Vatican proposes EU as example of Social Doctrine

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Vouthon said:
I’ve yet to encounter a right-wing nationalist movement that I could ever regard as “good”
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Well we could talk about examples and whether the term ‘right-wing’ makes sense.

I would wish to add that not all Left wing Nationalists succumb to violence and are examples of bad nationalism.

Your own Scottish National Party is an example of a Left wing nationalist group that while possessing the characteristics of Left wing nationalists outlined above, have not in any way ( I know) been promoting the evil that has come out of that side of politics. They should be commended.
 
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abucs said:
Your own Scottish National Party is an example of a Left wing nationalist group that while possessing the characteristics of Left wing nationalists outlined above, have not in any way ( I know) been promoting the evil that has come out of that side of politics. They should be commended.
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On that we agree.

The SNP have been neck-and-shoulders above most of our main parties here in the UK in their response to the Brexit fall-out.

They are one of the few parties that have, miraculously, kept their dignity in tact. I expect them, as per recent polling, to do very well in the coming European elections and deservedly so.

Yes, they are a left-wing nationalist movement with a platform that combines a kind of moderate “civic” nationalism with pro-Europeanism.

I’m not a traditional voter of their party, nor did I back Scottish Independence in 2014, but I don’t view the SNP as representing any kind of “bad” nationalism.

In terms of right-wing nationalisms, though, I’ve honestly never encountered a manifestation of it that I could view as being in any way commendable.

There is a world of difference separating Nigel Farage from Nicola Sturgeon. Never the twain shall meet.
 
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And with one ungainly blow, I managed to ethnicly stereotype and offend the sensibilities of both London and Scotland 😄

(Myself being a Scot who lives for much of the year in London, no less.)

My diplomacy knows no bounds.

I better not say anything about the Russians or @(name removed by moderator) will leather into me.
 
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Heaven is where the police are British , the lovers French , the mechanics German, the chefs Italian, and it is all organized by the Swiss.

Hell is where the police are German, the lovers Swiss, the mechanics French , the chefs British , and it is all organized by the Italians .
 
Squeak? Ouch!
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Ahem, I know I’m treading on egg-shells here, but I guess you haven’t heard former ‘Eastenders’ soap star, Joe Swash, speaking yet


Compare with Alyn Smith MEP, the outspoken Scottish SNP member of the European Parliament and his majestic pro-EU speech a couple of weeks ago:


And this delightful promotional of Scotland to the EU:

😜

Contrary to the other American poster’s apparent fears, I reckon he neednae fash himsel’ about Scots speaking like Cockneys any time soon.

OK, now I’m off to hide under a rock to escape the stones being thrown my way 🙈

Actually, I love the good ole’ Cockney charm and swagger, all kidding aside. It’s a really distinctive dialect and I like hearing it when I’m out and about in the capital.
 
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Contrary to queen’s English purists, there is no “ideal” way of speaking.

It is the nature of language to develop, change and adapt to foreign loan-words.

Germanic Old English grew to become heavily influenced by Norman French and other influxes, as it passed through Middle English to modern English.

Linguistic and dialectic diversity is beautiful, and I think it is specious to declare a particular way of pronouncing words in a certain region “problematic”.

I’m more irked by British youngsters adopting Californiaesque Americanisms like “gurlz” as opposed to “girls” than I am with them adopting a Cockney “f” tbh.

Even though, to be perfectly honest, I’m not a linguistic purist and so don’t really fash m’self either way.
 
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Vouthon has it right:
Vouthon said:
Contrary to queen’s English purists, there is no “ideal” way of speaking.
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There is no way to distinguish “proper” pronunciation. There are a number of standard pronunciation schemes, and there are a number of non-standard ones. Different pronunciations are appropriate to different groups and to different registers.

But apart from all that, the assertion that the pronunciation peculiar to a particular dialect is “unacceptable” is, frankly, insulting.
 
PickyPicky said:
But apart from all that, the assertion that the pronunciation peculiar to a particular dialect is “unacceptable” is, frankly, insulting.
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Indeed, it has the whiff of stuffy-old Etonian, colonial bias to me.

“That commoner says “m’lud” rather than “my lord”, what a dastardly creature…”

There is no definitively pure and elegant mode of speech, except in the subjective bias of the individual and a range of artificial human methods of categorising different branches of philology.

The latter is important to the study of linguistics, for the sake of making it easier to analyse and break-down, but (and I hate to go nominalistic here) it has no “objective reality”.
 
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Not accusing you of it either, I was just giving my opinion on the tenor of the sentiment behind differentiating “proper” (and thus by definition beautiful, melliflous and sophisticated) ways of speaking from allegedly “improper” (and thus impliedly ugly and ill-bred sounding) ones.

It’s not a distinction that I personally see very much value in.
 
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Nonetheless it does. And not only changes, but varies, from place to place, from group to group, from class to class, from generation to generation. In that lies much of the beauty of language. You may not think William Barnes’ poetry has beauty, since it is written in a Dorset dialect, but I disagree.
 
very U

In reality I’ve become something of the sum of the places I’ve lived.
 
I share the dislike of homogenisation, but it’s really just an antiquarian outlook. Be more sanguine, new pronunciations and new slang words are cropping up all the time.

And anyway it apparently isn’t just homogenisation that concerns you. The unhomogenised “f” for “th” (and no doubt the “ink” for “ing”) of my London dialect is apparently unacceptable to you,

Yes. And what one should try to do is acquire the useful skill to codeswitch between Englishes, one of them a standard. Without losing one’s native dialect if possible (unfortunately mine has largely gone, and I regret it).
 
Kaninchen said:
very U

In reality I’ve become something of the sum of the places I’ve lived
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And I’ve become a sort of Southern-England-grammar-school-TheresaMaysoundalike (male version), which don’t sound pretty.
 
That’s me! Boy, I need a haircut!

As for non-U! oh yes, there are plenty of people who say toilet instead of lavatory and lounge instead of sitting room. Difficult to believe, I know. Idle devils.

🙂
 
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