Vice Presidential Debate

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Per Biden’s Catholicism, I don’t even think he is being consistent in his faith,

Remember, between Biden and Obama, Biden came out first, if only by days, in favor of Same-Sex Marriage, Biden on this question said something like “If 2 people love each other…” but with abortion, he is personally opposed to it but doesn’t want to impose his view on others. So, these are 2 issues, both nonnegotiables yet, Biden has a bit of a contradictory position per his own faith.
 
I never new there was such a thing. Isn’t this like having a side kick stand off.
Not voting this year anyway.
 
bellasbane said:
Classless behavior is Paul Ryan telling a story about kids paralyzed in a car crash to a man who lost his wife and daughter in one.
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You are out of line here. My father was murdered and my mother beaten, strangled and left for dead in their home.

I have no problem people discussing murder, rape, etc. In fact, telling stories of hope and help are uplifting for me.

Paul Ryan’s father died at an early age due to heart attack. Would talking about saving heart attack victims be classless?

You are grasping at straws, looking for fault where there is none.
 
Tampa_Dave said:
Congrats to your Cardinals. The Nats blew a huge lead. The Cards were persistent. Now, go beat the Giants.
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Thanks. Everybody I know, including myself, only watched through the 6th inning, then turned it off, not being able to bear it. I woke up at 3:00 AM and checked my computer. It was like game 6 of last year’s World Series. And we did it without Pujols this year. :yup:

I moonlight for the fireworks company that does the fireworks for the Cards. Everytime the Cards win, it’s ka-ching! Worlds Series is super ka-ching. Even the owner of this fireworks company turned it off. 😛
 
ishii said:
Facts? You mean like: “we were told that the attack in Bengazi was the result of the movie” ?? Oh, that was Biden’s “mularky”

Ishii
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Have you ever been in a real intel situation? Things often start out quite murky, and then more info comes in. The Romney camp was incompetent, anti-American, and inappropriate in their criticism of that reality that it can take a few days to figure out an event like that. If they can’t even figure out that, we can safely predict their incompetence in office.
 
epan said:
The Romney camp was incompetent, anti-American, and inappropriate in their criticism of that reality that it can take a few days to figure out an event like that.
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The Administration, nay the President himself, was rather explicit about the cause and effect analysis that drew this criticism not only from the “Romney Camp”, but from many other reputable and knowledgeable individuals and organizations.

One could take the same set of facts and reasonably conclude that the Administration demonstrated “incompetence” by proclaiming any causal relationship so early and so definitively.

Ignore the date of the incident? Ignore the timing in election season? A U.S. Ambassador was killed. This is no laughing matter, event absent a near perpetual terrorist threat.
 
epan said:
Have you ever been in a real intel situation? Things often start out quite murky, and then more info comes in. The Romney camp was incompetent, anti-American, and inappropriate in their criticism of that reality that it can take a few days to figure out an event like that. If they can’t even figure out that, we can safely predict their incompetence in office.
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I am not sure what you mean by an “intel situation”, but I have been involved, many times during my career, in operations that involved incidents occurring when intelligence was gathered to determine the ground truth of a situation. (starting with the RAF, Red Brigades, etc., during the early/mid 80s…and moving forward from that time)

The way that it should be done is for the PAOs, and particularly the leaders, to keep their blasted mouths shut until they have ground truth. If ANYTHING has to be said, express condolences for the victims, express outrage at the incident itself, and assure the public that we will spare no resources in investigating the causes.

Period.

Well, that doesn’t seem to be how this administration likes handling anything. They seem to have a trend of going with the version that fits their pre-conceptions and then, if that version proves to be false, backing off of it. Sadly, about 45% of the public and 75% of the media are just fine with that flawed approach.
 
markomalley said:
I am not sure what you mean by an “intel situation”, but I have been involved, many times during my career, in operations that involved incidents occurring when intelligence was gathered to determine the ground truth of a situation. (starting with the RAF, Red Brigades, etc., during the early/mid 80s…and moving forward from that time)

The way that it should be done is for the PAOs, and particularly the leaders, to keep their blasted mouths shut until they have ground truth. If ANYTHING has to be said, express condolences for the victims, express outrage at the incident itself, and assure the public that we will spare no resources in investigating the causes.

Period.

Well, that doesn’t seem to be how this administration likes handling anything. They seem to have a trend of going with the version that fits their pre-conceptions and then, if that version proves to be false, backing off of it. Sadly, about 45% of the public and 75% of the media are just fine with that flawed approach.
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This thread is about emotion and has nothing to do with facts. Count me out.

Where is FDR’s current incarnation when we need him? You Hoover fans just can’t measure up.

We are in a real bind here. Romney will make everything much much much much much much much muchmuch much much muchmuch much much muchmuch much much muchmuch much much muchmuch much much muchmuch much much muchmuch much much muchmuch much much muchmuch much much muchmuch much much muchmuch much much muchmuch much much muchmuch much much muchmuch much much muchmuch much much muchmuch much much muchmuch much much muchmuch much much much

worse.

history has proved this, based on his stated principles.

yet, the impossible alternative is obama.

so we need to choose the least evil, which is apparently the incompetency of obama.
 
epan said:
This thread is about emotion and has nothing to do with facts. Count me out.

Where is FDR’s current incarnation when we need him? You Hoover fans just can’t measure up.

We are in a real bind here. Romney will make everything much much much much much much much muchmuch much much muchmuch much much muchmuch much much muchmuch much much muchmuch much much muchmuch much much muchmuch much much muchmuch much much muchmuch much much muchmuch much much muchmuch much much muchmuch much much muchmuch much much muchmuch much much muchmuch much much muchmuch much much muchmuch much much muchmuch much much much

worse.

history has proved this, based on his stated principles.

yet, the impossible alternative is obama.

so we need to choose the least evil, which is apparently the incompetency of obama.
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😛 Nah Nah Nah… how childish.

Good thing Romney said something, the administration shamed us but reading from your posts, you probably think Infanticide is a plus in a candidate and so vote for Obama.

Your probably one of those people that ignore the Democrat votes for military action into Afghanistan and Iraq.

And by all good reason, with competent actions, Ambassador Stephens and 3 other Americans would be alive alive alive today
 
epan said:
Have you ever been in a real intel situation? Things often start out quite murky, and then more info comes in. The Romney camp was incompetent, anti-American, and inappropriate in their criticism of that reality that it can take a few days to figure out an event like that. If they can’t even figure out that, we can safely predict their incompetence in office.
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This is absolutely laughable. The lack of security was quite inexcusable. However if the Obama administration or I guess as they now blame, the State Department, had apologized and made the case for the lowered security, said their mea culpas, immediately launched a MILITARY investigation, and as said previously kept their mouths shut, the American people would have at least been told the truth. Most of us are not military or diplomatic experts. We could understand a mistake although if you look at the situation…Libya, AlQaeda, multiple attacks, other diplomats pulling out, death threats against Ambassador Stevens and the little factoid it was 9/11…it would be a hard sell.

But like many other similar situations, it’s the cover up, the intentional lying to the American people, the theory that they could push this off until after the election that has many wondering what else they lied about.

They were blathering about the video days if not weeks after the incident even though the Libyan government said it was a terrorist attack. Many questioned this conclusion but they soldiered on, convinced if they repeat a lie enough times it will magically turn into the truth.

As to Romney’s statement, many are trying to conflate this with the Libyan attacks. His statement was inspired by the apology from the EGYPTIAN Embassy for the YouTube video. He said our first reaction should NOT be to apologize. Although the Libyan situation was mentioned it was early and before the Ambassador’s death was known. Further the Obama Administration itself PULLED the apology shortly after Romney’s statement. So they were actually in agreement, it’s just that Romney stole Obama’s thunder so to speak and you can’t have that right?

With 20/20 hindsight maybe Romney shouldn’t have spoken out on the issue of Egypt. But we didn’t know about Libya which was by far the more serious incident. Don’t conflate the two to try to make Romney look bad. It won’t work epan. We’re far smarter than you might think:D

Lisa
 
epan said:
Have you ever been in a real intel situation? Things often start out quite murky, and then more info comes in. The Romney camp was incompetent, anti-American, and inappropriate in their criticism of that reality that it can take a few days to figure out an event like that. If they can’t even figure out that, we can safely predict their incompetence in office.
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Have I ever been in an intel situation? Well, yes - back when I was #2 man in the state dept. during the Reagan administration. Actually, no I haven’t - have you?

As LisaA said, with regard to Romney, you are conflating his comments on Egypt with Libya. The Obama administration continued to push the narrative of “the attack on the US embassy in Libya was a result of a spontaneous reaction to an anti-Islam video” long after the “intel” showed that it was an organized terrorist attack. This is a brewing scandal for Obama. I would like to know “what did he know and when did he know it.” The embassy apparently was concerned about the lack of security - but those concerns fell on deaf ears. Americans died, epan. And incompetence is leaving an embassy vulnerable to attack - resulting in deaths of Americans. Nice try though, epan.

Ishii
 
epan said:
Have you ever been in a real intel situation? Things often start out quite murky, and then more info comes in. The Romney camp was incompetent, anti-American, and inappropriate in their criticism of that reality that it can take a few days to figure out an event like that. If they can’t even figure out that, we can safely predict their incompetence in office.
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Nonsense. they knew from the start there were no protests in Libya yet they held to that lie for weeks-even having the Ambassador to the UN go on TV and lie. Romeny analyzed the situation correctly, chastised the Egyptian MBAs for their appease and apologize reaction to being attacked -Romneys position was affirmed by the Obama admin later.
 
LisaA said:
This is absolutely laughable. The lack of security was quite inexcusable.

Lisa
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The Embassy in Barbados has a full contingent of Marines protecting it on 9-11. The Biden excuse that congress caused the lack of security by cutting funds is ludicrous.
 
epan said:
Hilarious poll results. Ryan got served his lunch. Caught and exposed in lie after lie. Cool to see an old catholic spank a younger one on national TV. If you don’t agree, just listen to the conservative crybaby response.

When Obama failed in the debate, demos admitted it. Republicans don’t quite have the integrity to admit Ryan’s failure. Sore losers.
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CNN debate results:

i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2012/images/10/11/top13.pdf
  1. Regardless of which candidate you happen to support, who do you think did the best job in the
    debate – Joe Biden or Paul Ryan?
    Oct. 11
    2012
    Biden 44%
    Ryan 48%
 
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