Visits to Hell and my thoughts about it

[Techno2000]

Techno2000:

"'In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams.
Acts 2:17

And afterward, I will pour out My Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your old men will dream dreams, your young men will see visions.
Joel 2:28

In context, these passages were prophesizing & “partially” fulfilled at Pentecost & during the time of the Acts of the Apostles. And it doesn’t say anything about visiting Heaven & Hell. The remainder of this prophecy from Joel is yet-future.

Personal interpretation destroys the word of God.The Catholic Church has determined that some of these visions are true, especially the ones from Fatima.

 

[White_Tree]

I have several friends who are very experienced mystics, who have had spiritual experiences in heaven and hell, as well as receiving dreams and visions of physical events that later occurred in the future, with remarkable accuracy. And over the years, they’ve taught me a number of things about the nature of these experiences, and spiritual revelations in general, that are important to keep in mind when studying the experiences of other people, as well as our own. (This advice also applies to studying books of the Bible that recount the spiritual visions of those authors.)

First and foremost, the nature of the vision or experience is conditioned by the mind of the person who received it. This is not as much of a concern when studying the revelations recorded in the Bible, since the people who had those experiences were very holy. But for most of us, our minds are full of gunk. And if our mind is polluted, the revelation will be similarly polluted. That doesn’t mean it’s completely false, but it does mean that any truth it contains will also be mixed with garbage, to the degree that the mind of the receiver is full of garbage.

That is why it is critical for people who are serious about being mystics to work first and foremost on their own personal holiness and the purity of their own minds. Even small flaws or mental impurities, that would not be a concern for an ordinary person (or might even be considered “normal” by societal standards) can be a huge stumbling block for a mystic.

So keep that in mind when reading about other people’s visions.

Secondly, and this point is just as important, the revelations are often symbolic. This point applies to revelations in the Bible, received by very holy people, as well as to those received by those of us who are more flawed.

This second point should be clear just from studying the dreams and visions present in the Bible. Consider the Book of Daniel, for instance, in which Daniel, who is experienced in receiving revelations from God, helps Nebuchadnezzar to interpret the revelations he has received, and the interpretation is symbolic. Or Joseph, in the book of Genesis, who similarly provides symbolic explanations to the Pharaoh.

So even when the text doesn’t explicitly say, “this is symbolic,” if you’re dealing with a dream, vision, or revelation, it almost always is.

Does anyone really believe that the paradise the cherub is being cast out of in Ezekiel 28:16 is a literal mountain filled with literal burning stones? No, of course not, that would be dumb. And if you do believe that it’s a literal flaming mountain, the question becomes why are you practicing that religion? There are plenty of other gods who promise much better things to their followers than the right to reside on a burning mountain. Maybe it’s time to reevaluate your loyalties.

So maybe that person really did see JPII in hell, or maybe their vision of JPII was indicative of a pollution or bias in their own mind, or maybe JPII was a symbolic representation of a spiritual archetype.

So don’t jump to conclusions.

 

[RaisedCatholic]

Personal interpretation destroys the word of God.The Catholic Church has determined that some of these visions are true, especially the ones from Fatima.

Anyone can accuse anyone else of “personal interpretation.” It is subjective & doesn’t advance the conversation forward. And if there are discrepancies between these “experiences” & the Word of God, and if credence is given towards these “personal experiences” then it takes precedence OVER God’s Word. Plus, comparing these experiences TO Scripture isn’t “personal interpretation,” because personal interpretation isn’t involved in comparing experiences to Scripture. If they are different, then the experience is false. If they are the same, the experience is not needed to validate Heaven & Hell, and it doesn’t actually “prove” the experience really happened, nor can it really be verified.

 

[Inbonum]

Maybe you didn’t know but visions don’t always come from God. Would God give you vision to see st.John Paul II. in Hell?? I don’t think so. God doesn’t conradict Himself.

And you cannot compare mystical experiences from saints with experiences of strangers on net or your friends in same way. I doubt anyone who loudly proclaims he is mystic. It is God’s gift, not your ability.
None of saints became mystic because it was their main goal in life.
After all mysticism in general isn’t only catholic thing and can be found in other religions.
I would be careful, very careful with private revelations of people who weren’t recognised from Church as saint/venerable/blessed and even then it’s not for everyone. People can wrongly interpret many things.

 

[RolandThompsonGunner]

.The Catholic Church has determined that some of these visions are true, especially the ones from Fatima.

I believe the Church has declared Fatima “worthy of belief” not “true.” Meaning there’s no reason a Catholic can’t believe in the Fatima apparitions, but neither is a Catholic required to believe in them.

 

[Techno2000]

And if there are discrepancies between these “experiences” & the Word of God, and if credence is given towards these “personal experiences” then it takes precedence OVER God’s Word.

What are these discrepancies? There is very little details about Heaven & Hell in the Bible.

 

[Techno2000]

Techno2000:

.The Catholic Church has determined that some of these visions are true, especially the ones from Fatima.

I believe the Church has declared Fatima “worthy of belief” not “true.” Meaning there’s no reason a Catholic can’t believe in the Fatima apparitions, but neither is a Catholic required to believe in them.

Well if it’s “worthy of belief” then it must be true in the Church’s eyes,it couldn’t be false , I think you’re splitting hairs.

 

[RolandThompsonGunner]

Well if it’s “worthy of belief” then it must be true in the Church’s eyes,it couldn’t be false , I think you’re splitting hairs.

No, it’s a pretty important distinction. If they meant “true” they’d say “true.”

“Worthy of belief” just means that there is nothing inconsistent with the faith and a Catholic can believe in it. But also there’s no reason a Catholic must believe it the way we must believe, say, the Immaculate Conception. It’s up to the individual.

 

[Techno2000]

Techno2000:

Well if it’s “worthy of belief” then it must be true in the Church’s eyes,it couldn’t be false , I think you’re splitting hairs.

No, it’s a pretty important distinction. If they meant “true” they’d say “true.”

“Worthy of belief” just means that there is nothing inconsistent with the faith and a Catholic can believe in it. But also there’s no reason a Catholic must believe it the way we must believe, say, the Immaculate Conception. It’s up to the individual.

How the church determines a true Marian apparition
By Junno Arocho Esteves Catholic News Service

A bishop can come to one of three conclusions: He can determine the apparition to be true and worthy of belief; he can say it is not true, which leaves open the possibility for an appeal; or he can say that at the moment, he doesn’t know and needs more help.

https://www.catholicnews.com/the-church-and-the-world-need-catholic-scouts-pope-says/

 

[Sarcelle]

Not really.

The Church just says that the message of Fatima does not contradict Church doctrine so a Catholic is free to believe it is true not that it is verifiably true.

 

[Techno2000]

Not really.

The Church just says that the message of Fatima does not contradict Church doctrine so a Catholic is free to believe it is true not that it is verifiably true.

Yes, I agree… but not even the Bible and God can be made verifiably true.

 

[RolandThompsonGunner]

A bishop can come to one of three conclusions: He can determine the apparition to be true and worthy of belief; he can say it is not true , which leaves open the possibility for an appeal; or he can say that at the moment, he doesn’t know and needs more help.

An individual bishop can not unilaterally declare new dogma. All he can do is say there is no impediment to believing it. “Worthy of belief” means “not obligatory.” There’s a reason we wouldn’t say the Resurrection is “worthy of belief” for a Catholic. It’s obligatory. That is a firm declaration of “this is true.”

Look, I’m not trying to talk you out of Fatima. There’s no reason not to believe in it. I’m just saying it’s not accurate to say “the church has declared it to be true.”

 

[Irishmom2]

And it could be that the people who “liked it” did so because of the analogy made that the stories are just that-stories. It does not mean they liked nails going into anyone’s head. It means they liked the posters comment for its logic.

 

[MichaelP3]

My apologies if it seemed that way. Re-reading my post I can see it can be seen that way. I rather meant it is concerning so many people know about it and therefore it is a “story” with some conext.

I appreciated a poster giving me information to read up on that topic which I did. Now the story is however concerning for various other reasons which I won’t get into.

Have a good day.

 

[Techno2000]

And it could be that the people who “liked it” did so because of the analogy made that the stories are just that-stories. It does not mean they liked nails going into anyone’s head. It means they liked the posters comment for its logic.

Yes, I worded it that way mean exactly that, one has to determine for themselves if these stories are true or not.

 

[Techno2000]

My apologies if it seemed that way. Re-reading my post I can see it can be seen that way. I rather meant it is concerning so many people know about it and therefore it is a “story” with some conext.

I appreciated a poster giving me information to read up on that topic which I did. Now the story is however concerning for various other reasons which I won’t get into.

Have a good day.

To tell you the truth, I only briefly read about that story on this forum years ago, with no details. It wasn’t until you ask about a source that googled it and found out it came from a beatified person.

 

[RaisedCatholic]

What are these discrepancies? There is very little details about Heaven & Hell in the Bible.

For one, either Burpo or Malarkey claimed to see “winged angel babies” in Heaven, when angelic beings are depicted as men in Scripture. Angels aren’t “born” & grow to “adult” angels like humans do on earth. They were created “as-is” by God. I read the book, “Heaven Is For Real” several years ago, and I don’t remember the details. But some of the things I read just didn’t match with Scripture. I also read “23 Minutes in Hell,” it described individual “pockets” of hellfire of people suffering, instead one large lake of fire. Plus, when unbelievers die, they go to Hades first - not Hell, which happens at the end of human history. Plus, in the man’s “experience,” the demons he saw were described as large ugly monstrous creatures, and he experienced physical pain, which would be impossible since he went there in spiritual form, and they physically tore into his “flesh” with their claws. He also stated that Jesus “rescued” him from Hell, took him above the earth & told him the reason He allowed him to experience Hell, was to tell people about it, because most people don’t believe in the reality of Hell.

There are several more examples. This are just the ones that come to mind.

 

[fhansen]

Study and pray and stop listening to this pop-mythology. It’s just nonsense, dangerous, misguided nonsense.

 

[puer.dei]

those boys born in Protestant homes (Burpo & Malarkey) who claimed to have visited Heaven

The Malarkey story was admitted to be false, years ago.

 

[Techno2000]

Sister Faustina’s Vision of Hell

“I, Sister Faustina Kowalska, by the order of God, have visited the Abysses of Hell so that I might tell souls about it and testify to its existence…the devils were full of hatred for me, but they had to obey me at the command of God, What I have written is but a pale shadow of the things I saw. But I noticed one thing: That most of the souls there are those who disbelieved that there is a hell.” (Diary 741)

The Apostle of Divine Mercy
St. Maria Faustina Kowalska
of the
Congregation of the Sisters of Our Lady of Mercy

"Today, I was led by an angel to the Chasms of Hell. It is a place of great torture; how awesomely large and extensive it is! The kinds of tortures I saw:
The First Torture that constitutes hell is:
The loss of God.
The Second is:
Perpetual remorse of conscience.
The Third is
That one’s condition will never change.
The Fourth is:
The fire that will penetrate the soul without destroying it. A terrible suffering since it is a purely spiritual fire, lit by God’s anger.
The Fifth Torture is:
Continual darkness and a terrible suffocating smell, and despite the darkness, the devils and the souls of the damned see each other and all the evil, both of others and their own.
The Sixth Torture is:
The constant company of Satan.
The Seventh Torture is:
Horrible despair, hatred of God, vile words, curses and blasphemies.
These are the Tortures suffered by all the damned together, but that is not the end of the sufferings.

Indescribable Sufferings
There are special Tortures destined for particular souls. These are the torments of the senses. Each soul undergoes terrible and indescribable sufferings related to the manner in which it has sinned.

I would have died
There are caverns and pits of torture where one form of agony differs from another. I would have died at the very sight of these tortures if the omnipotence of God had not supported me.

No One Can Say There is No Hell
Let the sinner know that he will be tortured throughout all eternity, in those senses which he made use of to sin. I am writing this at the command of God, so that no soul may find an excuse by saying there is no hell, or that nobody has ever been there, and so no one can say what it is like…how terribly souls suffer there! Consequently, I pray even more fervently for the conversion of sinners. I incessantly plead God’s mercy upon them. O My Jesus, I would rather be in agony until the end of the world, amidst the greatest sufferings, than offend you by the least sin." (Diary 741)

http://www.divinemercysunday.com/vision.htm