Vatican demands reform of American nuns' leadership group [CWN]

[jwinch2]

As Brother JR has pointed out here on CAF many times over, every family has its problem children. Religious families are no different.

I do have a hard time understanding how some Franciscans, Dominicans, and Benedictines could have strayed so far from the faith. If you read the Rule that each follow, though they are different, they all discuss obedience, fidelity, etc.

Dominic, who wept for sinners as he prayed by the altar all night long rather than going to sleep; Benedict, who wrote so eloquently about obedience in the Holy Rule; and Francis, who was so concerned about humility; all have to be rolling in their graves at the lack of obedience, humility, and concern for sin that is being promoted by some of their daughters.

Its a bit easier to understand in those newer congregations who, in the absence of an unchangeable Rule and centuries of history, when told to go back to their roots really had no place to go.

 

[KSU]

Ah, don’t cry. I do appreciate the answers I’m receiving on this post. I realize that I joined this conversation in a defensive manner; however, thanks to the many links provided herein, I am learning more. Believe me, I don’t really know much about the LCWR and/or their heretical ways.

Thank you, Cyndita.

BTW, I misspelled your name as Candia. Sorry; believe it or not I was thinking of youtube.com/watch?v=muGtVQ5QyI0&feature=related

 

[Califman831]

Oh then the CMSWR is what my friends are in. I thought we were talking about the same organization. God help the other group.

Yes may God help the other group. I was looking at both groups websites and I felt the peace of God’s kingdom predominately in the CMSWR’s page. The lcwr’s page on the other hand sadly resembles more generic Christianity.

cmswr.org/index.html

lcwr.org/

 

[LittleSoldier]

KSU;9261374:

I will pray for you, KSU. You seem unwilling or unable to have respectful dialogue with those who may question your positions. May the peace of God be with you.

I don’t know what is going on with the QUOTE function but I am requesting that everyone preview before posting. I can no longer follow this discussion.

And I can’t even fix my own post as I have no idea what was said by any poster.

 

[LittleSoldier]

Please, could everyone preview their posts before posting? Somehow the QUOTE function has been misused (or perhaps there is a glitch in the software) and I can no longer follow most of the discussion.

Thanks.

 

[KSU]

KSU, you provided a link that referred to God as “Godde”. Do you have any idea why the writer spells it that way?

OMGsh…this was on that site…acatholicwomansplace.blogspot.com/2012/04/standing-soul-to-soul-with-sisters.html#!/2012/04/standing-soul-to-soul-with-sisters.html

Yes, I know why:

QUOTE Why Godde and not God? Godde is combination of God and Goddess to show that the Divine transcends gender: Godde is neither male nor female and both male and female since Godde created both men and women in the image of Godde. I believe that Godde is Mother as well as Father. Instead of using the standard Lord that’s used to translate Yahweh in the Hebrew Scriptures, I use Sophia-Yahweh or Sophia. I will lean more towards feminine references to Godde on my blog as masculine references are just about all you hear in church and society to refer to Godde. I use exclusively feminine pronouns for Godde for this reason as well. You’ll be seeing Sophia and Mother a lot on this blog, and I hope it doesn’t offend you. I hope it will help you to see Godde in new ways and start to walk on new paths with this Godde who cries out like a woman in labor to bring forth her people and nurses them at her own breast (Deut. 32:18, Psalm 22:10; 131:2; Isaiah 42:14; 49:15; 66:13). END QUOTE
shawnaatteberry.com/2010/08/07/why-godde/

After we quit laughing at them, I guess we’d better pray to Our Lady.

 

[jwinch2]

Yes, I know why:

QUOTE Why Godde and not God? Godde is combination of God and Goddess to show that the Divine transcends gender: Godde is neither male nor female and both male and female since Godde created both men and women in the image of Godde. I believe that Godde is Mother as well as Father. Instead of using the standard Lord that’s used to translate Yahweh in the Hebrew Scriptures, I use Sophia-Yahweh or Sophia. I will lean more towards feminine references to Godde on my blog as masculine references are just about all you hear in church and society to refer to Godde. I use exclusively feminine pronouns for Godde for this reason as well. You’ll be seeing Sophia and Mother a lot on this blog, and I hope it doesn’t offend you. I hope it will help you to see Godde in new ways and start to walk on new paths with this Godde who cries out like a woman in labor to bring forth her people and nurses them at her own breast (Deut. 32:18, Psalm 22:10; 131:2; Isaiah 42:14; 49:15; 66:13). END QUOTE
shawnaatteberry.com/2010/08/07/why-godde/

Just to be up front, the person who is quoted here and who runs that website is Episcopal and not Catholic. However, even as an Episcopal, that doctrine is so out of whack with the received tradition of the Church, our Anglican brothers and sisters, and our Jewish cousins, as to be laughable if it were not so sad and scary. That the woman who runs the blog describes herself as a “theologian” is surreal.

 

[theidler]

As Brother JR has pointed out here on CAF many times over, every family has its problem children. Religious families are no different.

I do have a hard time understanding how some Franciscans, Dominicans, and Benedictines could have strayed so far from the faith. If you read the Rule that each follow, though they are different, they all discuss obedience, fidelity, etc.

Dominic, who wept for sinners as he prayed by the altar all night long rather than going to sleep; Benedict, who wrote so eloquently about obedience in the Holy Rule; and Francis, who was so concerned about humility; all have to be rolling in their graves at the lack of obedience, humility, and concern for sin that is being promoted by some of their daughters.

Its a bit easier to understand in those newer congregations who, in the absence of an unchangeable Rule and centuries of history, when told to go back to their roots really had no place to go.

I couldn’t agree more.
What I do not understand is how these LCWR sisters could dispense with 2000 years of Christian history, theology, beauty, and all the rest, in order to be “current”. I am tired of this kind of “dance with the spirit” kind of pseudo-religious.
I did not convert to the Catholic Church to change its beliefs, but because, after a long period of reflection and struggle, I came to accept those very beliefs. If one does not accept the teachings of the Church, they are free to leave. No one is going to shun them or treat them badly or anything - the most they will do is pray for them.
But we need a return, so badly, to the traditions of the Church. My generation is joining the traditional orders, becoming priests before they are 30 years of age, embracing traditional piety and teaching, immersing themselves in theology.
It is extremely interesting to note that the LCWR as it is is a product of its time. Notice that all those orders of sisters are all around the same age?
Like I said, no one is condemning the LCWR over their charitable works - they should be commended, just as I think anyone with a heart would commend the great work that groups like the Mormons do around the world. But on a doctrinal level, the LCWR is the farthest thing from Christian orthodoxy I have seen as of late.
This is precisely the problem. When you begin to deny the basic tenets of Christianity, why is it wrong that someone step in and warn you, a so–called Christian group, that what you are doing is outside the boundaries of the faith? In bygone days, even Meister Eckhart and Francois Fenelon submitted to the Church, founded by Christ, when it came to issues of unorthodoxy or possible heresy. This is a sign that they may have been in error, but were certainly not heretics. Origen, who is often accused of unorthodoxy and heresy, would have rather died than teach something against the Church founded by Our Lord.
What have we today? I’ll leave that to everyone else to answer I guess…

 

[opus101]

Thank you for that (name removed by moderator)ut, theidler. I couldn’t agree more. And welcome home!

 

[KSU]

I couldn’t agree more.
What I do not understand is how these LCWR sisters could dispense with 2000 years of Christian history, theology, beauty, and all the rest, in order to be “current”. I am tired of this kind of “dance with the spirit” kind of pseudo-religious…
But on a doctrinal level, the LCWR is the farthest thing from Christian orthodoxy I have seen as of late…
In bygone days, even Meister Eckhart and Francois Fenelon submitted to the Church, founded by Christ, when it came to issues of unorthodoxy or possible heresy. This is a sign that they may have been in error, but were certainly not heretics. Origen, who is often accused of unorthodoxy and heresy, would have rather died than teach something against the Church founded by Our Lord.
What have we today? I’ll leave that to everyone else to answer I guess…

What we have today has been obvious for decades–Socialism masquerading as peace and justice, and homosexuality/radical feminism, masquerading as the Gospel’s requirement that we be tolerant and fair. I wish I could recall which of the Popes stated that those two basic maladies, although they did not prevail, were represented even at VCII.

Please note well: I am not saying the LCWR is some kind of pinko, deviant organization–of course they are not. There are far too many wonderful, productive, faithful Catholics in the underlying orders for that to be the case. I am saying that in my opinion, the objectionable facets of the LCRW/NETWORK/CTA construct would not exist if Socialism and homosexuality/radical feminism did not exist.

It is as painful for me to say it as it is for you to hear it, but that’s what we have today.

 

[Captain_America]

Yes, I know why:

QUOTE Why Godde and not God? Godde is combination of God and Goddess to show that the Divine transcends gender: Godde is neither male nor female and both male and female since Godde created both men and women in the image of Godde. I believe that Godde is Mother as well as Father. Instead of using the standard Lord that’s used to translate Yahweh in the Hebrew Scriptures, I use Sophia-Yahweh or Sophia. I will lean more towards feminine references to Godde on my blog as masculine references are just about all you hear in church and society to refer to Godde. I use exclusively feminine pronouns for Godde for this reason as well. You’ll be seeing Sophia and Mother a lot on this blog, and I hope it doesn’t offend you. I hope it will help you to see Godde in new ways and start to walk on new paths with this Godde who cries out like a woman in labor to bring forth her people and nurses them at her own breast (Deut. 32:18, Psalm 22:10; 131:2; Isaiah 42:14; 49:15; 66:13). END QUOTE
shawnaatteberry.com/2010/08/07/why-godde/

After we quit laughing at them, I guess we’d better pray to Our Lady.

“whatever. . .”

 

[Captain_America]

Frankly, the whole matter fills me with sorrow. People need the Catholic church to mean the Catholic church, and the catechism helps keep the key concepts definitional to us and what we do.

Making it up as you go along, is probably the wrong way to go.

My take on this is that, like any large organization, it needs to stay on track with what it’s all about. Gender matters not; theology does. If some nuns don’t want to be Catholic, or don’t want to be Christians, that’s sad for us, to be sure, but misleading if they still somehow want people to consider them Catholics or Christians.

It’s like telling people you’re red-headed when you’re blond. ANY organization needs to maintain its core identity.

 

[opus101]

Frankly, the whole matter fills me with sorrow. People need the Catholic church to mean the Catholic church, and the catechism helps keep the key concepts definitional to us and what we do.

Making it up as you go along, is probably the wrong way to go.

My take on this is that, like any large organization, it needs to stay on track with what it’s all about. Gender matters not; theology does. If some nuns don’t want to be Catholic, or don’t want to be Christians, that’s sad for us, to be sure, but misleading if they still somehow want people to consider them Catholics or Christians.

It’s like telling people you’re red-headed when you’re blond. ANY organization needs to maintain its core identity.

 

[Cyndita]

Thank you, Cyndita.

BTW, I misspelled your name as Candia. Sorry; believe it or not I was thinking of youtube.com/watch?v=muGtVQ5QyI0&feature=related

Aha. I remember Tony Orland and Dawn from the 70s. I’m not quite sure why you’re comparing me to Candida, but I’m sleepy right now, and going to bed; tomorrow, I’ll have the time to analyze what you’ve inferred… Mr. KSU, let us agree to disagree, and let us try to progress in our conversations. :slapfight:I am interested in what you say - regardless of my (sometimes snotty) attitude. .I, like you, love our church and the miracle of the Eucharist.

I hope you’re ok, and not crying,

 

[KSU]

Aha. I remember Tony Orland and Dawn from the 70s. I’m not quite sure why you’re comparing me to Candida, but I’m sleepy right now, and going to bed; tomorrow, I’ll have the time to analyze what you’ve inferred… Mr. KSU, let us agree to disagree, and let us try to progress in our conversations. :slapfight:I am interested in what you say - regardless of my (sometimes snotty) attitude. .I, like you, love our church and the miracle of the Eucharist.

I hope you’re ok, and not crying,

Please don’t waste your time trying any Freudian psychoanalysis, or trying to find any inferences–“Cyndita” simply reminded me of the song title “Candida”. That’s the only reason why I misspelled your name. A rose is a rose by any other name.

 

[jwinch2]

chicagotribune.com/news/sns-mct-nuns-group-sanctioned-by-vatican-to-meet-this-20120504,0,1203517,print.story

snippet.

The national group of Roman Catholic nuns led by a Western Pennsylvania woman will meet at month’s end to discuss a Vatican rebuke of the organization.

Last month, the Vatican, which oversees the Leadership Conference of Women Religious, slapped the group with sanctions for promoting “certain radical feminist themes incompatible with the Catholic faith.”

The Leadership Conference’s national board will meet in Washington May 29 through June 1, “beginning to look at what the next steps will be in response to this (Vatican) report,” according to Sister Annmarie Sanders, the group’s associate director for communications.

Sister Janet Mock, a Johnstown native affiliated with the Sisters of St. Joseph in Baden, was named executive director of the Leadership Conference in early April. Sanders said Mock is not available for interviews.

The conference represents 80 percent of the nation’s 57,000 nuns.

The Vatican announced last month a full-scale overhaul of the group, accusing it of taking positions that undermine Roman Catholic teachings on the priesthood and homosexuality. The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith said in its report that the Leadership Conference has been “silent on the right to life from conception to natural death, a question that is part of the lively public debate about abortion and euthanasia in the United States.”

An American archbishop, Peter Sartain of Seattle, was appointed to oversee the reform. Efforts to reach him for comment last night were unavailing. Nor could anyone be reached at the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops in Washington.

Obviously this the popular media so there are some inaccuracies, namely the “80%” claim discussed much earlier in the thread.

 

[LittleSoldier]

chicagotribune.com/news/sns-mct-nuns-group-sanctioned-by-vatican-to-meet-this-20120504,0,1203517,print.story

snippet.

Obviously this the popular media so there are some inaccuracies, namely the “80%” claim discussed much earlier in the thread.

Not to mention the rather subjective and pejorative word “slapped.”

 

[Cyndita]

Please don’t waste your time trying any Freudian psychoanalysis, or trying to find any inferences–“Cyndita” simply reminded me of the song title “Candida”. That’s the only reason why I misspelled your name. A rose is a rose by any other name.

 

[LittleSoldier]

I know.

 

[jwinch2]

Aha. I remember Tony Orland and Dawn from the 70s. I’m not quite sure why you’re comparing me to Candida, but I’m sleepy right now, and going to bed; **tomorrow, I’ll have the time to analyze what you’ve inferred… **
I hope you’re ok, and not crying,

You write what you wrote above and then pretend that you don’t understand why you received the response that you did?