Veils at Other People's Weddings

[dixieagle]

It’s actually required there. When you go to an audience with the pope, they’ve got complimentary chapel veils for any women who doesn’t have her head covered. Perhaps it’s a clue to the fact that the practice was never meant to die.

I read an anecdote about a very feminist women who went to have an audience with the pope, and refused the veil. Apparently she thought it was degrading (she seemed to be fully aware of the whole obedience thing). Finally, she managed to arrange it with bobby pins so that it wasn’t touching her head. Amazing how much pride some people have.

Personal anecdote: in 2001, my husband, daughters and I were blessed to have a private audience with Pope John Paul II while in Rome. We think it was arranged by our archbishop. The day before the audience, a nun called to let us know where to go, what to wear, etc. NO mention of veils, head coverings, etc., at all - just modest-length skirts, shoulders covered,etc. Several other families waited with us for the audience, with the women all suitably dressed, but only one woman with a head covering - a woman from Spain who wore a mantilla, as was clearly her custom. No one handed us chapel veils. If someone had, we would have gladly put them on. I have included a photo.

 

[dixieagle]

I was merely trying to give the OP a way to explain it to her family without shoving church teaching in their face, to try to help them understand on a more personal and emotional level than by trying to make it seem as though the OP is somehow better than her family.

edit: Ah, no, I see what you were saying. But even so, my use of that statement was still misunderstood. Besides, the OP asked for opinions and advice from fellow veilers. So perhaps you should keep your somewhat harsh comments to yourself in this case?

I don’t feel my comments are in any way harsh; I have simply stated the position of the Church, which seems quite clear in this matter. It is no longer a matter of Church law.

There is nothing “bad” about covering; however, we must be careful not to characterize something as required when it is clearly not. Personal devotions are wonderful, but they are exactly that.

 

[dixieagle]

Seems to me it was the Code of Canon Law that put Church teaching, and the clear teaching of scripture aside, when it removed the requirement to veil that had been in affect since at least Paul’s time, if not during Old Testament times. Canon Laws are just that, laws, and thus therefore can be prone to error. Either way, it is not DISobedient to veil, as the Canon does not say we CAN not or MUST not veil.

Canon Law can indeed be changed or updated (changeable laws vs. immutable dogmas) but while a particular Code (1983) is in effect we, if we are Catholic, are duty bound to follow and accept and not try to find ways to justify our own preferences. Note well: I do not mean that one must not veil or cover; one must not, however, place one’s personal interpretation of scripture above what Holy Mother Church, in her wisdom, teaches.

To sum up; I do, indeed, hope that the OP and her sister can come to an agreement. However, this is a much different scenario than were her sister requesting that she ignore a Church law.

 

[dixieagle]

Please, please do not turn this thread into a thread about how head coverings are bad.

I came here for help and I find this response pretty upsetting. The reason I put this thread in the traditional catholicism forum was to seek the aid of women involved in the practice. I have also found some of the counterpoints to be very helpful, but they are starting to make me really sad.

My intentions are not to solidfy my place in some obscure obedience hierarchy. Most people who wear veils would probably agree.

It is opinions like this that I firmly believe are what drive Catholics toward movements like SSPX. I’m not about to mess around with that (no offense to those who do.) I’m really just baffled how someone could be so against a practice that no has asked them to do and does them no harm. This is just so discouraging to me.

Let us clarify for the sake of continuing this thread that I am not trying to prove this is a requirement.

Even though I really don’t want to go there on the obedience thing, could praying the rosary daily be considered an act of obedience? I could see how it might be and that is not enforced or required of all Catholics. Most people who do would not try to force it on others. How is this any different?

---

Janechantal53, I am so sorry to hear about your sister. May God bless her and may perpetual light shine upon her.

I find your opinion valuable, but if you don’t mind my asking, do you wear a veil to mass? It is helpful to me in identifying where these opinions are coming from to have this background.

To me covering my head is not merely an outward sign. There is an inner transformation involved in this practice. I don’t do it to look pious as you might be suggesting. This is one of the great troubles with doing this at all is that so many people judge that we are trying to look a certain way or deceive people or something. I usually don’t ask people what they think about it. I usually don’t discuss it except that I found a need to come here for advice on this issue. Some of you have greatly helped me, some have just saddened me. Don’t worry, Janechantal53, your response was helpful I’m not explicitly talking about you. In a way they have all be helpful.

Sweetie, head coverings are NOT “bad”. They are simply, as you indicate yourself, not required. Clearly, you are a devout and exemplary young woman. I am sure that you and your sister can find something for you to wear that makes you both happy.

My issue is with those who put a personal preference or personal interpretation of scripture above Church teachings, insinuating that Canon Law is wrong; definitely not you!

 

[weepixie71]

i think everyone is missing the point. it is not what the veil represents to us or even to the magisterium. it is what it means to her to have her head covered to please Christ. it means enough to her that she is pleading for help on a public internet site.

if her sister, the bride, is not understanding that this is sacred to her and that it is not a way to be upstaged, the bride will have to know that her very own sister’s memory will be tainted and will not be able to fully enjoy her wedding with her. if i were a bride i would want my maid of honor happy for me and fully enjoy being a participant in my wedding.

if they do not come to an understanding on this issue both will lose on the wedding day.

 

[lizaanne]

To me covering my head is not merely an outward sign. There is an inner transformation involved in this practice. I don’t do it to look pious as you might be suggesting. This is one of the great troubles with doing this at all is that so many people judge that we are trying to look a certain way or deceive people or something. I usually don’t ask people what they think about it. I usually don’t discuss it except that I found a need to come here for advice on this issue. Some of you have greatly helped me, some have just saddened me. Don’t worry, Janechantal53, your response was helpful I’m not explicitly talking about you. In a way they have all be helpful.

I completely understand and agree with how you feel about this, for me it is the same. This is not just a hunk of lace I throw on my head to look a certain way. This is an internal, spiritual, and very deeply personal action that I take when in the presence of Christ. I do this out of obedience, reverence, devotion - all things that are internal to me, not on the top of my head.

Don’t let anyone discourage you. It is not easy to be different, but you are not trying to be different, you are just trying to be you, and the you that you are covers her head in the presence of Jesus Christ in the Eucharist.

I also struggled with whether or not to cover my head when I had to read in that wedding, and almost wore a hat. But the thought of NOT being covered in Church was just not an option for me, I could not bring myself to do it. To me, I do not feel properly clothed to be in presence of Jesus.

I hope you and your sister are able to come to some understanding and agreement on this, I will certainly keep you in my prayers.

~Liza

 

[PatienceAndLove]

I completely understand and agree with how you feel about this, for me it is the same. This is not just a **hunk of lace **I throw on my head to look a certain way. This is an internal, spiritual, and very deeply personal action that I take when in the presence of Christ. I do this out of obedience, reverence, devotion - all things that are internal to me, not on the top of my head.

only you Liza

 

[dixieagle]

i think everyone is missing the point. it is not what the veil represents to us or even to the magisterium. it is what it means to her to have her head covered to please Christ. it means enough to her that she is pleading for help on a public internet site.

if her sister, the bride, is not understanding that this is sacred to her and that it is not a way to be upstaged, the bride will have to know that her very own sister’s memory will be tainted and will not be able to fully enjoy her wedding with her. if i were a bride i would want my maid of honor happy for me and fully enjoy being a participant in my wedding.

if they do not come to an understanding on this issue both will lose on the wedding day.

There’s no real reason they cannot come to an understanding, with the choices of “headgear” available.

 

[dixieagle]

I completely understand and agree with how you feel about this, for me it is the same. This is not just a hunk of lace I throw on my head to look a certain way. This is an internal, spiritual, and very deeply personal action that I take when in the presence of Christ. I do this out of obedience, reverence, devotion - all things that are internal to me, not on the top of my head.

Don’t let anyone discourage you. It is not easy to be different, but you are not trying to be different, you are just trying to be you, and the you that you are covers her head in the presence of Jesus Christ in the Eucharist.

I also struggled with whether or not to cover my head when I had to read in that wedding, and almost wore a hat. But the thought of NOT being covered in Church was just not an option for me, I could not bring myself to do it. To me, I do not feel properly clothed to be in presence of Jesus.

I hope you and your sister are able to come to some understanding and agreement on this, I will certainly keep you in my prayers.

~Liza

What would have been wrong with wearing a hat? We all wore hats back “in the day” when we had to, and a couple ladies in our parish wear them routinely now. Wearing a hat would not have equaled “not being covered.”

 

[latinmasslover]

Good evening!

I am new to posting, so hopefully I have put this in the right place.

I wear a veil to mass. I started doing this a little over a year ago. I know it does not sound like long. To me it feels that it is the sort of practice that once you do it, you really can’t go back. (perhaps you can identify or perhaps you disagree)

I have only been to one wedding since I began doing this and I wore a brown veil for that occasion. I did this considering the cultural meanings of black(funerals) or white(brides) veils to the modern public. I also felt that it was the most discrete, as my hair is light brown.

So my first question is what do you ladies who veil do when you are attending weddings in congregations where most women do not wear veils?

My second question is simply to ask for a bit of advice in my recent situation. My sister is getting married this year. The women in my family do not wear veils and I have never really tried to get them to, as it can be a touchy subject. I am the maid of honor in this wedding and my sister does not want me to wear a veil. She has seen what I wear and does understand that it would not be long, flowy and white. What would you do in my situation? I could be mis-interpreting her, but she seems to find what I see as an act of reverence as something upsetting.

I even thought about buying one of those lunch lady hairnets that are virtually invisible and cutting a circular section out of it to set on top of my head. Am I being ridiculous in not just accepting her wishes? Am I being ridiculous with sneaky invisible lunch-lady plans?

Been there, done that (both of them).

I wear mine whenever I’m in the nave or chapel, regardless of whether or not other women wear them.

Wear the veil to the wedding. If you were wearing white, or pink, or whatever…something that made everyone focus on you, *that *would be a problem. Women always wore veils, and now it’s conveniently not enforced. Anyway, she has no right to insist on you not wearing it, especially since it goes with your hair well. My brother didn’t really want me to wear mine at his wedding, but I told him that I was going to and so he dropped the issue.

 

[savienu]

What would have been wrong with wearing a hat? We all wore hats back “in the day” when we had to, and a couple ladies in our parish wear them routinely now. Wearing a hat would not have equaled “not being covered.”

I don’t think you are understanding what she is saying. She was saying she normally veils, but did consider wearing a hat. She then said the thought of NOT being covered wouldn’t be an option. So it was 2 options: veil, or hat.

 

[lizaanne]

What would have been wrong with wearing a hat? We all wore hats back “in the day” when we had to, and a couple ladies in our parish wear them routinely now. Wearing a hat would not have equaled “not being covered.”

Nothing at all!!

I just didn’t feel comfortable wearing a hat this time, and my DH, when I asked him, said that he thought the chapel veil looked better. There would have been nothing wrong with wearing a hat aside from me personally feeling like I was trying to “hide” the fact that I cover my head while in Church. It’s difficult to explain, but I felt that wearing a hat (while totally acceptable and fine) would have been a cop out of me. That’s all.

I actually wear a hat often to Mass in the winter, I have some great velvet hats with a medium brim that I get many compliments about. I was considering wearing a “church lady” style hat for the wedding but decided not to.



~Liza

 

[lizaanne]

only you Liza

~Liza

 

[dixieagle]

Nothing at all!!

I just didn’t feel comfortable wearing a hat this time, and my DH, when I asked him, said that he thought the chapel veil looked better. There would have been nothing wrong with wearing a hat aside from me personally feeling like I was trying to “hide” the fact that I cover my head while in Church. It’s difficult to explain, but I felt that wearing a hat (while totally acceptable and fine) would have been a cop out of me. That’s all.

I actually wear a hat often to Mass in the winter, I have some great velvet hats with a medium brim that I get many compliments about. I was considering wearing a “church lady” style hat for the wedding but decided not to.



~Liza

OK, I see (though I admit the preference for a veil over a hat leaves me mystified…)

I actually have to purchase a fancy spring hat for a bridal tea and plan to have fun with it, as it has been years since I’ve worn one, aside from the occasional knit hat or ball cap while out walking. Used to love them, though.

 

[lizaanne]

OK, I see (though I admit the preference for a veil over a hat leaves me mystified…)

I actually have to purchase a fancy spring hat for a bridal tea and plan to have fun with it, as it has been years since I’ve worn one, aside from the occasional knit hat or ball cap while out walking. Used to love them, though.

You know - it does mystify me as well, so don’t feel left out.

I LOVE hats!! I think that sounds like a wonderful time, a wedding tea with ladies in hats!! How fun!!

~Liza

 

[dixieagle]

You know - it does mystify me as well, so don’t feel left out.

I LOVE hats!! I think that sounds like a wonderful time, a wedding tea with ladies in hats!! How fun!!

~Liza

We are way down in the deepest south, and there is always quite a variety of spring hats on display, worn mainly by the debutantes in the Mardi Gras courts, or elegant African American “church ladies.”

The theme of the wedding tea is azaleas; with this being the Azalea City and the bride and several bridesmaids having been Azalea Trail Maids (the current group sashayed briskly in the Inaugural Parade yesterday) we thought that pastel hats would be a nice touch.

But I digress…

I fervently hope that both the OP, who sounds like a wonderful and devout young lady, and her sister, a likely harried and emotional bride, can take a deep breath and solve this. Just no “lunch lady” hairnet, PLEASE!!!

 

[Janechantal53]

Chiltepin,

Thank you for your prayer for my sister.

And yes, when I was young, I did cover my head, ( as did everyone else.) I stopped when the laws in the Church changed. (And they did change.)

I have one other thought that you might want to consider… It would be an act of sacrifice for you to give up the head covering for love of your sister. ?

I can’t encourage you enough to relax and enjoy the moment with her!

 

[Chiltepin]

I fervently hope that both the OP, who sounds like a wonderful and devout young lady, and her sister, a likely harried and emotional bride, can take a deep breath and solve this. Just no “lunch lady” hairnet, PLEASE!!!

Thank you. I think we should be able to come to some understanding, I am just afraid to attempt this conversation with her again. All of the help I have gotten from all sides on ideas, arguments and alternatives should be quite helpful.

I still don’t think the hairnet would look as bad as you may be imagining. I might have to do it anyway (not for the wedding.) It would be cheap and i’m growing geniunely curious about how successful or tacky that would have been.

 

[Chiltepin]

I have one other thought that you might want to consider… It would be an act of sacrifice for you to give up the head covering for love of your sister. ?

I can’t encourage you enough to relax and enjoy the moment with her!

Sorry for double posting, I really need to learn how to quote more than one person in a post.

That is an interesting way to look at it. I really wish it convinced me because it sounds very beautiful. I am not opposed to making sacrifices for love of my sister.

I hope this doesn’t come out sounding inflammatory, but I have a talent for that sometimes. Christ died for my sins; my sister did not. (Not a statement I would use in the conversation with her, naturally) I am not comfortable sacrificing something I do for Him as a sacrifice to her.

I really like the nature of your argument, it just has not convinced me to give up the practice for the wedding. It is not as though what I am doing is unprecedented (Again not saying you all have to, just that this practice did not come out of nowhere). It was once very normal to do this. It is not like I have taken to tap dancing during the Eucharistic prayer, wearing an exaggerated top hat, or playing the kazoo out of devotion to Christ. Those things have no precedent in the history of the Mass… that I know of.

 

[lizaanne]

Sorry for double posting, I really need to learn how to quote more than one person in a post.

Use the little button to the right of the ‘quote’ button, it has a little + on it. Then click reply when you are ready to reply.

Christ died for my sins; my sister did not. (Not a statement I would use in the conversation with her, naturally) I am not comfortable sacrificing something I do for Him as a sacrifice to her.

I really like the nature of your argument, it just has not convinced me to give up the practice for the wedding. It is not as though what I am doing is unprecedented (Again not saying you all have to, just that this practice did not come out of nowhere). It was once very normal to do this. It is not like I have taken to tap dancing during the Eucharistic prayer, wearing an exaggerated top hat, or playing the kazoo out of devotion to Christ. Those things have no precedent in the history of the Mass… that I know of.

I think this makes perfect sense - to me anyway.

Just a side comment - I don’t think you need to keep apologizing for covering your head. There is NO ONE you need to apologize to for this devotion. It is between you and God ---- but you already knew that.

~Liza