Vatican demands reform of American nuns' leadership group [CWN]

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iloveangels said:
Bellasbane,
The notification came from the CDF. stop.
The CDF will be handling it. stop.
That’s all you know about it because that’s all any laypeople know about it. stop.

Easy does it.
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So you want the moderator to close this thread? If there is nothing left to discuss, why should he bother keeping it open? I don’t get what point you’re trying to make. :confused:
 
bellasbane said:
So you want the moderator to close this thread? If there is nothing left to discuss, why should he bother keeping it open? I don’t get what point you’re trying to make. :confused:
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People are making a lot of assumptions and going off the deep end in both directions. This is a bit of a circus. I’m pretty sure that’s not helping anything or anyone.
 
Anna_Claire said:
Weighing in with opinion…for what is worth here.
I think this is going to be formative more than it will be punitive for women religious. The conference was formed because Rome wanted it. Maybe the sisters will simply decide to disband the LCWR and form their own group or groups.
It’s getting rather ugly these days as the hierarchy continues to do things to show their control and power over us, regardless of who gets hurt.…and it’s us, the Catholics, getting hurt by all this. If these actions coming out of Rome continue, the damage to unity will be significant. This kind of crusade is ugly and It will not end well.
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With all due charity, the Hierarchy( if you mean The Holy Father, and the Magesterium) does have authority over us. Remember that whole “Keys to the Kingdom” thing? Just because many wish the Church to be a democracy, does not mean that it is. And if someone is having hurt feelings over the decisions from Rome, that person or persons just might want to re-think why they feel that way in the first place.
 
bellasbane said:
So you want the moderator to close this thread? If there is nothing left to discuss, why should he bother keeping it open? I don’t get what point you’re trying to make. :confused:
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I’m female, but I for one, don’t care to hear a lot of feminist **** today. Enough is enough. This is not about present-day feminism and the Vatican beating up on anybody, and if you think it is, you probably don’t know enough about the history of sisters in the USA. What’s happened this week is the culmination of a 300-year old story, with a lot of twists and turns. Parts of it are pretty ugly and it’s as much the fault of women as it is of men.

The thing to do now is the right thing. Clean it up and get on with life. That’s what the Church is attempting to do.
 
Scoobyshme said:
They just need to clean out that rats nest of liberal nuns. Disorganize 'em. Break 'em up. Do a “Bishop Bruskewitz” on 'em. (Give 'em 30 days to disassociate themselves with the heterodox organizations, or get excommunicated.) That would be the simplest and easiest way to solve the problem.
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All you would do is make martyrs of them. :rolleyes:

The actuarial sciences will take care of them soon enough.
 
Anna_Claire said:
Weighing in with opinion…for what is worth here.
I think this is going to be formative more than it will be punitive for women religious. The conference was formed because Rome wanted it. Maybe the sisters will simply decide to disband the LCWR and form their own group or groups.
It’s getting rather ugly these days as the hierarchy continues to do things to show their control and power over us, regardless of who gets hurt…and it’s us, the Catholics, getting hurt by all this. If these actions coming out of Rome continue, the damage to unity will be significant. This kind of crusade is ugly and It will not end well.
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So they should be allowed to live and work contrary to the teachings of the Catholic Christian faith? Contrary to their own solemn vows? Why? Because their egos fueled by popular culture says so?

You characterizing this as a “crusade” is very ugly…
 
iloveangels said:
I’m female, but I for one, don’t care to hear a lot of feminist **** today. Enough is enough. This is not about present-day feminism and the Vatican beating up on anybody, and if you think it is, you probably don’t know enough about the history of sisters in the USA. What’s happened this week is the culmination of a 300-year old story, with a lot of twists and turns. Parts of it are pretty ugly and it’s as much the fault of women as it is of men.

The thing to do now is the right thing. Clean it up and get on with life. That’s what the Church is attempting to do.
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You are certainly welcome to your opinion. I’m not trying to silence you simply because I don’t share them. If you have something to add to the conversation, then do so. Share your great knowledge about the history of sisters in the USA - which I believe started in 1809 when St. Elizabeth Ann Seton founded the first U.S. religious community for women - which makes you about 100 years off in your reckoning.

I tire of small minded sexism. Jesus wasn’t offended when a woman told him it was time to start his ministry at Canaan even though he wasn’t planning to do so. Sometimes women are better at judging the times than men. I said at the beginning that I hope there will be reconciliation between the Bishops and the LCWR, one that satisfies both, because I don’t think the alternative is all that great for the Church.
 
bellasbane said:
You are certainly welcome to your opinion. I’m not trying to silence you simply because I don’t share them. If you have something to add to the conversation, then do so. Share your great knowledge about the history of sisters in the USA - which I believe started in 1809 when St. Elizabeth Ann Seton founded the first U.S. religious community for women - which makes you about 100 years off in your reckoning.

I tire of small minded sexism. Jesus wasn’t offended when a woman told him it was time to start his ministry at Canaan even though he wasn’t planning to do so. Sometimes women are better at judging the times than men. I said at the beginning that I hope there will be reconciliation between the Bishops and the LCWR, one that satisfies both, because I don’t think the alternative is all that great for the Church.
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No. Many of the women’s congregations in the United States, such as the SSJ, were actually founded in France, with some congregations coming from Germany.

And those congregations had the type of apostolates, training, charisms and governments that predominated in American women’s congregations. They are not “orders,” they do not have “rules” and they were founded to serve a particular purpose such as staff a school or a hospital or do a particular kind of work. Sometimes they were very narrowly focused. They have constitutions and statutes but they do not have religious “rules” like the medieval orders.

Go here for the rest of the story: forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=9205042&postcount=70

I’ve already typed the whole thing out once.
 
Moreover, some of them have a founder, but many do not. This is often a surprise to people, but it’s true. These congregations were teaching congregations or nursing congregations; their apostolate was often a key part of their vocational information. Women volunteered for these things.
 
bellasbane said:
You are certainly welcome to your opinion. I’m not trying to silence you simply because I don’t share them. If you have something to add to the conversation, then do so. Share your great knowledge about the history of sisters in the USA - which I believe started in 1809 when St. Elizabeth Ann Seton founded the first U.S. religious community for women - which makes you about 100 years off in your reckoning.

I tire of small minded sexism. Jesus wasn’t offended when a woman told him it was time to start his ministry at Canaan even though he wasn’t planning to do so. Sometimes women are better at judging the times than men. I said at the beginning that I hope there will be reconciliation between the Bishops and the LCWR, one that satisfies both, because I don’t think the alternative is all that great for the Church.
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Go here for the rest of the story: forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=9205042&postcount=70 I’ve already typed the whole thing out once.
 
bellasbane said:
I tire of small minded sexism. Jesus wasn’t offended when a woman told him it was time to start his ministry at Canaan even though he wasn’t planning to do so.
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Jesus started at Canann because His Mother asked him to. Not just any women, but His Mother.
bellasbane said:
Sometimes women are better at judging the times than men. I said at the beginning that I hope there will be reconciliation between the Bishops and the LCWR, one that satisfies both, because I don’t think the alternative is all that great for the Church.
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I don’t see what that has to do with anything. Are you implying that the Church needs to change and that only women can tell? Because when it comes to some of the issues they’re talking about (women’s ordination, matters of sexuality), they are already settled. It doesn’t matter what these women think, it doesn’t even matter what men think (there’re groups of dissenting priests in Austria and Ireland), so this is not some gender issue.

Issues have been settled. It’s time for people to get that through their heads, no matter if they’re a woman or a man.
 
Anna_Claire said:
Weighing in with opinion…for what is worth here.
I think this is going to be formative more than it will be punitive for women religious. The conference was formed because Rome wanted it. Maybe the sisters will simply decide to disband the LCWR and form their own group or groups.
It’s getting rather ugly these days as the hierarchy continues to do things to show their control and power over us, regardless of who gets hurt…and it’s us, the Catholics, getting hurt by all this. If these actions coming out of Rome continue, the damage to unity will be significant. This kind of crusade is ugly and It will not end well.
Click to expand...
Hi Anna Claire,

Since nobody is paying any attention to your post other than to criticize it, I’d like to say I sympathize with your concerns.

You’re absolutely right that overbearing use of Church authority leads to disunity - that’s exactly what Saint Catherine of Sienna had to deal with in Urban VI whose overzealous approach to reform resulted in the Western Schism. Fortunately, if you read Cardinal William Levada’s letter, nowhere do you hear the harsh rhetoric that prevails on this forum. That gives me hope that some sort of reconciliation will take place.
 
bellasbane said:
Hi Anna Claire,

Since nobody is paying any attention to your post other than to criticize it, I’d like to say I sympathize with your concerns.

You’re absolutely right that overbearing use of Church authority leads to disunity - that’s exactly what Saint Catherine of Sienna had to deal with in Urban VI whose overzealous approach to reform resulted in the Western Schism. Fortunately, if you read Cardinal William Levada’s letter, nowhere do you hear the harsh rhetoric that prevails on this forum. That gives me hope that some sort of reconciliation will take place.
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Actually this is no uglier than what’s been going on for a long time, and the sooner we get this mess cleaned up the sooner it won’t be so ugly.

And they need to get rid of the wacky new age keynote speaker. That’s butt-ugly. What a joke.
 
bellasbane said:
Hi Anna Claire,

Since nobody is paying any attention to your post other than to criticize it, I’d like to say I sympathize with your concerns.

You’re absolutely right that overbearing use of Church authority leads to disunity - that’s exactly what Saint Catherine of Sienna had to deal with in Urban VI whose overzealous approach to reform resulted in the Western Schism. Fortunately, if you read Cardinal William Levada’s letter, nowhere do you hear the harsh rhetoric that prevails on this forum. That gives me hope that some sort of reconciliation will take place.
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You probably won’t believe us, but reconciliation is exactly what we want. That is why there is going to be an investigation and reform, to ensure reconciliation.

But of course, others have a different understanding of what that will mean. The LCWR, like the SSPX before them, is going to have to learn that it is not the Vatican that makes concessions. It is the LCWR that is going to have to make changes to bring their advocacy into compliance with Catholic doctrine. The Church gets to decide the doctrine as is Her responsibility.
 
iloveangels said:
Actually this is no uglier than what’s been going on for a long time, and the sooner we get this mess cleaned up the sooner it won’t be so ugly.

And they need to get rid of the wacky new age keynote speaker. That’s butt-ugly. What a joke.
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👍
Our faithful nuns have suffered long enough but it was not all in vain. Thank God their prayers have been answered!
 
DaddyGirl said:
Jason,
Thanks again for the links.
I read them all.

The first two, as you noted, don’t explain what exactly the nuns have said or done that is radically feminist. Still trying to find an article that will explain this.

The second link talks about a group of 100 nuns who were protesting a priest’s excommunication in 2008.
But these 100 nuns seem to come from a different group than this other LCWR group of 60,000 or so that the Vatican is reprimanding. I don’t see “LCWR” next to any names (but you are saying some are members? Are you recognizing them just by names? Do you know how many?)

The third link, the blog talking about Barbara Marx Hubbard…yes, that is linked to the group because she is a speaker at their conference in August.
I can see why that would cause a stir or some confusion.

It does seem odd to have a non-Catholic speaker at a Catholic conference, for sure (Hubbard is described as a “Jewish Agnostic” on wiki). But the panelists for this talk include a highly respected nun in the medical field and a columnist for The National Catholic Reporter (not sure who the guy, Tom Fox, is).

But the thing is…their conference program, as far as I can see, doesn’t say what the talk is intended to express. Perhaps it is meant for a healthy debate aroud Hubbard’s ideas, since the panelists surrounding this talk are definitely Catholic.
But if not…although Hubbard talks about “self evolution” and of cosmic stuff and uses terms that are not in the Catholic realm, it doesn’t seem like she is espousing “radical feminist” or anti-Catholic ideas (if she is, I can’t see any so far…please point out.).

(note: It does seem unfair for the blogger to call Hubbard a quack, though. She’s a political science cum laude graduate from Bryn Mawr, with gigs at the Sorbonne and Dalton, etc)

It sure would be great if the Vatican would give more details as to why they say what they say so we can all understand more.

Do you think they have or will?
Wonder if they have or will publish the full report.
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How far back do you want to go? This is a video of Sr. Teresa Kane throwing it up in the face of PJP2 in 1979. At the time, she was the president of the LCWR. I’d say the Vatican has been VERRRRY patient and many laypeople agree with that assessment.

youtube.com/watch?v=L6l12EvpBv8

Also, yes, there has been protest over protest over a particular priest and his dealings with the CDF over women’s ordination. Those sisters are members of congregations who belong to the LCWR. You’re getting the congregation they belong to confused with the umbrella organization, LCWR. This is because you don’t understand how the structure works.

And perhaps you haven’t seen the material about that keynote speaker in enough detail.
 
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