Veils

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MrS:
Very blunt…but that is what we need sometimes. It sounds like you read the discussion between Colin Donovan of EWTN and Robert Sungenis of CAI.
Pray for bishops with discipline to step forward and stop the laity from creating their own norms.
Our parish has gone from none to about a dozen who now have returned to wearing lace veils - some small some down past the neck line.

MrS
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Nope I have heard of both these men but I think I haven’t seen the discussion.
 
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Meggie:
guys can’t wear head coverings in church, how in the world did it become respectful for women to wear a handkie on their head
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Please read 1 Corinthians 11:1-16 for your answer.
 
N.B. I thought it was closed also. My “hat” is tipped to any lady who has the courage to be her own person. Anyone “thinking” that those who wear anything on their head “think” they are holier than anyone else is making a “rash” judgment. Rash judging is a matter for Confession, she said, smiling!!!
Mary, Cause of our joy, pray for us.
Peace on earth to men of good will.
LaVada
 
This practice of women wearing a veil comes from the Bible.

1 Corinthians 11:2-16

2 I commend you because you remember me in everything and maintain the traditions even as I have delivered them to you. 3 But I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, the head of a woman is her husband, and the head of Christ is God. 4 Any man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head, 5 but any woman who prays or prophesies with her head unveiled dishonors her head–it is the same as if her head were shaven. 6 For if a woman will not veil herself, then she should cut off her hair; but if it is disgraceful for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her wear a veil. 7 For a man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man. 8 (For man was not made from woman, but woman from man. 9 Neither was man created for woman, but woman for man.) 10 That is why a woman ought to have a veil on her head, because of the angels. 11 (Nevertheless, in the Lord woman is not independent of man nor man of woman; 12 for as woman was made from man, so man is now born of woman. And all things are from God.) 13 Judge for yourselves; is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered? 14 Does not nature itself teach you that for a man to wear long hair is degrading to him, 15 but if a woman has long hair, it is her pride? For her hair is given to her for a covering. 16 If any one is disposed to be contentious, we recognize no other practice, nor do the churches of God.
 
14 Does not nature itself teach you that for a man to wear long hair is degrading to him
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So do we assume all those images of Jesus wtih long hair are inaccurate or that he wore long hair to be self-degrading?

Anyway my Douay version of the Bible does not say this.

It says, “Doth not even nature itself teach you that a man indeed, if he nourish his hair, it is a shame unto him?”
 
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Meggie:
guys can’t wear head coverings in church, how in the world did it become respectful for women to wear a handkie on their head
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We wore “hankies” as you so proverbially call it (I hope that your tone of disrespect that I hear is not your intent) was because back then, it was our hair that was supposed to distract men from focusing on what was going on at the Pascal Sacrifice (the Mass).

Now, I’d be happy if we all weren’t distracted by what is NOT being covered other than the hair on our heads.

Sure… I’d love to wear a mantilla again. For me, THAT is the sign of utmost respect to my Lord in the Real Presence of the Eucharist — not what any other person would consider to be my sign of respect for our Lord by what THEY think is “my” best clothes.

God knows what I look like without clothes, so I shudder to think that I’d be trying to impress him with my reverence for what exactly I’m wearing (of course, I must be clean and modest as usual).

Even more, He always knows my heart even more than I do.

As long as I’m covered and clean, I could care less what other people think for whether or not I’m respecting God at Mass. That’s just THEM judging ME. :tsktsk:

I just wouldn’t want to be distracting to others if I am the only one wearing a mantilla… or just a few of us were.

Can’t wait for that practice of wearing a lace mantilla to catch on again!! It truly does something wonderful for bringing me to a more humble state of mind. 👍

The Lord knows that **I ** sure need to become more humble!

Please pray for me around that humble thing. Thanks!!

:angel1:
 
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deogratias:
one bobby pin does it
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Um, if you have very fine, thin, lightweight hair like mine, one bobby pin won’t do it. The bobby pin slips staight out, every time.

Sometimes I would wear a scarf that had been folded in half, triangle-wise, and tie two of the three ends of that triangle under my chin.

Like Mom.

I still have those scarves… and Mom’s now that Mom died.
 
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deogratias:
So do we assume all those images of Jesus wtih long hair are inaccurate or that he wore long hair to be self-degrading?

Anyway my Douay version of the Bible does not say this.

It says, “Doth not even nature itself teach you that a man indeed, if he nourish his hair, it is a shame unto him?”
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1 Corinthians 11:2-16 is here:

nccbuscc.org/nab/bible/1corinthians/1corinthians11.htm

Let’s focus on 1 Corinthians 11:13-16

13
8 Judge for yourselves: is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head unveiled?
14
Does not nature itself teach you that if a man wears his hair long it is a disgrace to him,
15
whereas if a woman has long hair it is her glory, because long hair has been given (her) for a covering?
16
But if anyone is inclined to be argumentative, we do not have such a custom, nor do the churches of God.

That footnote #8 (above) is this:).

8 [13-16] The argument for conformity to common church practice is summed up and pressed home. 1 Cor 11:14-15 contain a final appeal to the sense of propriety that contemporary Greek society would consider “natural” (cf 1 Cor 11:5-6).

Source: New American Bible
United States Conference of Catholic Bishops
3211 4th Street, N.E., Washington, DC 20017-1194 (202) 541-3000
December 09, 2002 Copyright © by United States Conference of Catholic Bishops June 03, 2003 Copyright © by United States Conference of Catholic Bishops
 
My wife and two daughters wear their mantillas every Sunday and get many a compliment which leads to wonder why those making the compliments don’t adopt the practice themselves. The look helps to set the proper tone for the whole family.
 
To rely only on the Bible alone, isn’t that sola scripture? If the church has no law about head coverings, then it is only a recommendation. I wear a veil to Mass by the way, but it is not required or mandatory. I agree that it is a sign of love for God to do so.
 
I grew up having to wear a mantilla and I hated them so much, in fact, that I left the Church when I moved away for college. Then I discovered a parish where mantillas and veils were not required and I reverted back to Catholicism.

I have very short, very thin hair and head coverings just don’t work. I can’t stand hats, always fidget with them, and tying a scarf under my chin makes me feel like I’ve got a wrap for a toothache. I say a prayer daily that my hair will grow but so far, it hasn’t happened. What I wouldn’t give to have long, beautiful hair like the women in the pictures in my bible.
 
Aaaiiieee!! Sorry, I just woke up from a nightmare about being in fourth grade again.

When I was young, we moved from a “progressive” parish where no one wore veils and few ladies wore hats, to a “conservative” parish where they were required for school masses. All the other girls knew this and had lacey little veils, but I had to suffer the humiliation of wearing a Kleenex on my head on my first day of school!

I guess they figured I was old enough to know, and never realized that in other parishes this might not have been taught, so no one told me that I should bring in my own veil (not that I had one, but I’m sure my mother would have known what to do) for next week. For my part, I thought maybe it was some local custom for the first week of school. So next week – surprise! I got to wear the humiliating Kleenex again. I felt as if every person in church was glaring scornfully at me. The two girls beside me certainly were.

By the third week, perhaps, I should have known, but I was still trying to get used to my new school, learn my classmates’ names, remember where the bathrooms were, and make my cursive letters the way they did here instead of the way I’d been taught. I forgot all about the doily thing until it was too late. For the third week in a row, I had to wear that wretched Kleenex. By this time, the other girls knew I was incorrigible (and definitely going to Hell unless I said a whole lot of Rosaries), so they all tried to show Sister how good they were by not playing with me.

It was the start of a very miserable year.

In spite of all that, I rather like prayer veils. I even made one for my daughter to wear in Rome. But I don’t think I’ll be the first to start wearing one in my parish.

Deborah
 
i think veils are beautiful, respectful, and help us guys to keep our minds on the mass. 🙂
 
I often find myself in a surgical bonnet at Mass. Does that count.

😉 Seriously. I do.
 
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asquared:
I am not against veils, or for them. What I am against is posing a question in a form that is ambiguous and out of context, and then when someone asks for clarification, resorting to the usual uncharitable “I’m a holier Catholic than you are” retorts that posters in this forum usually descend to in their temper tantrums.

There was never a requirement to wear veils. There used to be a discipline that women covered their heads in church, and men removed their hats. Down here in Tex we often have a problem with the latter as well. Remember those little clips on the pews that men used to hang up their hats?
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I think you might misunderstand. Nobody’s asking for it to be “required,” just if they would like to see it come back. Personally, I started feeling called to cover my head a few years ago, after our church started Perpetual Adoration. However, we went to a very orthodox Mass celebrating Our Lady of Czestohova, and I was the only one their who covered my head. It’s not for everyone, and it doesn’t make anyone “holier than thou.” Hats look ridiculous on me, so the veil/mantilla look is for me. 😃
 
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agname:
What concerns me are the teenie boppers who are wearing mini-skirts…and a thong…to Mass. It’s a shame. I’m not an “old fogie” (as one individual implied awhile back…until I told them my age)…I’m 26…it’s hard to concentrate in such a setting.
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You would think that since they don’t wear veils maybe they could use the excess material to cover their midriffs??
 
Hi,
I am new here and have no idea what I am doing, so I guess I will just jump in here since this thread is interesting to me. I do wear a veil to Mass and will quite often wear a headcovering at other times as well. I was just wondering, though, there seem to be a few women who say they would like to see the custom brought back. They stated that they would if it did come back, but won’t now. How is it supposed to come back if no one starts wearing one?

Ruth.
 
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