Vietnamese Baptist Church Burned in Philadelphia During Black Lives Matter Riots

[Billy76]

Thank you for spreading the positivity! As the person who started the thread I should have focused on that rather than debating someone who is clearly just trying to argue for argument’s sake. I will also make a donation. Thank you for pointing that out!

 

[Billy76]

I know he makes extraordinary claims that is why I am not against taking things with skepticism. But he was well ahead of the Epstein scandal and reported on it and also exposed Bohemian Grove which you would think is not true and insane but actually is true. This story just caught my eye because I see a correlation between what is going on now and how it could affect our faith and our brothers and sisters in Christ. I just assumed people would take their skepticism into their own hands and if it wasn’t true, reveal the true story. Instead my character was attacked for no reason.

 

[ThinkingSapien]

I don’t think that is being cynical. That happens every election season.

Unfortunately, our election process is a bit drawn out. Even after the November 3rd voting day, we will have to wait for the votes to be counted, hear about court cases to have some votes removed because of missing a deadline or using an improper mark, and then sometime afterwards the real voting begins with the electoral college.

 

[JonNC]

I didn’t say that, did I?

I’m sorry. Let me ask anew.

Do you agree with me that the cause of the corruption we are talking about, which includes politicians from both parties, is too much power held in Washington, and that the cure is a return to constitutional limits on federal power?

 

[JonNC]

No, I think the problem is that we haven’t really prosecuted white collar crime for the last 30 years and there are people who think they can break the law because the law isn’t enforced.

So, it sounds like you believe all politicians are criminals. Obama, Biden, Pelosi are white collar criminals.
I can’t prove that and neither can you. What we do know is that power corrupts. The greater the power the greater the corruption.
When one supports large powerful government, they clearly must accept as okay corruption.

 

[JonNC]

I didn’t say that, did I?

We are talking about politicians enriching themselves while in office. You said:
“ No, I think the problem is that we haven’t really prosecuted white collar crime for the last 30 years and there are people who think they can break the law because the law isn’t enforced.”
So, yes you did.

Not necessarily. If we allow investigation and criminal prosecution, then the risk and reward tradeoff would be for people to stay honest or end up in jail.

I’m all in favor of prosecution of criminals. We are talking about politicians enriching themselves while in office. Is that white collar crime, or just corruption? Most of the time it is just corruption, but in either case, lack of prosecution of politicians is because they have so much power!. It’s because of corruption.
Power corrupts. The greater the power the greater the corruption. Your complaint about lack of prosecution is a complaint about corruption.

Not what I said at all.

I didn’t say you, did I? I said: “ When one supports large powerful government, they clearly must accept as okay corruption.”
Unless your name is “One”, I didn’t say you.

The two go hand in hand: government power and corruption. They are inseparable.
If one supports strong central government, one must accept and consider acceptable large levels of corruption.

 

[JonNC]

Well, actually we were talking about

Actually, we were talking about the emoluments clause and Trump, and others getting rich while holding power.

so, I guess you forgot your own question that I answered.

Except you didn’t answer it.

Interestingly, I have noticed a lack of criminal prosecution of all white collar crime, so it isn’t only politicians.

But we were talking about politicians like Trump, Obama and Biden.

Furthermore, I have noticed a segment of the population is more than willing to look the other way when it involves their party.

Do you mean like your ongoing attempts to not respond to my questions about Obama, Biden and Pelosi?

So, to the extent that corruption exists, I think the cure is prosecution of criminal behavior and it has little to do with “constitutional limits on federal power”

It has everything to do with it, as I explained earlier. Prosecution of the powerful is difficult because they have power. The more power they have, the more difficult it is to go after them.

 

[JonNC]

and then you claimed this meant a bunch of things that I didn’t say,

There is no way around it. Powerful government and corruption go hand in hand.
Nowhere did you join me in condemning Obama, Biden and Pelosi for their getting very wealthy while in power.

 

[JonNC]

Oh, golly, I must agree with your premise or else I think corruption is okay. That’s some faulty logic there, Jon.

If one lacks power, there is no reason for others to seek favors.
This isn’t the only reason to oppose strong central government, but it is an obvious one.
Still not willing to condemn Obama, Biden and Pelosi for their corruption.

 

[JonNC]

Where did you learn this particular discussion style of demanding people say what you want them to say or else they support what they say they don’t support?

Where did you learn to dodge issues do well?

 

[JonNC]

Oh, I prefer to think of it as keeping it on topic instead of trying to counter a Gish Gallop.

A Gish gallop? Really?
The topic was quite narrow: corruption of federal politicians. A topic you started. You may wish to limit the discussion to Trump. I don’t. And I’m not willing to look at corruption as something lacking an underlying cause. That cause is power.

 

[JonNC]

Yep and you said that you think that limiting the federal government power is the cause and I disagreed

That’s fine, but with strong central government comes corruption. Power corrupts snd absolute power corrupts absolutely. The greater the power the greater the corruption. This can only be denied if one denies human nature.

demanding that I condemn Obama for some sort of crimes, don’t know…don’t care.

Demanding? I’m in no position to demand anything of you. I don’t know you. I’ve seen recently mobs in the streets demanding with the implied threat of violence that people support BLM. I wouldn’t do that and it’s wrong that they are.
Additionally, I never said anything about Obama committing crimes. You started this conversation with an accusation that Trump is profiting on his presidency. As I recall, you asked (demanded?) if I had a major issue with that. I said to the extent that he has, yes. I then went on to point out the Obama, Biden, and Pelosi (among many others) have all enriched themselves while in office. This is undeniable.
That’s corruption, but not necessarily crimes.
I’ve asked you if you condemn their corruption like you did Trump’s.
You say “don’t know…don’t care”.

I think I have my answer.

 

[JonNC]

Or one disagrees with you on human nature or one feels that the legal system can properly take care of this.

How does the legal system take care of things that aren’t necessarily illegal?

Like I said, not having a conversation with a person, but just sort of dictating a point of view.

You go right ahead and dictate yours. Isn’t that the nature of a discussion on policy and governance?

The ‘don’t know, don’t care’ was really directed towards you and your demands, not anything to do with Obama. So, to be clear.

That’s fine. It won’t stop me from expressing my views. I’m not Jack Dorsey, so I won’t stop you from expressing yours.

I don’t care enough anymore since you aren’t interested in a conversation, but just want to make assumptions about what I mean.

Then state them. Or don’t. It’s a simple question about Obama, Biden snd Pelosi.