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bobzills
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This is your belief, but I don’t see any proof that they could not exit.
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Holly3278
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Yes, it is my belief and it is only my belief. It is not doctrine or dogma and I never stated that it was. I just personally think there’d be some major philosophical problems with aliens with souls existing.
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bobzills
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What would be the problem? Apparently some of the authorities in the Vatican do not agree with you on this. Don’t they know a little about theology?
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Holly3278
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Well, if aliens have souls then they must have some way of being saved too right? That is, of course, unless they don’t have a fallen nature. Did Jesus die for these aliens with souls too? See, it just seems like a very sticky matter to me.
And besides, just because the Vatican’s Chief Astronomer said that it is ok for Catholics to believe in aliens doesn’t mean that it is ok to believe in aliens with souls. As far as I know, the Vatican has never issued a statement regarding that.
But anyway, I don’t really wish to debate it here. I agree with whatever the Vatican teaches as doctrine or dogma. And if the Vatican’s Chief Astronomer is truly teaching sound doctrine about this then so be it. Let people believe in aliens if they want to. I just choose not to. After all, it’s not a dogma that we must believe in aliens.
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Seeking_God
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Such as? or how do you account for Runes belief in “the big bang” theory instead of the Biblical account of creation? If they openly admit this alien belief, evolution? Honestly, ask yourself what exactly is being pedalled here by Rome …there is a saying, _ _ _ _ rolls down hill. How far down the hill has it been taught?
I know there is Gods Heavenly Kingdom, Jesus told us. The Apostles existed. Jesus told us angels exist. Jesus told us, because through everything was made. Nothing was made without Jesus.
I do not believe such a lie put forth by the Vatican.
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Holly3278
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Umm, I hate to tell you this but the Vatican as a whole does not lie. Yes, a bishop or a priest may put forth something to believe that is not orthodox doctrine but that does not meant that the Vatican is lying. The Magisterium cannot and will not ever lie or produce false doctrine as it is protected by the Holy Spirit from teaching error.
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bobzills
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I don’t see where it would be a contradiction to say that there may exist entities which are not mentioned in the Bible? For example, I think that there are certain types of living organisms and chemical compunds which are not mentioned in the Bible. And isn’t the Bible silent on the atomic structure of matter? And of course, there is no mention in the Scriptures of computers or automobiles.
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Seeking_God
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No, not when the Vatican should preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour. Not that its ok for Catholics to believe in aliens. It is spiritual poison to the flock. You will know them by their fruits.
Glory be to God
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bobzills
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I am not sure about this, since the Catholic Church actually does teach a lot of good things. For example, each day we are to say our prayers which include an act of Faith, an act of Hope and an act of Charity. I don;t see what is wrong with a daily recital and calling to mind of these three virtues and how they fit into our daily lives.
And getting back to your statement about the Bible, do you really thing that we will find everything in the Bible? Are you strongly opposed to having a Christmas tree in your house to celebrate Christmas? And what about Christmas carols or songs to celebrate the season? Does the Bible mention any of these Christmas carols? Since it doesn’t, what is your conclusion on the tradition of celebrating Christmas?
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Seeking_God
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That itself is the contradiction. That statement says, we know more than God. The excuse being used to justify that idea is. Since God does not mention such entities. Man is now taking it upon ourselves to prove our knowledge is above Gods. By saying God, we know their is things You never told us about. And because You did not tell us these things. They, therefore exist.
Thats the qualification which proves aliens exist? The Word of God has been revealed to us: Genesis to Revelation. Jesus by His Holy Being would have
told us if their were aliens who existed
No, because we exist. Aliens do not…
Daniel 12:4But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.
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LilyM
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You just made bobz’s point with that one. What it means in so many words is that we know more now than the writers of the OT and NT did. Not about God, of course, but about the natural world and the natural universe around us. They didn’t even know Pluto existed for one (it’s invisible to the naked eye) but we do. Clearly that includes the physical existence or not of aliens.
As to whether or not they exist - it makes no more difference than the fact that animals exist. Animals have souls, in a sense, since the soul is what gives them life. Of course they don’t have IMMORTAL souls and they ain’t made in God’s image and likeness.
Aliens likewise probably wouldn’t have immortal souls - we only know of humans and angels who do - but I don’t think we claim that it’s impossible for other creatures that we don’t yet know of to have 'em, and it makes no difference in regards our salvation or relationship with God.
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NeedImprovement
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I believe the above quote has just provided one of the main answers to a question I asked earlier in the thread about why none of the “space” movies do a serious take on God : The part about humans having offspring with aliens - you wouldn’t be able to resolve the “immortal human soul issue” without creating a heated controversy hence taking a huge loss in $ales at the box office.
The problem with taking aliens too seriously is that, like the theory of evolution (as my spiritual director pointed out to me), it is an arrogant theory.
The flip-side of this coin is that it detracts from our human dignity. Remember…male and female we were created in God’s image . God himself is the only one who knows the value of a human soul…because He put some of Himself into each one. How valuable is a human soul?..Precious enough that if there were only ever one human soul that existed, Christ would have still come and endured the same suffering as his bitter passion and death to save it.
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NeedImprovement
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I apologize to my fellow members. I re-read the posts several times but still haven’t been able to make the “jump” from the aliens planet to the Pope John Paul II bashing asteroid…obviously a major malfunction of the transporter system…“Beam me up Scotty…”
(ps. For anyone else who missed it : mdgspenser has a sense of humor.)
(ps. For anyone else who missed it : mdgspenser has a sense of humor.)
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ChristIsTheWay
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That was very interesting. Oddly enough, in one of his last books Carl Sagan actually talks extensively about the link between the modern UFO phenomenon and the demon/succubus phenomenon of centuries past. He thought it had some psychological or medical explanation but I believe there is a very strong possibility of genuine demonic activity happening. Of course, the existence of demons leading humans astray under the guise of benevolent alien leadership says nothing about whether or not God created life elsewhere in the universe. If such life exists, I do not believe it has ever contacted us. I also suspect that such life is as ignorant of our existence as we are of its.
Gene Roddenberry was an atheist and a humanist. You’ll notice the difference between The Original Series and The Next Generation. TOS was made in the 1960s, where if Roddenberry had made his atheism a major component of the show, he’d probably have been branded a communist and ruined. Fast forward to the late 1980s and early 1990s and one finds the TNG universe is very atheistic, devoid of anything genuinely supernatural. There’s a lot to criticize about Star Trek in that regard as well some of the other strange beliefs that Roddenberry made a part of Star Trek but if one can look past that, it is good entertainment. I always liked Star Wars better.
Thanks!
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ChristIsTheWay
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That’s a big goof on the part of writers that create those plots. Biology tells us we can only reproduce fertile offspring with a member of our own species. These movies that involve humans and aliens having babies aren’t really involving any aliens, just strange-looking humans having babies with normal-looking humans. The problem with a lot of science fiction is that quite a few of the authors and writers are atheists or otherwise very skeptical of religion. That spills over into their work, like it did with Roddenberry. Throw in the fact that most science fiction writers have no formal training in the sciences and you get a product that is entertaining but often not terribly accurate from a theological or scientific perspective.
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Seeking_God
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Absolutely!!! Because it’s Gods revealing HImself to us. And how we should live by His Commandments and Laws
No tree. The tradition of Christmas, is based upon mans tradition of lies. We lie to our children, so they will believe in a santa claus. How does that lie get promoted? Better watch out/better not pout, because Santa claus is coming to town. He knows if you are sleeping, he knows when you’re awake. He knows if you have been bad or good. Stop right there.
How can we teach our children, Faith Trust and belief in God? When the kids find out santa claus is not real, and we lied to them about a santa.
Do the Jewish people of Israel celebrate Christmas? No.
christiananswers.net/christmas/mythsaboutchristmas.html
Was Jesus born on December 25, or in December at all? Although it’s not impossible, it seems unlikely. The Bible does not specify a date or month. One problem with December is that it would be unusual for shepherds to be “abiding in the field” at this cold time of year when fields were unproductive. The normal practice was to keep the flocks in the fields from Spring to Autumn. Also, winter would likely be an especially difficult time for pregnant Mary to travel the long distance from Nazareth to Bethlehem (70 miles).
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"A more probable time would be late September, the time of the annual Feast of Tabernacles, when such travel was commonly accepted. Thus, it is rather commonly believed (though not certain) that Jesus' birth was around the last of September. The conception of Christ, however, may have taken place in late December of the previous year. Our Christmas celebration may well be recognized as an honored observation of the incarnation of 'the Word made flesh' (John 1:14).The date was chosen by the Roman Catholic Church. Because Rome dominated most of the “Christian” world for centuries, the date became tradition throughout most of Christendom.
So, why was December 25 chosen to remember Jesus Christ’s birth with a mass (or Communion supper)? Since no one knows the day of his birth, the Roman Catholic Church felt free to chose this date. The Church wished to replace the pagan festival with a Christian holy day.
When Was Jesus Born?
Was it really on December 25th?
lamblion.com/articles/articles_first3.php
Prophetic Facts About the Nativity
Prophecies fulfilled when Jesus was born.
lamblion.com/articles/articles_first5.php
A total of 18 Bible prophecies were fulfilled at the birth of Jesus in Bethlehem.
The Bethlehem Miracle
Jesus’ birth as a testimony of God’s faithfulness.
lamblion.com/articles/articles_first1.php
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bobzills
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Does the Bible mention dinosaurs?
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bobzills
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OK. I like your consistency here.
Still, I really think that there are things that are not mentioned in the Bible. For another example, there are vaccinations that we have to take according to state law. Does the Bible say anything about vaccinations? And did the Bible accept slavery or did it encourage people to fight against it?
I’m not against the Bible, which of course, is a rich source which we should all consult and study and read and contemplate on what is being presented. I’m just saying that it might not be a bad idea to take things in their context.
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Seeking_God
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Yes!!
Genesis 1:24And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
Genesis 1:25And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
Job 40:15Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox.
Job 40:16Lo now, his strength is in his loins, and his force is in the navel of his belly.
Job 40:17He moveth his tail like a cedar: the sinews of his stones are wrapped together.
Job 40:18His bones are as strong pieces of brass; his bones are like bars of iron.
Moving or swinging a tail like a cedar tree: = behemoth = dinosaur.
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GodsGadfly
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I think the real point of the article is lost in the many headlines and in this discussion: every time there’s been a major discovery that’s seemed to “contradict” the Bible, three things have happened: a) those inclined to skepticism and atheism have jumped on it to say “Ha! We’ve finally disproved the BIble!”, b) the Church has asked for time to deliberate the situation and c) laity and many clergy react and say, “This is devastating! OBviously, it must not be true!” Everyone throws the Galileo case around, but the problem with Galileo was twofold: a) he demanded that Genesis be rewritten and b) the Church just asked that the new discoveries be disseminated gradually.
Let’s look at a couple others, before Galileo. WHen they proved the earth was round, this happened . When they found Native AMericans, this happened. Whether “evolution” is how God made creation or whether He molded everything directly out of clay, God still did it. How is a “big bang” different from “Let there be Light!”?
What this priest is saying is that, philosophically, we need to prepare ourselves for the possibility that we might encounter alien life. As someone else noted, C. S. Lewis put a great deal of effort into considering that possibility, writing about it a few places in his non-fiction, and writing both his science fiction trilogy and the Narnia books to illustrate it.
“Personally, I don’t think there is other intelligent life out there”
Then you don’t believe in angels?
Angels are actually a very good example. Lewis’s argument was that, if other sentient life does exist, God would have created such beings for a reason. Either they’re other varieties of humans (as in Perelandra), and their salvation is somehow tied to ours. Or else they’re completely different species, and God created them to have a different relationship with them. I would say that it’s very likely that, if we did encounter aliens with immortal souls, we would probably still be unable to communicate with them.
Let’s look at a couple others, before Galileo. WHen they proved the earth was round, this happened . When they found Native AMericans, this happened. Whether “evolution” is how God made creation or whether He molded everything directly out of clay, God still did it. How is a “big bang” different from “Let there be Light!”?
What this priest is saying is that, philosophically, we need to prepare ourselves for the possibility that we might encounter alien life. As someone else noted, C. S. Lewis put a great deal of effort into considering that possibility, writing about it a few places in his non-fiction, and writing both his science fiction trilogy and the Narnia books to illustrate it.
“Personally, I don’t think there is other intelligent life out there”
Then you don’t believe in angels?
Angels are actually a very good example. Lewis’s argument was that, if other sentient life does exist, God would have created such beings for a reason. Either they’re other varieties of humans (as in Perelandra), and their salvation is somehow tied to ours. Or else they’re completely different species, and God created them to have a different relationship with them. I would say that it’s very likely that, if we did encounter aliens with immortal souls, we would probably still be unable to communicate with them.
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