their liberal prioress. I know first-hand how beaten down they feel after visiting with a couple of Sinsinawa Domincan sisters that still use “Marie” as part of their address. They spoke to me in hushed tones out of fear of reprisal. If there is a split with Rome, pray that a provision is made for the few faithful ones left to stay with the Catholic Church.
Will do. I feel so bad for those sisters. They are “white” martyrs. I think it’s great that you visited them. I’m wondering if lay people can start to organize visits and programs (like crafts, concerts, etc.) for them, and maybe stay to pray the Rosary with them and show appreciation for their fidelity. This might boost their morale and bring them hope. Somehow, word needs to get to them that we know they are there and that their sacrifices are not in vain.
 
I hope so too. I think there are many of these older sisters remaining in the infirmaries and motherhouses of these congregations.

I also know that some of the sisters who no longer live in motherhouses, but wear modified habits and take so much guff for it, are out of the motherhouses working on projects in order to escape the worst of the nonsense. I personally know one like this who works with the diocese where I live. She’s a great elderly lady, and a smart one. But it’s been tough.

Some of these sisters hold jobs with schools and dioceses until they are VERY old, and I always assumed it was just so they could contribute financially to the congregation. Now I’m starting to realize that this behavior was perhaps only part of the reason.
Interesting.

We have an older sister in our parish that seems to fit this to a T. She wears a habit and though she belongs to the same congregation as do the rest of our sisters, she is the only one to wear one. She also attends the same Mass that we do which is the one with the organ and cantor versus the happy-clappy stuff at one of the later Mass times.

I can’t help but wonder if she is in a situation like that.

Peace,
 
A small note of how the stances taken by some of the sisters in America are affecting the Church in small ways that add up to big things.

I was speaking with a friend of ours yesterday after Mass. He and his wife have 4 small children and have been looking into sending their kids to the Catholic school which is affiliated with our parish. Unfortunately, he found out that one of the sisters who works there holds some very unorthodox positions in terms of abortion, women’s ordination, etc. They have since made the decision to send their kids to a local public school with a good reputation for education and to band together with some other parents to teach the faith outside of a school setting. They simply refuse to spend a ton of money putting 4 kids through Catholic education with a DRE in the school/parish who dissents from Catholic doctrine. They are also fully aware that the primary people responsible for passing on the faith are themselves. They simply do not wish to be fighting the school when doing it.

The school that is affiliated with our parish has been struggling in getting numbers of students. We live in a low income area and many people simply cannot afford to send their kids to private school, particularly in this economy. However, my friend and his wife were willing to do so. The school was just reviewed externally to see if it was even feasible to keep it open with the way things are. The results indicated that there was sufficient population and interest to justify keeping it open. But, if things did not improve in a few years, they may have to consider closing the school. The school is in a position that literally, a few families putting enrolling their kids here and there or not doing so, will determine the viability of Catholic education in the town that I live in.

I do not have direct evidence of this, but I cannot help but speculate that this scenario is not an isolated incident. All over the country Catholic education is struggling, (obviously things are better in some places than others) and parents who are fighting financially are not going to send their kids to a school when there is a potential concern with the fidelity in how the faith is being passed on.
 
jwinch2, that has been my concern for many years, and it is heartbreaking to consider the number of souls that have been influenced for ill over the past few decades. True doctrine is so very important, it tells us WHY we do all of those social charitable works in the first place!

I’ll never understand how this has lasted so long without correction…so many souls have suffered, and so many have been led down the wrong path.

And the sisters say that they themselves are “hurt”!!!
 
I don’t have the time to read through everything here but today a neighbor of mine was complaining about something she saw in the newspaper where the Holy Father was supposed to be complaining about nuns. She made it sound like he was attacking all nuns saying they were not doing enough as far as prolife work and other things as they should be. I told her that didn’t make sense. The only thing I am seeing is the Vatican is asking for the reform of some specific groups only. She insisted that he was picking on all nuns and he should be picking on the priests instead (back to the scandal comments)😦

I am having a bad day anyway but wanted to get some information to straighten this out when I see her tomorrow. Your help here is appreciated!
 
I don’t have the time to read through everything here but today a neighbor of mine was complaining about something she saw in the newspaper where the Holy Father was supposed to be complaining about nuns. She made it sound like he was attacking all nuns saying they were not doing enough as far as prolife work and other things as they should be. I told her that didn’t make sense. The only thing I am seeing is the Vatican is asking for the reform of some specific groups only. She insisted that he was picking on all nuns and he should be picking on the priests instead (back to the scandal comments)😦

I am having a bad day anyway but wanted to get some information to straighten this out when I see her tomorrow. Your help here is appreciated!
I had the same experience Donna (from a friend in my former home town in Philadelphia calling to tell me about the article in the paper). It’s amazing how the MSN media can slant an article such that intelligent and relatively normal, unbiased people can be led astray while thinking that they are hearing truthful voices.

Try to explain to your friend that the people involved in the article (with the best of intentions perhaps) were ‘cherry picking’ what the Pope said and trying to fit it into what they think he meant. This is a cardinal sin of modern news writers which my former teachers (CATHOLIC NUNS of the 1960s!) would have universally decried.

IOW, these writers, many of whom have been exposed to similar-thinking colleagues, have only read or accepted other writers who have pounded out the accepted view. Therefore, whenever these writers are presented with statements from “the Vatican”, they do not look at what the words actually mean, but present them into an already brim-full ‘box’ labelled, “What the Vatican wants to do”. . .which is full of statements like, “Rule the world”, 'keep women second-class", ‘take us back to the Dark Ages", “coverup scandals”, etc. Every statement given them is colored by those ‘box statements’ and also presented with the kind of language that presents it in the most damaging way. You won’t hear things like “the Pope SAID” (said being a neutral term). You’ll hear that he "proclaimed’ (to make it seem like he’s a big grand figure, or that he ‘criticized’, And even though the statement was all about one particular group of nuns (not ALL nuns as you correctly note), there will be passing references to ‘the Church’s historical subjugation of women’. . .as though this is a FACT which it certainly is NOT. . .

Yet because these kinds of statements are repeated over and over in news papers and magazines on which many intelligent people rely, which they feel are solid and fair, they come to believe the statements (made without any proof whatsoever!) and come to expect to hear the same things over and over.

What’s the old saying? Repeat a lie often enough, and loudly enough, and it will become a truth to most.
 
Will do. I feel so bad for those sisters. They are “white” martyrs. I think it’s great that you visited them. I’m wondering if lay people can start to organize visits and programs (like crafts, concerts, etc.) for them, and maybe stay to pray the Rosary with them and show appreciation for their fidelity. This might boost their morale and bring them hope. Somehow, word needs to get to them that we know they are there and that their sacrifices are not in vain.
This might be a good idea, but I’d do it with a bit of prudence for the sake of the older sisters. I mean if I do it, I’ll show up and not talk politics or anything, but just visit with the older ones as older ones, and play the part of the “dumb layperson.” I’m sure they’d appreciate the company. And you can always pray for them. We all should.

Oh, and certainly if you decide to do this, make arrangements first! You can’t just waltz into a convent for a look around. 😉
 
I don’t have the time to read through everything here but today a neighbor of mine was complaining about something she saw in the newspaper where the Holy Father was supposed to be complaining about nuns. She made it sound like he was attacking all nuns saying they were not doing enough as far as prolife work and other things as they should be. I told her that didn’t make sense. The only thing I am seeing is the Vatican is asking for the reform of some specific groups only. She insisted that he was picking on all nuns and he should be picking on the priests instead (back to the scandal comments)😦

I am having a bad day anyway but wanted to get some information to straighten this out when I see her tomorrow. Your help here is appreciated!
There’s a lot of explanatory information in this thread, Donna. I’d recommend you at least skim through it. There’s a lot to this.

What the Vatican is reforming - right now - is the advisory organization that only some of the groups of sisters belong to, called the LCWR, the Leadership Conference of Women Religious, not the actual religious congregations. There will be another report later this year on the actual congregations of sisters. This was needed because the whole thing is really off the rails. And the church has been very patient.

The articles in the news media are just silly. The news media doesn’t really know much about Catholics and they’ve got everything all mixed up.

It’s not that the sisters aren’t doing enough prolife work. It’s that many of them aren’t doing any, and they’re in direct opposition to what the Church teaches on many things. Some of them are even denying that Christ is the way, the truth and the life. (John 14:6)

This has nothing at all to do with priests. That was something else entirely. Different topic.
 
Will do. I feel so bad for those sisters. They are “white” martyrs. I think it’s great that you visited them. I’m wondering if lay people can start to organize visits and programs (like crafts, concerts, etc.) for them, and maybe stay to pray the Rosary with them and show appreciation for their fidelity. This might boost their morale and bring them hope. Somehow, word needs to get to them that we know they are there and that their sacrifices are not in vain.
The Rosary is part of their tradition, especially as Dominicans. In fact their glorious chapel is named after Mary, Queen of the Most Holy Rosary. So many have devoted their lives to education and service. Mission statements of Orders speak volumes for what they currently stand for. If you see “peace and justice” as their emphasis, be weary as these words have been manipulated to glorify humans, not God.
 
Perhaps this is an example of the Church’s concern that the type of ideas promoted by the LCWR are negatively affecting religious life in other countries. This is from India:

sites.google.com/site/jameskottoorspeaking/woman-why-are-you-weeping

As far as finding info for the scripted manipulative tactics mentioned before, I’m still looking, but as I recall they reminded me of some things found in Saul Alinsky’s “Rules for Radicals”.

Much of the “machine” that is out there trying to influence the media and internet uses these techniques. For instance, the rule about ridiculing the “enemy” (the Church) because it is almost impossible to respond well to ridicule.

One of the sites I just saw said “According to Alinsky, the main job of the organizer is to bait an opponent into reacting. 'The enemy properly goaded and guided in his reaction will be your major strength”.

Hence all of the nasty comments found on a lot of Catholic sites, trying to create angry responses. It falls in their favor.
 
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