T
TMC
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This is exactly what the Old Catholics said about Vatican I - that it directly contradicted teachings of earlier councils. They also denied that Vatican I was truly binding, but they did not try to play word games with its teaching authority, they just said its errors prove it was not authoritative.If this is your example than the SSPX at least has ground to stand on. First, the statements of Vatican II were not infallible, as Vatican I was, for they did not define anything, and they appear to contradict the previous Church teaching on this subject. We are not talking “fuller understanding,” but outright contradiction. The definitions of the Councils of Florence and Trent, which were defined and were infallible, as well other teaching on this subject by Popes such as Bl. Pius IX, do not leave for the kind of leeway in doctrine that Vatican II permitted on this subject, and the SSPX certainly has space for concern here. The definitions at Vatican II appear to be an attempt to vindicate Karl Rahner and the “anonymous christian” thesis, but this is untenable.
I don’t agree that the Church has never said that SSPX is not in doctrinal error. Certainly it is, or it would be in full communion. I do agree that recent Popes have tried to avoid a permanent split by reaching out to SSPX - that was the point of my first post on this thread.By extending this accusation to the SSPX, it appears that there is an attempt to paint the SSPX position worse than the Vatican does, since Rome herself has never claimed the SSPX was in doctrinal error, only in danger of schism! These are very different accusations.
The situation is identical. The traditionalists perpuate this myth that Vatican II was somehow deficient, or at least had less authority than the previous Ecumenical Councils. Vatican II was a valid Ecumenical Council with the same authority possessed by any of its predecessors. That the Pope said it was aimed at pastoral concerns speaks to its purpose, not its authority. The council is said to have promulgated no new dogma, that does not mean that the council’s interpretation of existing dogma is any less authoritative than that of any other council.So no, the situation is not the same. A group of bishops reject an infallibly defined dogma and willfuly constitute an act of schism to create a seperate church, versus a priestly fraternity who has concerns regarding certain non-infallible teachings of a council and its aftermath, and in doing do, carried their actions outside the approved norms for those actions, with danger of schism. Sorry, still do not see the similarity.
In any break away group there are differences of opinion, so I’m sure not all did, but the Declaration of Utrecht makes clear that the movement as a whole rejected papal infallibility and that it was the main reason for the split.By the way, not all the Old Catholic bishops felt that the defining of papal infallibilty was a break with the past, only that it should not be defined and binding on Catholic consciences.