Vatican demands reform of American nuns' leadership group [CWN]

[jwinch2]

You are so sure that your blikered view of my religion is correct that you put people off.

He is directing you to a thread where what you are arguing about is actually the topic. This thread is about the situation with the LCWR and the report issued by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.

Here is a thread where the topic you are addressing is ongoing and where he is actively discussing the topic with others. forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=9417241#post9417241

Peace,

 

[KSU]

WOW! Hasn’t anyone ever argued with you? I can only gather that you are convinced that only you via Aquinas are correct. The Pope may disagree (he favours Augustine). I would only encourage you if I agreed to re-enter the Dark Ages even figuratively, in debate. Suffice it to say I personally find individuals like you dangerous. You are so sure that your blikered view of my religion is correct that you put people off. Those rantings are so far removed from the current interpretation of Catholisism. I guess we should reintroduce Droit du seigneur, slavery

You certainly are persuasive, Jimmygill88, but jwinch2 is correct: I was suggesting that you take your diplomatic manner over to forums.catholic-questions.org/showthrea…41#post9417241 . That’s the thread to argue in support of the old Catholic-Socialist errors under the name of Distributism. And when you do, don’t embarrass yourself further about the Pope disagreeing with Aquinas in favor of Augustine on Distributism. That is improbable because Aquinas and Augustine agree. Here’s Aquinas in De Regime Principum:
"Nor does the very order of nature permit equality, for Divine Providence established all created things with a certain inequality, both by their nature and their merit. So, to enforce equality in temporal goods such as possessions, is to destroy the order that exists in things, which Augustine, with regard to inequality, defines as such: Order is ‘the disposition of equal and unequal things, giving to each what it deserves’” (The City of God, 19, 13).

 

[jwinch2]

EWTN Theology Roundtable - Doctrinal Assessment of the LCWR

youtube.com/watch?v=G3QJw5_sbEo&feature=g-u-u

 

[jwinch2]

One of the themes showing up repeatedly in the popular media and even within Catholic circles is that this situation represents an attack by the Vatican on females within the Church. However, something worth noting is the fact that the Vatican has taken similar steps in the past with Catholic universities, Catholic seminaries, etc. Thus, the idea that the Holy See is in some way singling out women religious would seem to be false.

 

[Michael_Mayo]

One of the themes showing up repeatedly in the popular media and even within Catholic circles is that this situation represents an attack by the Vatican on females within the Church. However, something worth noting is the fact that the Vatican has taken similar steps in the past with Catholic universities, Catholic seminaries, etc. Thus, the idea that the Holy See is in some way singling out women religious would seem to be false.

Yes, remember this:

lifesitenews.com/news/vatican-review-of-us-catholic-seminaries-completed-usccb-says

 

[KSU]

Two great links. Thanks Jason and Michael.

 

[jwinch2]

Two great links. Thanks Jason and Michael.

Cheers,

 

[ellipsis2]

WOW! Hasn’t anyone ever argued with you? I can only gather that you are convinced that only you via Aquinas are correct. The Pope may disagree (he favours Augustine). I would only encourage you if I agreed to re-enter the Dark Ages even figuratively, in debate. Suffice it to say I personally find individuals like you dangerous. You are so sure that your blikered view of my religion is correct that you put people off. Those rantings are so far removed from the current interpretation of Catholisism. I guess we should reintroduce Droit du seigneur, slavery

I hear you and I feel your pain.

 

[_Abyssinia]

Vatican threatens ‘radical feminist’ nuns’ group with de-recognition

If they are not prepared to assert a more distinctly Catholic identity, the Vatican is prepared to oust the largest umbrella group of American nuns and sisters as the official representative and liaison with Rome, one of the pope’s closest advisors said in a rare interview.

If the Leadership Conference of Women Religious (LCWR) refuses absolutely to cooperate with the Vatican’s attempt at reform, said William Levada, the cardinal prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, they will force Rome to reconsider their position in the Church.

“If you look at the church as a hierarchical structure—whether you see that as benign, or something else—ultimately, the pope is the superior,” Levada said.

“I suppose if the sisters said, ‘OK, we’re not cooperating with this,’ we can’t force them to cooperate. What we can do, and what we’d have to do, is say to them, ‘We will substitute a functioning group for yours,’ if it comes to that.”

Levada http://ncronline.org/blogs/all-thin...-interview-levada-talks-lcwr-criticism-states
US journalist John Allen that there it is “premature” to imagine that the current LCWR leadership is to address the “substantive issues” brought up by a doctrinal assessment issued in April.

Allen stressed the point, asking, “So if the response is not satisfactory, the result could be decertification of LCWR?”

“It could be,” Levada responded.

…

lifesitenews.com/news/vatican-threatens-radical-feminist-nuns-group-with-de-recognition

 

[LisaA]

Vatican threatens ‘radical feminist’ nuns’ group with de-recognition

lifesitenews.com/news/vatican-threatens-radical-feminist-nuns-group-with-de-recognition

You know while the Sisters might claim they were thrown out, in reality those who are in such sharp disagreement with the Church showed themselves the door. It’s rather like the statement that God doesn’t send anyone to Hell, we do it to ourselves.

I hope and pray that the Sisters will reconcile with the Church and continue to serve faithfully.

Lisa

 

[_Abyssinia]

The war between the Vatican and American nuns is about bad theology, not gender oppression

If this is obvious to a layman, then why do the American nuns persist with their theological innovation? Alas, the answer is that some of them simply aren’t very Catholic. Or, at least, their Catholicity takes a second place to their political liberalism.

The LCWR has endorsed Obamacare, despite the fact that it threatens Catholic liberty and teachings by compelling Catholic employers to provide contraception coverage to their employees. That shouldn’t come as a surprise, because several members of the LCWR had been active campaigners for reproductive rights. Moreover, they have embraced a theological ethos that goes beyond Catholicism – and even beyond Christianity itself. One of their key note speakers at this year’s convention was Barbara Max Hubbard, who “has been called ‘the voice for conscious evolution of our time’ by Deepak Chopra … She has launched the “Agents of Conscious Evolution” training and is forming a global team to co-produce a global multi-media event entitled, ‘Birth 2012: Co-Creating a Planetary Shift in Time’ … a historic, turning-point event; awakening the social, spiritual, scientific, and technological potential of humanity.” Hardly St Augustine, is it?

But Hubbard’s involvement in the LCWR does conform to a trend within older female orders towards New Age thinking. And that trend is actually starting to die out. All too often, press coverage of this story has suggested that the LCWR represents all US nuns. It doesn’t – its membership is just 1,500. Across America, the average age of a nun is 69, which means that many of the old liberals are fading way. By contrast, the new orders have tended to emphasize traditional dress and theology. This might be an attempt to please Rome, but it’s more likely to reflect the fact that the younger generation grew up with fond memories of the orthodoxy of John Paul II. Sixties liberalism is being eclipsed by 1980s conservatism. The LCWR represents the past, not – as its allies in the liberal press claim – the future.

So the answer to the question of who will rid the Vatican of these turbulent nuns is time and nature. Ten years or so from now, the American Church will once again be a bastion of orthodoxy. The wimple will return.

blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/timstanley/100167928/the-war-between-the-vatican-and-american-nuns-is-about-bad-theology-not-gender-oppression

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Is this the only nuns v. The Vatican situation that’s ongoing right now? I mean, is this “the one” that is current.

Because I think our priest referred to this situation tonight at the Vigil Mass, and he was most certainly on the side of the nuns and made it seem as if The Vatican is over-reacting.



This was, of course, in the more liberal parish we attend. Nothing else he spoke about was controversial and I doubt if a lot of people at the Mass even knew what he was talking about, but it sure sounded as if he was saying the nuns want to teach things and the Vatican thinks it should be done only in one way, etc. He was clearly on the nun’s side.



But before I go running out with my hair on fire, I want to be sure there isn’t some other group of nuns that are totally orthodox, wanting to teach orthodoxy and the Vatican is saying, “no.”

 

[jwinch2]

Is this the only nuns v. The Vatican situation that’s ongoing right now? I mean, is this “the one” that is current.

Because I think our priest referred to this situation tonight at the Vigil Mass, and he was most certainly on the side of the nuns and made it seem as if The Vatican is over-reacting.



This was, of course, in the more liberal parish we attend. Nothing else he spoke about was controversial and I doubt if a lot of people at the Mass even knew what he was talking about, but it sure sounded as if he was saying the nuns want to teach things and the Vatican thinks it should be done only in one way, etc. He was clearly on the nun’s side.



But before I go running out with my hair on fire, I want to be sure there isn’t some other group of nuns that are totally orthodox, wanting to teach orthodoxy and the Vatican is saying, “no.”

The only other thing going on that I am aware of is the “nuns on a bus” thing… But I haven’t heard anything about the Holy See getting involved with that.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

The only other thing going on that I am aware of is the “nuns on a bus” thing… But I haven’t heard anything about the Holy See getting involved with that.

What is that? Link?

 

[katy]

wdtprs.com/blog/tag/nuns-on-the-bus/

 

[jwinch2]

What is that? Link?

I heard that a couple of bishops were upset because the timing was the same as the “Fortnight for Freedom” which may or may not have been intentional. Whether it was or not, it definitely took much of the coverage and discussion that might otherwise have been garnered.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

OK, I am about 97% sure that this IS the situation Fr. mentioned in his homily. There’s an article about it in our Texas Catholic Herald, by our Cardinal. The article was very balanced, but did state that the review of the religious orders has been a long time overdue, and that some of them have been teaching error for a very long time.

Fr. DEFINITELY came down on the side of the nuns, and implied that the Vatican is just picking on them for no reason.



He’s even older than the regular priest, which surprises me, because the regular priest (pastor) is a Baby Boomer with all of those values (yes, even as a priest). I never expected an older priest to be liberal!

Shocking that he would take sides right in front of the congregation.

 

[LisaA]

Fr. DEFINITELY came down on the side of the nuns, and implied that the Vatican is just picking on them for no reason.



He’s even older than the regular priest, which surprises me, because the regular priest (pastor) is a Baby Boomer with all of those values (yes, even as a priest). I never expected an older priest to be liberal!

Shocking that he would take sides right in front of the congregation.

It seems that both for Priests and Religious, those who were heavily influnced by the cultural shifts in the 1960s tend to be more liberal, more into the “liberation theology” stuff. Being a Baby Boomer myself, I see this tendency in a number of my fellow travelers both in the Parish and at work.

When you see the younger Religious they are more likely to be wearing a habit and adhering to the Church’s teaching than some of those in their 50s and above.

I hope you have alternatives. I would have a difficult time dealing with a really liberal Priest.

Lisa

 

[TheRealJuliane]

It seems that both for Priests and Religious, those who were heavily influnced by the cultural shifts in the 1960s tend to be more liberal, more into the “liberation theology” stuff. Being a Baby Boomer myself, I see this tendency in a number of my fellow travelers both in the Parish and at work.

When you see the younger Religious they are more likely to be wearing a habit and adhering to the Church’s teaching than some of those in their 50s and above.

I hope you have alternatives. I would have a difficult time dealing with a really liberal Priest.

Lisa

Yes, we have a much more orthodox/traditional parish that is closer and more convenient. I am so disappointed - the previous pastor was nothing like this and the parish has been really changed over the last 10 years.

 

[KSU]

I want to be sure there isn’t some other group of nuns that are totally orthodox, wanting to teach orthodoxy and the Vatican is saying, “no.”

That would happen only after Hell freezes over.

And, BTW, what you are being told herein above has been true everywhere I’ve lived–the younger (1980ties and later) clergy and religious definitely tend to be orthodox compared to the old Catholic Worker and “Seamless Garment” folks.