Vatican officials encouraging push to stop communion for pro-abort pols

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Fink said:
Regarding the Confessional, these politicians are PUBLIC sinners; and that makes all of the difference between them and us. Theyve caused scandal! They thumb their noses at the Church, and make her a laughing stock. Theyve brought discredit on her. To outsiders, the Church looks just like a toothless windbag! :(.
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More importantly, bishops & priests who do not adhere to Canon 915 cause scandal due to disobedience to Canon law, thereby making the Catholic Church look like an organization that lies to itself due to a system of beliefs that they themselves deeply question. I think the message is worse than “toothless windbag”. I think the message is “lying windbag”. The lie is particularly about the Real Presence of Jesus at the point of Consecration, just as the pro-abort elected officials publicly profess their denial of the real presence of a person with a soul at the point of conception. It is very insidious, diabolical message.
 
ANNE_2 said:
Voting records are public. Voting in Congress, and also approval by the President are public actions. Voting records speak the ‘truth’.
Politicians must be held accountable by their actions, not just their statements which may merely be lies and pandering to get re-elected.
priestsforlife.org/magisterium/bishops/04-07ratzingerommunion.htm
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Voting records are complicated issues. What if a politician said they believe abortion is protected by the Constitution so they will not vote for any unConstitutional laws but they would vote in favor of a Constitutional Amendment to protect life from the moment of conception? What do we do with that individual?
One good reason the world is in such a mess - regarding Relativism and Secularism - is because public Mortal sins and Scandal have not been corrected, and repentance has not been required.
Every poltician can do their “own” thing by this lack of correction.
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Relativism has been around since the dawn of man. Secularism has been around for hundreds of years. These aren’t new problems.
The Church’s teachings will not change regarding murder - abortion, euthanasia, etc and public funding of such. “Thou shall not kill”.
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No one here is arguing otherwise…
ALL Bishops, and ALL of us, will not get to eternal Heaven, which must be our main goal in life.
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And you know that how? Hell is indeed a real possibility, but its also possibly empty.
 
Fink said:
That seems like a red herring.
There are grey areas with skirt length; there`s no grey area with abortion!
These politicians are PUBLICLY advocating abortion which is MURDER, regardless of the period in History!
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Its no red herring. Its a real issue of concern for bishops and the Holy Father.
 
EmperorNapoleon said:
If Judas was allowed to partake in the first communion then why not pro-choice politicians?
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I think the key to this question is the difference between private & public sin, and whether the public sin draws others into their sin. I disagree with your contention that a sin is a sin is a sin, regardless of whether it is private or public. Judas, despite the fact that he betrayed Our Lord, never returned to the Holy Eucharist to say “I was within my rights to betray Jesus. Therefore, give me the Bread of Life.”. Remember, too, Our Lord gave the Holy Eucharist to Saint Peter, knowing that he would deny Him three times after promising that he would defend him with his very life. There are categories of public sins: 1) those that you acknowledge but do not seek forgiveness, 2) those that you acknowledge and do seek forgiveness, and 3) those that you publicly defend as acting uprightly, regardless of private acknowledgement. Judas & Peter were guilty of public sin, but neither were guilty of that last one.
 
EmperorNapoleon said:
If Judas was allowed to partake in the first communion then why not pro-choice politicians?
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Reading my prior post, I still find weaknesses in my argument. Let me augment my arguments with these two observations:
  1. At the Last Supper, despite the fact that Our Lord pronounced that the Bread & Wine was His Body & Blood, none of the apostles really understood what they were being taught. So no arguments about proper disposition to receiving the Holy Eucharist apply to the Apostles.
  2. Judas publicly acknowledged his crime, by throwing the thirty pieces of silver back.
  3. Canon 915 would have been observed by Jesus, since He knew that Judas would publicly renounce his actions.
 
estesbob said:
It is not very hard to look in the heart of somebody who supports unrestricted taxpayer funded abortion on demand and then presents himself for Communion
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Canon 915 is less about protecting the heart of the offender as to the effect of the public offender on the hearts of others. It’s like saying… Look at me. I’m a brave new Catholic. I’m walking off a cliff, and I know God will save me. Come walk with me.
 
Carlan said:
Yes, I understand that, but why do you suppose the Bishops do not call them out publicly?
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Fungible fundamentals. The principle that one should be prudent in money matters by safeguarding access to shared public funds by selectively bypassing the sharing of certain Catholic fundamentals.

It’s the “den of thieves” aspect of the “all are welcome” mentality. Someone ought to take a whip to 'em.
 
Judas had not committed the Mortal Sin of Scandal at the time of the Last Supper. In fact, his plans of betrayal were secret at that time. Holy Communion can not be denied for what may or may not be thought to be in one’s mind and heart. - Only actions that are publically known. (Bishops and Priests are not mind readers.)
If Judas went to Hell, it does not mean we should follow him there. Just as we should not follow the examples of Hitler or Lenin or Stalin.

No one should receive Our Lord while in the State of Mortal Sin.
The serious mortal sins of Sacrilege and Scandal, not to mention the mortal sins of supporting/encouraging - abortion, euthanasia, homosexual marriage, fornication, adultary, etc, must be corrected.
If any politician or other person who is obstinate in his/herknown mortal sins and does not repent, then he/she should be forbidden Holy Communion.

Good Catholics believe in right and wrong. We believe in absolute TRUTH.
We do not believe in ‘Relativism’ - the concept that points of view have no absolute truth or validity, having only relative, subjective value according to differences in perception and consideration. The term is often used to refer to the context of moral principle, where in a relativistic mode of thought, principles and ethics are regarded as applicable in only limited context

Code of Canon Law - “915 Those who have been excommunicated or interdicted after the imposition or declaration of the penalty and others obstinately persevering in manifest grave sin are not to be admitted to holy communion.”
(The entire Code of Canon Law can be found on the Vatican web site.)
 
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