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Other_Eric
Guest
Hi contemplative!
The problem is that the scandal is disproportionately homosexual in nature. There is nothing similar in the world of heterosexual priests.
Vatican Document Forbidding Homosexuals to Priesthood Ready for Release
- Status
The problem is that the scandal is disproportionately homosexual in nature. There is nothing similar in the world of heterosexual priests.
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YinYangMom
Guest
Other Eric:
if it’s consentual between women and their heterosexual priests, perhaps they prefer to keep it to themselves…for whatever reasons.
There have been scattered stories of heterosexual priests with girls, but that doesn’t seem to attract media attention… perhaps because the media prefers the homosexual angle as a means to damage the Church’s celibacy policy the most.
Well that could be because of the media or the victims…
if it’s consentual between women and their heterosexual priests, perhaps they prefer to keep it to themselves…for whatever reasons.
There have been scattered stories of heterosexual priests with girls, but that doesn’t seem to attract media attention… perhaps because the media prefers the homosexual angle as a means to damage the Church’s celibacy policy the most.
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AlanFromWichita
Guest
If you don’t agree with me, then you actually think it’s OK to have priests reading Playgirl or otherwise perusing pictures of attractive men?
Why would they do that? Under the guise of “research” or something?
Do you think they actually have to perform an act with another male before we are concerned?
Alan
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contemplative
Guest
Not at all.
These days especially the media would prefer a Vatican document forbidding homosexuals to priesthood. It would fit the whole pro-gay hype today. It seems the pro-gay media hype has no end in sight. It might subside somewhat if US homosexuals are allowed gay legal unions.
C
contemplative
Guest
CHAPTER XXXIII
HOLY ORDERS AND THE MASS
THE FUNCTION of a priest is to offer sacrifice to God on behalf of men. The value of the sacrifice depends upon the nature of the priesthood and the quality of the sacrifice. Between God and His creation there is only one Priest and He is Christ. The nature of His Priesthood is that He is both God and Man, and as such is the Infinite Worshipper of God in the finite vestments of His humanity. The quality of His sacrifice is in the quality of Himself, because what He sacrificed is Himself. Hence the sacrifice is finite in quality and the Priesthood is unique. There is no other, and all priests are priests because they share in it. They share in that Priesthood through the Sacrament of Holy Orders. Hence it is a Sacrament by which the Priesthood of Christ is exercised through men.
The sacrifice of the Christ Priest is the sacrifice of Calvary. Sinceall priests share in the Priesthood of Christ it is their function to offer the sacrifice of Calvary. They do this, as we saw in chapter xii, in the Mass, not of themselves but because Christ does it through them. They have no other essential function but this-to consecrate bread and wine so that they become Christ’s Body and Blood, to offer Christ thus present on the altar to His heavenly Father, to communicate Christ thus present to the faithful. Other functions arc allied or derived. They are true ministers, but secondary ones; the primary minister is Christ. By the Sacrament of Holy Orders Christ perpetuates His sacrifice on Calvary, through the Mass, which the recipients of the Sacrament are, now empowered to offer. Each time the Mass is offered, Christ is offered to His Father as He offered Himself on Calvary. As a result, God receives infinite praise and worship on behalf of us; infinite thanksgiving; infinite appeasement; and it is the most noble prayer we are capable of offering.
The Mass, then, is continuous Calvary, in the sense it is that it is said at every hour all over the world. In a sense it is the completion of Calvary. The Mass on Calvary redeemed man once and for all, but our daily Calvary in the Mass makes this redemption individually our own. We appropriate to ourselves what Christ has won for us. The Mass is the embrace of the crucified Christ. The hands outstretched by the nails and are nailed to the wood. The Mass is the outstretching of our hands to His. By it we fulfill in our individual selves what He has won for us all. No matter who we are, hardened centurions or Pilates, tough criminals or timid Nicodemuses, this will affect us. Whether we are neurotic or tepid or fervent each Mass will do something for us. For we stand with the suffering Mother of Christ beneath the Cross of her Son and hear the cry of the humanity of Christ, the great “ Eloi, of the forsaken One and the Lonely. On the Lonely had come the affliction of being forgotten, of not received by His very own, of having His Priesthood abandoned by Judas, of receiving hate from the world which He loved so much. All about Him had been created in His image and likeness. He was their King, the pride of humanity, as He lay upon His wooden throne and the crown of thorns was on His brow. On the Forsaken descended the sins of the world. There is no mental pain which does not find its echo here in the Calvary of the Mass. Your mental sufferings are in the mind of the Crucified Christ. The mind of Christ suffers in your mental crucifixion.
Here is the poem and paradox of human suffering…
Christ suffers on the Cross because creatures have put him there. Hence all must suffer. But the Mass is the Sacrament of suffering. It is the outward sign of the inward grace whereby Christ is crucified in our sorrow. All who attend it have their sorrows unite with the sorrows of the Crucified Christ.
This chapter is taken from Neuroses and Sacraments by Alan Keenan O.F.M. publish date 1950 Nihil Obstat: Feorguius Smith, S.T.D. Ph.D Fr. Germnaus Heron. O.F.M. Ph.D Fr. Hugo McKay O.F. M. S.T.D.Impritur: E. Morrogh Bernard Vic.Gen. Fr. Paulinus Lavery, O.F.M.
HOLY ORDERS AND THE MASS
THE FUNCTION of a priest is to offer sacrifice to God on behalf of men. The value of the sacrifice depends upon the nature of the priesthood and the quality of the sacrifice. Between God and His creation there is only one Priest and He is Christ. The nature of His Priesthood is that He is both God and Man, and as such is the Infinite Worshipper of God in the finite vestments of His humanity. The quality of His sacrifice is in the quality of Himself, because what He sacrificed is Himself. Hence the sacrifice is finite in quality and the Priesthood is unique. There is no other, and all priests are priests because they share in it. They share in that Priesthood through the Sacrament of Holy Orders. Hence it is a Sacrament by which the Priesthood of Christ is exercised through men.
The sacrifice of the Christ Priest is the sacrifice of Calvary. Sinceall priests share in the Priesthood of Christ it is their function to offer the sacrifice of Calvary. They do this, as we saw in chapter xii, in the Mass, not of themselves but because Christ does it through them. They have no other essential function but this-to consecrate bread and wine so that they become Christ’s Body and Blood, to offer Christ thus present on the altar to His heavenly Father, to communicate Christ thus present to the faithful. Other functions arc allied or derived. They are true ministers, but secondary ones; the primary minister is Christ. By the Sacrament of Holy Orders Christ perpetuates His sacrifice on Calvary, through the Mass, which the recipients of the Sacrament are, now empowered to offer. Each time the Mass is offered, Christ is offered to His Father as He offered Himself on Calvary. As a result, God receives infinite praise and worship on behalf of us; infinite thanksgiving; infinite appeasement; and it is the most noble prayer we are capable of offering.
The Mass, then, is continuous Calvary, in the sense it is that it is said at every hour all over the world. In a sense it is the completion of Calvary. The Mass on Calvary redeemed man once and for all, but our daily Calvary in the Mass makes this redemption individually our own. We appropriate to ourselves what Christ has won for us. The Mass is the embrace of the crucified Christ. The hands outstretched by the nails and are nailed to the wood. The Mass is the outstretching of our hands to His. By it we fulfill in our individual selves what He has won for us all. No matter who we are, hardened centurions or Pilates, tough criminals or timid Nicodemuses, this will affect us. Whether we are neurotic or tepid or fervent each Mass will do something for us. For we stand with the suffering Mother of Christ beneath the Cross of her Son and hear the cry of the humanity of Christ, the great “ Eloi, of the forsaken One and the Lonely. On the Lonely had come the affliction of being forgotten, of not received by His very own, of having His Priesthood abandoned by Judas, of receiving hate from the world which He loved so much. All about Him had been created in His image and likeness. He was their King, the pride of humanity, as He lay upon His wooden throne and the crown of thorns was on His brow. On the Forsaken descended the sins of the world. There is no mental pain which does not find its echo here in the Calvary of the Mass. Your mental sufferings are in the mind of the Crucified Christ. The mind of Christ suffers in your mental crucifixion.
Here is the poem and paradox of human suffering…
Christ suffers on the Cross because creatures have put him there. Hence all must suffer. But the Mass is the Sacrament of suffering. It is the outward sign of the inward grace whereby Christ is crucified in our sorrow. All who attend it have their sorrows unite with the sorrows of the Crucified Christ.
This chapter is taken from Neuroses and Sacraments by Alan Keenan O.F.M. publish date 1950 Nihil Obstat: Feorguius Smith, S.T.D. Ph.D Fr. Germnaus Heron. O.F.M. Ph.D Fr. Hugo McKay O.F. M. S.T.D.Impritur: E. Morrogh Bernard Vic.Gen. Fr. Paulinus Lavery, O.F.M.
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AlanFromWichita
Guest
Sometimes I wonder which they want more: the Church to change, or an excuse to keep hating her.
Somehow I bet if they get gay legal unions they would immediately move to whatever the next step is. I’m not sure what that would be exactly, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it had to do with tax code.
Alan
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Catholic29
Guest
Maybe they will be nagging the Church to open the Sacrament of Matrimony for them, as the Rainbow Sash people have been rabble rousing ever more intensly for as of late, through profaning the Eucharist no less. Somehow I think their tactics won’t be flying to well in Rome, especially while you-know-who is on Peter’s throne.
But as they say, you give them an inch, they will always be looking for a mile.
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CreosMary
Guest
I could not open this link as firefox is playing up but I doubt its authenticity.
Any man who is called to the Priesthood, is faithful to the magisterium and vows to chastity should be considered on his merits not his inclinations.
The bad Priests of the past are a result of lack of faith and bad seminary training.
With JP2’s Theology of the body still to be unpacked I dont think you will see Roma making blanket decisions such as this.
Many Holy men and saints have had this inclination, have surpassed it and reached Holiness.
God bless any good candiditate
Br CreosMary
Any man who is called to the Priesthood, is faithful to the magisterium and vows to chastity should be considered on his merits not his inclinations.
The bad Priests of the past are a result of lack of faith and bad seminary training.
With JP2’s Theology of the body still to be unpacked I dont think you will see Roma making blanket decisions such as this.
Many Holy men and saints have had this inclination, have surpassed it and reached Holiness.
God bless any good candiditate
Br CreosMary
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HagiaSophia
Guest
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contemplative
Guest
C
contemplative
Guest
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Edwin1961
Guest
So let’s take this point and place it in the context of SSAD.
A person of SSDA, according to the Church soon, may not become a priest. Then unless the person is ‘cured’ the SSDA person will have the choice of Marriage (with a female that is).
WHat the Church should really do in earnest and in haste is to start PROMITING and raising the “Single” status with some recognition and validity. I realize that it’s the Parish Level that needs the Most work on promoting the Single Vocation.
Just think how many MORE people will be participating in the Parishes if the Single people would return to the Catholic Church?
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AlanFromWichita
Guest
If the Church doesn’t want to marry someone with SSA, why would she let them marry one of her daughters?
Is this how we guide our young women? Could this lead to their making bad choices for themselves?
Alan
Is this how we guide our young women? Could this lead to their making bad choices for themselves?
Alan
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Other_Eric
Guest
Hi CreosMary!
You may find thieves, murderers, traitors and all manner of human filth but, as far as I know, the calendar of saints is devoid of even one who openly admitted to a struggle with same-sex attraction. Is that not instructive? I encourage you to educate what I presume is my own ignorance by referring to a specific saint and providing some type of authoritative citation.
C
contemplative
Guest
Other Eric:
It will be interesting to see if CreoMary delivers. I doubt he/she will. I have never come across a saint who struggled with same-sex attraction.
A
AlanFromWichita
Guest
A non-Catholic friend who used to be coworker at Lucent, asked me the other day if another supposedly Protestant friend of his was correct in saying that all references to homosexual being bad are in the OT. I asked what Bible version, he said he didn’t know but if I could give him NT quotes in a Protestant version of some sort, then he would pass them along.
Gladly. It took about one minute to locat Rom 1:26-27 and quoted in NIV and KJV. In context, the NAB version is:
But what’s up with that? I thought Protestant supposedly knew their Bibles better than cradle Catholics.
Big deal. Big gay Bible thumper. Gosh, maybe he wasn’t gay but just wanted to vote for the gay civil union or something because he saw no harm in it. I forgot the details, but thank God my friend is there to intervene for him and inform him of the Truth.
Alan
Gladly. It took about one minute to locat Rom 1:26-27 and quoted in NIV and KJV. In context, the NAB version is:
How can even sola scriptura people misinterpret that? It is quite clear to me. It seems I would have to hire a slick lawyer to help me misunderstand this to mean there is no NT restriction on gay behavior.
But what’s up with that? I thought Protestant supposedly knew their Bibles better than cradle Catholics.
Big deal. Big gay Bible thumper. Gosh, maybe he wasn’t gay but just wanted to vote for the gay civil union or something because he saw no harm in it. I forgot the details, but thank God my friend is there to intervene for him and inform him of the Truth.
Alan
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oat_soda
Guest
i think the biggest reason for not letting a homosexual into the priesthood is the fact that Jesus wasn’t effeminate and had a normal sexuality- he was a real man. priests need to be leaders and a guy who acts like a ‘homo’ isn’t going to be a good leader and neither will a priest who trys to hide it. effeminate ‘gay’ priests kill vocations and make the catholic church look bad. ideally, priests should be confident and completely heterosexual, i.e. real men.
i think homosexuals are attracted to the priesthood because they feel that since they do not want a wife, they should be priests. but, this is a wrong reason. to be truly called to the priesthood you must sacrifice the possiblity of a wife which every normal man desires. this sacrifice is what the priesthood is all about. not a place for those with disordered sexualities to find belonging.
i think homosexuals are attracted to the priesthood because they feel that since they do not want a wife, they should be priests. but, this is a wrong reason. to be truly called to the priesthood you must sacrifice the possiblity of a wife which every normal man desires. this sacrifice is what the priesthood is all about. not a place for those with disordered sexualities to find belonging.
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Friar_David_O.Carm
Guest
Now I am not saying this becuase I don’t believe you but I am saying it beacuse there is no way to know it.
oat soda:
I have known some men that you could call effeminate but they were not homosexuals in any way. They are happily married with children and great providers.
oat soda:
How do we know this?
I have known some men that you could call effeminate but they were not homosexuals in any way. They are happily married with children and great providers.
You seem to have issues on this topic.
C
contemplative
Guest
This is true. I have a cousin who I would swear is a homosexual by his mannerisms but he has been married almost 40 years…has children. This is not uncommon.
When I was about 12 I read one of Bishop Fulton Sheen’s books and it changed my life. I never saw the man until I viewed a rerun of one his old TV shows 10 years later. Well I hate to say it on these threads and I am not sure if I can but Bishop Fulton Sheen struck me as being very … well…you know?
C
contemplative
Guest
oat soda:
NAMBLA fits really well into the excessively homosexual priesthood/priest scandal/ gay activitist pushing for marriage business.
When I put these 4 things together 1. NAMBLA 2. exessively homosexual priesthood 3. priest scandal 4. gay activist - not only do I want to see a document forbidding homosexual priests but I want to see current homosexual priests defrocked.
I instinctively want to think all these things you write…especially after discovering NAMBLA today. I can’t believe I didn’t know about NAMBLA 216.220.97.17/
NAMBLA fits really well into the excessively homosexual priesthood/priest scandal/ gay activitist pushing for marriage business.
When I put these 4 things together 1. NAMBLA 2. exessively homosexual priesthood 3. priest scandal 4. gay activist - not only do I want to see a document forbidding homosexual priests but I want to see current homosexual priests defrocked.
- Status