Vatican Shot Across the Bow for Hard-Line U.S. Catholics

[godisgood77]

Would you rather see a president who opposeses any abortion restrictions? Trump may not be the best, but we came close to much worse! Maybe if more people had voted for a better Republican nominee instead of for Hilary or Bernie, we would not be in this shape. We can’t just blame those who nominated Trump.

I don’t think anyone is just blaming those who nominated Trump… Granted he’s pretty awful, but the country was stuck with bad candidates across the board. Now that we’re stuck with him, we should just make sure to limit the damage… which has been exceedingly difficult for the first 8 months. Fortunately, the Republican Congress is now starting to box him in.

 

[OraLabora]

Would you rather see a president who opposeses any abortion restrictions? Trump may not be the best, but we came close to much worse! Maybe if more people had voted for a better Republican nominee instead of for Hilary or Bernie, we would not be in this shape. We can’t just blame those who nominated Trump.

There’s more…a lot more… to being pro-life than being anti-abortion. While I Agee that abortion is an evil scourge, creating a pro-life culture and evangelisation are at the root of reducing and hopefully ending abortion.

So far I see little that is truly pro-life coming out of the White House, unless I’m missing something.

So far the only “pro-life” gesture I’ve seen from Pres. Trump is the appointment of a conservative Supreme Court justice. Which is no guarantee that Roe vs Wade will be overturned.

The Republicans talk a good talk… but after 8 years of Reagan, and 12 years of Bush father and son, what has really changed with respect to abortion?

Meanwhile there’s a country to run and the currant occupant of the WH seems singularly incompetent at that task. He can’t even organize his inner circle. Working a consensus with Congress seems but a distant dream.

 

[10gr8kids]

There’s more…a lot more… to being pro-life than being anti-abortion. While I Agee that abortion is an evil scourge, creating a pro-life culture and evangelisation are at the root of reducing and hopefully ending abortion.

So far I see little that is truly pro-life coming out of the White House, unless I’m missing something.

So far the only “pro-life” gesture I’ve seen from Pres. Trump is the appointment of a conservative Supreme Court justice. Which is no guarantee that Roe vs Wade will be overturned.

The Republicans talk a good talk… but after 8 years of Reagan, and 12 years of Bush father and son, what has really changed with respect to abortion?

Meanwhile there’s a country to run and the currant occupant of the WH seems singularly incompetent at that task. He can’t even organize his inner circle. Working a consensus with Congress seems but a distant dream.

Thinking it is alright to deliver a baby half of the way out and crushing it’s head before it is delivered isn’t pro-life at all.

 

[OraLabora]

Thinking it is alright to deliver a baby half of the way out and crushing it’s head before it is delivered isn’t pro-life at all.

Where on earth did you get that from my post?

I said there was more to being pro-life than being simply anti-abortion. It does not follow that I am pro-abortion!!!

 

[gus]

Think Church Militant and other similarly minded folks. Steve Bannon is a great example(not sure if he’s practicing or not though).

Church Miltant is Critical of the Catholic Bishops and the Vatican
How is that politics ? Very rarely do they venture off on what most would consider political.
To accuse Church Miltant of being aligned with Evangelicals is laughable

If theyvcriticize your errors you’ve obviously a hater and you can do or say anything to silence your critics
There is old saying " it’s not the lies your opponents tell about you that induces anger but the Truths they tell about you that infuriates you"

 

[10gr8kids]

Where on earth did you get that from my post?

I said there was more to being pro-life than being simply anti-abortion. It does not follow that I am pro-abortion!!!

We are discussing an article that criticizes those who support Trump. Our options were Trump or Hilary. You commented about being more to pro-life than just against abortion. During the last debate, Hilary proudly stated she was all for partial birth abortion. That’s where my comment came from.

How did you get that I was saying you were for abortion?

 

[Borealis]

and what are some of those reasons?

I think the reason most detest him as a leader is because of the lying.

Donald Trump is the most honest political figure in America since Reagan. That’s why the establishment hates him so much; he exposes them as the fraudulent liars they are. The Obamacare repeal kabuki theater is the perfect example of that: When push came to shove, the establishment caved in and betrayed the American people yet again.

As for this article, I’ll simply note this: Conservatives disagree with the Pope politically but stick to Church teachings 95%+ of the time. Liberals love the Pope politically but reject about half of the Church’s teachings. Which group is really betraying the Church?

 

[godisgood77]

Donald Trump is the most honest political figure …

Forgive me, but you must not have been paying attention these last several months. Trump is the most dishonest president we have likely ever seen. He lies constantly, even about little stuff.

 

[godisgood77]

Except that he is as forced by the Church to remove the word Catholic from the name of his show… it was previously call ‘Real Catholic TV’

Please look up what Ab Chaput had to say about Voris and crew. I recommend that all stay away from that pseudo news rag

It Church Militant is orthodox Catholicism, I personally don’t want anything to do with it.

 

[GEddie]

If that is all you have an issue with in my note, then I’m good.

The world’s opinion of Trump is of minor importance. We do live in a globally connect world these days and as the largest consumer in the world, I’m sure you would agree that, the US bears a special responsibility for how we conduct ourselves

Which does not include sacrificing for everybody else on environmental issues.

But we agree, what the world talking heads think of our political leaders is of mostly minor importance.

ICXC NIKA

 

[GEddie]

Forgive me, but you must not have been paying attention these last several months. Trump is the most dishonest president we have likely ever seen. He lies constantly, even about little stuff.

Lying is standard practice in politics. So?

There is a word to describe politicians who try to be honest. “Defeated.”

People vote with their heart, not their mind, and the heart wants to be lied to.

ICXC NIKA

 

[J_Peterson]

Church Miltant is Critical of the Catholic Bishops and the Vatican
How is that politics ? Very rarely do they venture off on what most would consider political.
To accuse Church Miltant of being aligned with Evangelicals is laughable

If theyvcriticize your errors you’ve obviously a hater and you can do or say anything to silence your critics
There is old saying " it’s not the lies your opponents tell about you that induces anger but the Truths they tell about you that infuriates you"

They were mentioned in the article in question so it wasn’t my example.

They are very political.

Senate Confirms Trump’s Third Conservative Federal Appeals Court Judge

Shapiro, Carolla: Students Weakened When Protected From ‘Offensive’ Speech

US Coast Guard Reassures All 13 Transgenders: I Will Not Break Faith

 

[Ridgerunner]

Fair enough… I get your point, although, tree root analogy doesn’t work for me with Trump. I’d go with the man who built his house on sand.

The good news that the majority of people do not support him - in this country and around the world. You’re right that the left is going bananas daily about the many, many controversies surrounding Mr. Trump. What’s different is that many who supported him are voluntarily letting go of the ‘root’. We’re seeing it now with the Republican congress taking steps to box him in… so bi-partisan resistance is happening… That may be the silver lining actually - so bad a president that a divided country united to stop him. Praise God.

All polls but one had Trump losing badly to Clinton, right up to the election. I don’t think anybody really knows how many people support Trump now, any better than they did then.

Repubs who do things like make foreign policy in congress may live to regret their decisions. There is a disconnect between “establishment” Repubs and a sizeable segment of the population. It’s presently more in the forefront than is the “hard left” revolt in the Dem party, but both are nonetheless real.

Establishment Repubs might think the “gentlemens’ club” they have learned to enjoy worth tacitly supporting Dem moves. But the “club” aspect of it is already gone. They just don’t seem to realize it.

 

[Jig_Saw]

All polls but one had Trump losing badly to Clinton, right up to the election. I don’t think anybody really knows how many people support Trump now, any better than they did then.

The polls had Clinton winning by 4 and Clinton won the popular vote by 2. The polls were accurate.

 

[OraLabora]

We are discussing an article that criticizes those who support Trump. Our options were Trump or Hilary. You commented about being more to pro-life than just against abortion. During the last debate, Hilary proudly stated she was all for partial birth abortion. That’s where my comment came from.

How did you get that I was saying you were for abortion?

Well I don’t live in the US, so my choice is neither. However, pope Benedict XVI, when he was still Card. Ratzinger and prefect for the Congregation of the Doctrine of the faith, said it was morally permissible to vote for a pro-abortion candidate for proportionate reasons. What is not morally permissible is to vote for a candidate because (s)he is pro-abortion.

It would thus have been morally permissible to vote for Hillary Clinton if you felt she was the better candidate to lead the country. That would count as remote material cooperation with evil. Voting for her because she is pro-abortion, would be direct moral cooperation with evil and thus gravely sinful.

If you google it, you’ll find his letter to this effect.

 

[Joe_5859]

I thought the Church Militant was all Catholics currently humanly alive?

Or is there an organization having that formal name?

Yes, they are an organization located in the Detroit area. They used to be called “Real Catholic TV”, but then they changed their name as they did not have the permission of the local bishop to use the word “Catholic” in the name of their organization (as Canon Law gives the authority to the local bishop to determine if an organization can call itself “Catholic”).

They have a website and produce lots of videos. Michael Voris (the head guy over there) has ruffled more than a few feathers because of his tendency towards criticism of bishops in the name of “telling it like it is.”

Honestly, I’m surprised that the Spadaro/Figueroa article uses them as a reference point. They aren’t that large of an organization. I always thought their circle of influence was pretty minimal.

 

[OraLabora]

As for this article, I’ll simply note this: Conservatives disagree with the Pope politically but stick to Church teachings 95%+ of the time. Liberals love the Pope politically but reject about half of the Church’s teachings. Which group is really betraying the Church?

Do you have statistics to back this up? I am centrist-to-moderately conservative. I agree with the pope politically most of the time. I agree with the doctrines of the Church even in those areas where I betray my own weakness.

So how about orthodox Catholics simply agree politically with the pope much of the time, agree with the doctrines of the Church even when they fail to live up to them, and avail themselves of the sacraments, especially confession, when they don’t.

It has been my experience that most faithful Catholics are like this. This labelling of Catholics into right or left must cease. It behooves us to equally catechize those Catholics who don’t agree with Church doctrine, as well as those who seek justification for their worship of Mammon.

 

[godisgood77]

Lying is standard practice in politics. So?

Are you suggesting that because many politician lie, that it is acceptable? My father had a saying for this, if everyone was jumping off a bridge, would you do it to? It is a big mistake to take the lowest common denominator approach… especially for the highest office in the land. Having the worst liar at the top is the pretty bad.

There is a word to describe politicians who try to be honest. “Defeated.”

Jeez… that’s depressing and devoid of hope.

People vote with their heart, not their mind, and the heart wants to be lied to.

Not all people make that mistake. Those that vote emotionally should be taught a better, more responsible way.

 

[JimG]

Except that he is as forced by the Church to remove the word Catholic from the name of his show… it was previously call ‘Real Catholic TV’

Please look up what Ab Chaput had to say about Voris and crew. I recommend that all stay away from that pseudo news rag

It Church Militant is orthodox Catholicism, I personally don’t want anything to do with it.

Unlike the National Catholic Reporter, Church Militant removed the name “Catholic” from its title when asked to do so by its bishop. NCR simply ignored the bishop, actually two of them.

It’s strange to think that a fringe organization such as Church Militant inspired an article in a Vatican magazine.

 

[Vic_Taltrees_UK]

The Spadaro-Figueroa article, and the Schmitz one in the Catholic Herald, are pure and very bald mischief making.

This is a fake move to portray them as coat tailing on the Pope’s authority. This is very commonplace and as old as the hills.

CM you can take or leave, they speak for themselves, in their critiques of the Church itself I have tended to find them balanced enough on occasions that I have glanced their way, but no-one else has to. As they are apparently a minority taste by and large, so much as mentioning them is sheer wedge driving.

As for a Europe-America “divide”, well from the subcontinent that gave us the mafia (all three kinds), P2, Red Brigades, Mussolini that would be “rich” if it wasn’t so hollowly ludicrous.

And I have often agreed with Evangelicals in my 62 years. Is that idea supposed to horrify “Catholics” or something?

Moral: ignore Spadaro, ignore First Things, ignore Civilta C. Permanently. They’ve got nothing to say to us. Ever.

Everyone says “oh I’m speaking for the Pope”.

Ptuh!